Would this be ok or a dealbreaker?

[Toastandstrawberryjam]

Firstly I will just say I have had some brilliant advice on here in the past (you know who you are!). I am almost 100% sure that I'm not overeacting about this but keep laying awake wondering if I am overreacting.

Brief background, married a long time, he is long term EA, would love to get out but we are currently in a situation where I will have to take kids and go as he refuses to see what has happened as an issue.

Last week in front of the DC he screamed that he was going to f*ing slit his wrists before throwing a pile of ironing around and storming downstairs.

He maintains it was just a "silly" thing to say and as such he does not need to discuss it/apologise for it.

I maintain it was the kind of thing a parent NEVER says in front of their child and that I cannot forgive him for it or his attitude towards it.

He has since visited a counsellor (after I strongly asked him to leave) but decided not to tell him this, just to say we had had an argument.

Would it be a deal breaker for you? Or am I (as he says) totally overreacting.

Often we stay for the children but when we realise the children are being hurt just as much as us then it's time to realise they deserve better.

He is on a nice cycle at the moment no doubt but it won't last. Never does.

Plan a future away from him.

I have told three people in RL. Two expressed horror at what he had said. One said it was almost understandable, he was upset, and we need to work on things. This is from a close friend. So it's not unanimous in RL either.

And I agree that there must be other things going on that aren't right. I bet this is just one of many things.

He just keeps insisting I'm overreacting and its normal to say those kind of things.

Nope it's not.

Get out, OP. For your children's sake.

My biol. mother did this to her children all the time. One is ok-ish but has had all her self confidence destroyed and lives with gnawing self-doubt. The other is fucked up and I'm seriously concerned for her mental health. The future doesn't look good for her unless she can turn around somehow.

A good deal of the problem was that their father did not leave. He stayed and this behaviour was seen as normal - this and all the other emotionally abusive behaviour. All they saw was what went on in the home and their emotions were profoundly swayed, torn and damaged.

The fear of loosing a parent is horrendous. Threats of suicide are wicked. The only reason to say you feel suicidal if if you actually are, and then you don't fucking do it in front of the children.

Being apart will give your children a stable home with you without these awful manipulations and storms. You can counteract his histrionics by your own calm home haven. It's a shit load better for them than staying and so they see that people can behave like this and other people will tolerate it.

So what of a couple of (wrong) people think this isn't a deal breaker? Have you lost trust in your own judgement so far that you are following their views rather than your own?

I'm a child protection social worker, I see this as absolutely a deal breaker, emotional abuse, and yes I'd be wanting to carry out an assessment on your family if I was told about it. Does that help at all?

It's the "normal" cycle at the moment. Where he acts as though everything is ok and I am a complete loon if I suggest otherwise. Nice cycle lasted a week and was very confusing for the children, special treats, him home in time for tea, trips to the park. It made them v happy.

It's never unanimous and you won't get unanimous.

For all you know your friend is similar at home too.

And there is a perception in society that we have to work at things. It's rare, actually, that friends will tell you you should leave. It's a huge responsibility and it can backfire badly.
So, it is very significant that two of your friends said it was unacceptable. Those are the ones you should pay attention.
NOT to the people who keep validating you to stay.

Because you do seem to really want validation to stay.

Ehric, I probably don't have faith in my own judgment, that's true and I know thats not good. But thank you so very much for what you said in the second para. I did say to him that social services would not think it was ok but he insisted they would see it as perfectly fine and not a problem and it's me with the problem.

It is not normal to talk like that in front of kids and no responsible adult would do it. He sounds utterly draining to live with. You don't need his permission or a unanimous verdict to go, though! Your post above shows how bad this is for the kids. And of course they won't be damaged by moving to a new rented house. Have you considered they might be relieved to be away from all the threats and histrionics?

One person thought it was OK out of about 20 people on this thread. And you are hanging your hat on that . They are wrong. Your H is wrong.

As someone else said you don't need a dramatic reason to leave. You don't need his permission. You don't even need to tell him you are leaving. You don't owe him anything.

But I suspect you won't take this in because you are nowhere near the right frame of mind to leave if you are desperately hanging on to the fact that you could be the one being unreasonable.

Actually it doesn't even matter how reasonable/unreasonable anyone else, including him, thinks you are. You are allowed to set your own boundaries, your own deal breakers.

I don't want to stay. I lay awake in bed wishing I could be free. He only sleeps now by holding onto me really tightly. If I try and move away I wake to find him clamped around me again like I'm his security blanket. Again today I have backache from sleeping in an uncomfortable position all night. We don't have a spare room and I tried sleeping in with the DC but they got upset and asked so many questions.

You won't be able to reason with him as he is not a reasonable person, and he never will be. Be practical and make plans to secure a future for yourself and your children.

Of course it's a dealbreaker. Along with the sustained EA, it's a huge dealbreaker. On what planet could it not be? I understand you had a tough upbringing but only you can stop the cycle.

Start proceedings to divorce. You don't need anybody's permission, approval or consent. You are an adult and you have responsiblities. Take charge now, stop being a bystander in your own life.

toast

in the light of what ehric said ... if you really do want shot of him, why don't you ring your local social work team and ask them? Then you will have absolute proof that his behaviour is very bad for them and can use your phone conversation with them to keep you strong.

You know what you need to do.

You can leave - but it is up to you to put that into action.

Why don't you call Women's Aid for advice. And maybe have a chat with your HV or GP about his behaviour. You need to get it on record with as many agencies as possible now. This could help you in future when he wants contact with the DC. You need to do this - nobody else can do it for you.

You don't need anyone else's opinion or permission to get out of this marriage. You know yourself that the marriage is intolerable. Can you honestly put up with his behaviour for years to come?

Please just take that first, brave step, phone WA or go and see a solicitor.
If you are anxious, make a list of his abusive behaviour over the years.
However the people you speak to will have had this kind of conversation many times and will help you.

Please for the sake of your own and children's sanity, get help to get out of this marriage.

Okay then since you're so desperately want to believe this is fine. Ring social services up. . Tell them all the bad and some of the good and ask them to do a child protection assessment of your family.

If it's fine then they won't have cause for concern will they?

*all good you can think of rather

ah, I see that consciously or unconsciously you are simply looking for one person, any person, to say it's ok for him to act like this and then you can (again) justify staying

it's not

and your children will be far more damaged by seeing their mother be complicit in their emotional harm than by moving into rented accommodation. That remark of yours is hugely offensive, btw

I don't think I believe that at least part of your dogged determination to subject all of you to this mindfucking is not financial and motivated by material possessions or lifestyle

sorry, I rarely say that but this is how you come across

I apologise about the rented comment. Not quite sure what I said. But I was moved around frequently as a child, different homes, schools, much upheaval and always promised myself I would not do that to my children.

I'm not materially minded, they unfortunately are because he sets a lot of store by possessions and status so they have picked up on that. I could happily live with not much at all as long as I had them.
I'm going to find and reread my comment now because I really didn't mean to offend.

Oh right I get it. Nothing against rented houses, I more meant if I move them temporarily to somewhere before I can make a permanent base. Also there are no rental properties around here so it would mean a change of area too. I totally see how that came across but it wouldn't bother me to rent. We never owned a house when I was a child so that's not a problem to me. It's more the temporaryness of it. I get how that made me sound like a snob though, sorry.

A temporary home is so much better than the 'home' they have with him.

Many of us have bought up children in rented accommodation - and guess what, they are absolutely fine and we are not 2nd class citizens. It is the attitude of others towards folk who rent which is the most unpleasant part tbh.

Toast. I know it's difficult but do just take that first step. Solicitor / Women's Aid. Once you have options it will feel so much better.

I haven't been in exactly your situation. But I have had to make that decision to step away from H and change the children's lives. It took too long to do as I was terrified of the consequences. But once you take a step, a first step it does feel so much better.

I do realise now that I could have taken that step sooner.

The man won't even let you sleep in a position you want. For fucks sake.

My father threatened heart attacks every time he got angry. Told us it would be all our fault. It really frightened us. Went on for years. I'm still bitter about it.

You have zero intention of leaving him, so this is going to continue. The poor kids will hear all of this again and again. And then they'll leave. And go on to have relationships full of dysfunctional drama.

Oh love, it's not right. It's not ok. Your beautiful children are worth so very much more.

As ever wishing you the strength to do what you know you need to do. Life will be so much better not lived on eggshells.