Would this be ok or a dealbreaker?

[Toastandstrawberryjam]

Firstly I will just say I have had some brilliant advice on here in the past (you know who you are!). I am almost 100% sure that I'm not overeacting about this but keep laying awake wondering if I am overreacting.

Brief background, married a long time, he is long term EA, would love to get out but we are currently in a situation where I will have to take kids and go as he refuses to see what has happened as an issue.

Last week in front of the DC he screamed that he was going to f*ing slit his wrists before throwing a pile of ironing around and storming downstairs.

He maintains it was just a "silly" thing to say and as such he does not need to discuss it/apologise for it.

I maintain it was the kind of thing a parent NEVER says in front of their child and that I cannot forgive him for it or his attitude towards it.

He has since visited a counsellor (after I strongly asked him to leave) but decided not to tell him this, just to say we had had an argument.

Would it be a deal breaker for you? Or am I (as he says) totally overreacting.

It's early days, but the sooner you get in a routine with him the better.

Him spending so much time with them is emotional manipulation, as he didn't do it before. I'd say a couple of days a week at best would be fine, so that you can have most of the time to relax and actually be with them too.

Yes you're right. I have always been made to feel responsible for his feelings. That's an interesting thing for me to ponder.

We have talked more as well. He has been honest about why he has done some of the things he has. What I still find saddest (for me not him) was him admitting he has always led me to believe I'm stupid, to maintain the status quo of him being older and cleverer than me. He said it made him feel better about our marriage if it wasn't equal. I wept for myself over that one, all the things I told myself I was too stupid to achieve. But actually I wasn't.

I'm so glad you've realised that your problems are down to him. Hope you have a good weekend

He is playing the repentant lover card. If it doesn't get his feet back under the table quite quickly then he'll change tack. And, yes, him suddenly being available to the children every night is a tactic too. Is he going to find a way to sort out why he treated you like that, so that he doesn't ever do anything like that again. It's something in his psyche which made him squash you down so he could feel big, so he needs to get that sorted. How? When? What is he proposing to do about that?

I think having him in the house every night is confusing for your children, as they think you've split up but you don't really seem to have. The longer that goes on, the more confused they'll be, and their behaviour is likely to remain challenging or become more challenging.

Are you seeing a counsellor? I think it would do you a power of good, and help you to suss out what, why and how, you are going to go forward.

One step at a time, Toast, one step at a time.

A thing to watch for is his manipulation of the children. My ex really really ramped things up after we'd split. He told terrible lies about me to the children and the children believed him, they still do. His need to hurt me by turning my children against me was very great.
They more I seemed to cope without him the nastier he got.

sorry, only just seen your update.
Him being there every night isnt really him 'leaving' is it - its actually him being there even more than he was when living with you, and not respecting you when you say you needed him to leave.
Its messing with your head
Its messing with the kids head
And its making sure that you dont have time to get used to him not being around, to get the strength you need to move forward, which will only come when you all have time to yourself.
As others have said - you need to sort this to a reasonable time - say 2 evenings a week if you are feeling generous, and he doesnt come in.

He takes them all out and then brings them back.

And he doesnt come in.

And a day at the weekend, where he takes them out, and brings them back (taking care to tie in any activities they may have that day).

And he doesnt come in.

All this weeping and wailing and hearts to hearts on their beds is highly toxic and manipulative.

The problem with evenings is by the time he gets here (when he goes back to normal home time!) it's youngest's bedtime. So they can't go anywhere.

This week I've told him he can put youngest to bed tonight then go (he has an exercise class at 8.30 so will go to that). Tomorrow he wants to come for dinner, which I've said is ok if he gets here at dinner time. Wed he is picking eldest up from a party and dropping her home so will have time with her (other two will be in bed). Thursday he has to not come. Friday he can come for bedtime only. He will see them at the weekend but without me there.

I'm trying to be fair to them and him.
But I feel like I'm having to arrange my life around him still.

Oh I'm having plenty of time to get used to him not being around. I'm very clear what I want now!

He really should not be coming into the house at all - let alone you cooking him dinner. He picks up from and drops off to the doorstep. No more coming in and out when he pleases. Sorry, but you need firm boundaries.

He can't pick them up in the evenings when they are going to bed? Surely it's ok for him to do bedtime one/two times a week. As long as he goes home after (which is the issue I have).

And not cooking him a special dinner, more a case of theres bolognese in the pot if you get here when I'm serving up.

IF he wanted to see them he will arrange to leave work early on those days. Thats what other NRP have to do.

And agree, a big NO to letting him come for dinner.

You are right, you are all shuffling around HIS timetable.
And you are far too nice and reasonable.
Nice and reasonable, and putting everyone before yourself is whats kept you caught up with him for so long.

I dont think he should be coming in at all. It is still showing the kids that everything is about him. He needs to show willingness to put himself out for them.

Think about the future - do you still want him at the house all the time?

I wouldnt be letting him do bedtime.

And I would make him take them out at weekend - not in the house without you there.

He won't leave work early. Never has. So that won't happen.

Why not bedtime? If DC wants him to.

Yesterday he had them at his dad's. Youngest was distraught and wanted to be home. Am trying to keep things calm for her.

Lots of NRP only have 1 night a week - I understand he hasnt got anywhere for them to stay (or has he?) and then every other weekend. This is because lots of them work and do not want to/are unable to finish work at school run time every evening, or more than once.

By law he is allowed to ask to finish early one night a week. He could do the school run. Take them some where for tea/run them to any clubs/make sure they do their homework. Later he would have them stay overnight and have to get them to school in the morning. At the moment he could drop them back at youngest's bedtime and would actually get more time with them. If he hasnt anywhere for them to stay then maybe he could do that twice a week during the week.

And every other weekend - same thing - pick up Friday, drop to school Monday or Sunday evening back with you. AND wash the uniforms on his weekend. Feed and entertain for 2 days.

At the moment he is just being Disney Dad - same as always. And restricting you and your freedom as you have to arrange your week around him.

Also you need to keep half an eye out about how often he sees them as it will have an effect upon how much maintanance he pays. Its probably best to try to sort out a practical ongoing arrangement from the start - yes he may bleat about missing out on the DCs, but he never really bothered when he was there - its manipulation to try to keep you feeling sorry for him. And if you feel sorry, you might let him back. Or just become used to coming by, seeing the girls every night, maybe a spot of dinner, and then home to his house where he is free to do whatever he likes, knowing that you are safely at home and responsible and not going anywhere.

Previous posters have had a similar and soon found the man was getting best of both worlds - all the freedom of bachelorhood, but still the best bits of being a dad. And mum was still doing all the gruntwork and having him imposing on her space, seeing what she was doing, and with no freedom to move forward at all. Im just scared thats whats being set in motion here.

At the moment I'm staying in because I want to. My eldest is old enough to babysit and I have plenty of friends who will if I ask.

There is no way he will finish that early!

For now I have control of all the money so I don't feel I'm in a position to impose strict contact. He still thinks we have a hope of fixing it. I think his attitude will change when he realises we don't.

He may HAVE to leave work early. Things have changed and he has responsibilities beyond what he wants now.

How do you see it playing out then, OP? If he wont leave work early? Do you see this bedtime/dinner thing panning out to be a permanent thing? If not, then when will it stop if you have set a precident of him doing it - the guilt trip he will put on you to continue facilitating him seeing the kids at his convenience will be massive. And why would he change it if his needs are being met.

Im not trying to play devils advocate, but you have split up and sad as it is, it will be easier for the children to get into some kind of fixed, stable routine to allow them to cope with it and move onwards.

Not to say that I am not incredibly pleased and incredibly happy that you have got this far and are obviously resolute in your feelings of not getting back with him.
Just in case I missed saying that.
You have been incredible.

He is a manipulator and will manipulate at every turn. Have you sorted some counselling, with someone really experienced in abuse. Just to help you unpick and stickiness that he throws at you

What I see happening next is him realising I'm not going back to him and him getting angry. Or him getting bored of coming here every night and then going back to his dad's. Which is why I'm now going for uber reasonableness. I've told him it's mutual why we aren't together. Agreed that some of it was my fault. It's not what I believe but it's simpler to just be very calm.

Also I know what he wants is for me to get angry so he can start blaming me. I have years of practice of keeping calm so that isn't going to happen.

If I can keep this as amicable as possible then I will do. Another reason I like him being here is that I know what he is saying to them. Once he takes them out I have no doubt he will start trying to manipulate them. I'd like them to be stronger and more resilient when that happens.

I could well be doing this all wrong. I've never had a situation to deal with like this. I'm just doing the best I can at the moment.

I can certainly see your tactic. How long before he cracks?
Are you able to access some extra outside support for you and for the DCs - I think you could all do with some independant perspective to off load to. Especially the little one.

Did you ever manage to speak to WA? Would they be able to handhold you through the next few weeks?

I imagine that when I go to the counsellor with him on Thursday the niceness from him will stop!!

School counselling services have been notified for youngest and middle DC and are working with them. Eldest doesn't want outside help but is talking lots to me and to her best friend. I spoke to WA who gave me local numbers.

Tbh I feel clearer than I have for years. I'm very sad that he's sad but that's allz

You sound in a totally different headspace.

You are not responsible for keeping him happy. Not at your own and your children' expense.

Its OK to be sad, and its OK for the children to be sad. Better sad for a while than damaged for life. You have done a good thing by getting out, even though the change and the break is difficult for everyone.

Good luck with Thursday

I'm not sad for me. I feel very guilty for feeling happy tbh. He is devastated and I have caused that.

I wouldn't say the DC are particularly sad. Obviously they could be storing it up for a later date but they are coping far better than I thought they would.

well, Thats all good then.

You've had years and years of being sad and him being quite happy.

You havent caused his devastation, the devastation is because he has had to stop. Because he has finally been called to task about his disgusting bahaviour. Its like the cheater crying - not because he has destroyed your trust, but because he has been caught. Its crying because the party is over. He is crying the tears of self pity, despite the bollocks undoubtedly coming out of his mouth. If he had been a lovely, loving, respectful, equal partner, who valued his good fortune to have such a wonderful wife and family, Im sure you would have been overjoyed, and the love and effort you have put in over the years would have been paid back a thousand times. And you wouldnt be asking him to leave. But he was an insiduous emotionally, and more ways shit, and he is just reaping what he sowed.

You haven't caused his unhappiness, he bought it on himself. Please don't feel guilty, this is not your fault.