Is he "just not that into me".

[jessmay]

I'm 35 and so is he. We met online and he was the one chasing me. From the very beginning he was always quite hard to pin down. He leaves for work at 6am and usually doesn't get home until 11pm. He has a mad, city job.

We have conflicting schedules, and we both travel a lot for work too. At first I was not that fussed that I didn't see him every day or that he didn't call as much as previous BFs have but now I am starting to fall in love with him it's beginning to bother me.

I'm not sure if I am being needy or if he's "just not that into me".

He texts me every day, but doesn't call every day. He does spend every day he has off with me, but doesn't call really ever in between. When one of us is travelling, he doesn't Skype or call really at all.

Last night was new year and we're apart with our respective families. He did invite me to spend it with him, but I wasn't able to as I had previous plans.

He texted me in the evening to say he missed me, and sent some photos throughout the night. He didn't call me, which I found odd on new years eve. He did text again just after midnight to wish me happy new year and to say he loved and missed me. So I decided not to be a fanny and texted him at 12.30am to say I just wanted to hear his voice.

He called around 3am and spoke to me for two minutes and told me he had hardly any battery and he was off all day today and would call me for a long chat.

It's 18.39 and he's texted good morning and that's about it. I can see he's on whatsapp and facebook putting up photos and things and I just can;t help but feel it's a bit odd that he isn't wanting to ring me.

Is it me being silly, are some people just rubbish on the phone / texts or do you think I am investing my heart into a man who just doesn't like me that much?

If I ask him, he just say he is a bad communicator, he works mental hours and is always racing around to get stuff done and he gets quite annoyed that I don't see that.

I just feel rejected and can't help feeling rejected. I don't know what to do! It keeps putting me on a downer.

beagles they choose to do that job. I save my sympathies for those forced to take minimum wage zero hours jobs which put just as much if not more stress on relationships.

I've read the whole thread and honestly I just don't think it should be this hard for you Jess.

Maybe it's because he's wrong for you, or maybe it's because you need more of a break after your ex to heal/be single and figure out what you want.

Either way, I think you need to move on.

When it's the right one/time, there should be no second guessing, no questioning how you/he feels and no game playing. Just straightforward wanting to spend time together and build something good.

Also, miming to love songs made me want to vomit a bit, sorry!! Who does that?!

He says he is in love with me

To be honest, Jess, I'd be concerned by someone prepared to say this when I don't think you know each other properly. I'm sorry if I'm making an inaccurate assumption, but I don't think it sounds like either of you ever let your guard down, spent real quality time together over an extended period of time, got to know each other sufficiently for him to say he is "in love".

Those are words that are easy to say, maybe to sound convincing or get his point across?

Unfortunately when a relationship is so much like a rollercoaster ride that too many words have been said, and not sufficient time has elapsed for those words to 'bed in' and really mean something, it can take the edge-off, so that when you get down to the normal day-to-day living (which I presume is where you ultimately want to be with a man, in a stable long-term relationship), it can feel like a big bump-down-to earth, an anti-climax.

I still tend towards my gut feeling that it's a good time for you to close this chapter.

That said, it was extremely positive to have cleared the air and got rid of unanswered questions that could have hung over you.

I agree with daisychain.

And i think he is saying i love you to keep his options open.

I don't see how somebody leaving love letters for a loved one is grim?

The thing that really stands out for me in your conversation is that it's all about him - how he feels, his life, his needs, his wants.

Some extracts from your post about the conversation you had are quite revealing.

he's been genuinely very busy
I'm sure he is, we all are in our own ways, but we find time to communicate properly with the person we're seeing.

He said he is very stressed at work
He still finds time to be on Facebook etc though.

He said that it was me and not him who created a situation where our relationship was more casual.
Oh. So this situation is all your fault now, is it, and he's completely blameless is he?

He said that was what I wanted before, and if it's changed I can't just demand he changes to suit me.
I don't see any evidence of you 'demanding' anything. Surely relationships evolve as they go along, so it's natural that you get more serious as time goes on? What he's saying here is he likes it casual and wants it to stay that way.

He said he is confused since I started being more "full on"
Well, all he had to do was ring you and talk it through. But he doesn't want to because he likes it staying casual and he's trying to get you to go back to being less 'full on'.

He also said if I want to talk to him, I should just call him
Oh, so now you have to call him? Even though he's the one that mentioned several times that he would call you on a certain day, then didn't bother. Even though he stated he wanted to hear your voice, but did nothing about it? Looks like you're the one who has to do all the work and make all the effort, Jess. That's because he likes things the way they are - casual - so any additional effort has to come from you, not from him.

He says I made him angry
WTF?! Red flag.

he says I am also cold
Again, WTF?! Red flag.

he said he does find it very hard to express what he feels and I shouldn't get angry because that's who he is.
He's telling you who he is. Listen.

he did make it clear to me that I have kind of ballsed it up
Again, he's making this situation all your fault. He's also paving the way for things not progressing or evolving any further, which will then also be your fault.

He said he was deeply hurt by the constant rejection
What about the rejection you've felt by him promising to call then not, and his vague, non-committal texts?

He says I have to think very carefully about whether or not I really do love him and want him and want a future, because he does not want to invest his emotions any further if I don't.
He's not invested any emotions as far as I can see, unless you count him paying lip service by suddenly saying he's in love with you because you brought up the 'where is this going?' type conversation. Again, he's paving the way for things not progressing any further and he's making his excuses in advance (which will, of course, be your fault).

He's turned this whole situation into something that's your fault and is now saying it's solely down to you to solve the issues and sort it out. Thing is, he's also saying that you can't do that because he can't change how he feels just to suit you. So you're in an impossible situation - damned if you do, damned if you don't. By saying the things he has, he's keeping you dangling just enough so that you don't end it, but isn't willing to contribute very much effort at all into making it work. So where do you go from here?

It's absolutely standard that he's told you he's in love with you as it keeps you on the hook. I was going to predict that he'd say that yesterday but I thought he might bugger off without a squeak.

You say you're confused because your relationship with your ex seemed 'perfect' - easy and relaxed and you never argued but he turned out to be an arsehole underneath.

It doesn't therefore follow that a relationship that is difficult and stressful is therefore right. My husband never drives me 'insane' and we've been together for over 15 years.

They're both wrong in different ways.

You should be looking for the easiness of the relationship with your ex, but minus the underlying arsehole element.

If there is any thread between the two, I get the impression you think your current guy is nicer than he is, fail to see how self-serving he is, and miss key indications about his personality and motivations. It sounds as if you're quite swayed by 'les belles paroles'.

But - in the end this is the net and I've never met either of them.

Superb analysis, Kitty.

Just a random guy's perspective here ... I understand where he is coming from. It must be emotionally tough to feel second best even in a casual relationship, and I think that he is wise and prudent to leave some distance between you two. Distance that you will need to start closing first before he meets you halfway. Anyway, he sounds like a decent and intelligent chap overall imo.

For what it's worth, I think what you need to work out is what you want and need. If he can't give you that, you move on (easy to say, I know, my friends always say it to me). I've been in those situations where you just aren't getting what you need, and feel needy - as if having needs was a bad thing. It isn't, there is nothing wrong with wanting to talk to a bf in more than once in 9 days, I'd say that was normal and healthy. It's a question for him in terms of whether he'll meet you. Remember he's chosen the job he has for a reason and can't blame you for that (sounds like he's a work alcoholic), he needs to work out what he wants and be making clear steps to get there.

Jess, have followed the thread but not commented til now. Three things strike me:

1. You haven't recovered from your ex yet. You won't be ready to approach a new relationship in a fresh and healthy state of mind until you do.
2. Whether or not this guy really is a nice guy after all, his job is a huge problem if you want a family soon. That alone would be enough to end this for me if I were in your position.
3. I don't think you actually want him. You've indicated you don't fancy him and for the first half of your very short relationship you had no interest at all in him. I think maybe you panicked a bit and only changed your mind for fear this was your last chance?

All in all this is a no brainer to me. Unfortunately you haven't got loads of time if you want a family so I wouldn't waste much more head or heart space debating this - finish it.

I think what you need to work out is what you want and need. If he can't give you that, you move on

I think that's exactly it. I'm not going to sit here and try and analyse what he thinks or feels because I honestly don't know. I'm going to work out the above in my own mind and then decide if I want those things from . Maybe he does want me, maybe not, but the only way to know is to ask / try but first take time to be sure it is what I also want.

ThatsNotAKife
I haven't recovered from my ex fully yet, but I am feeling a lot better. I think the last phase of recovery for me is going to involve letting someone else in. I have done the crying, done the anger, done the ranting and done the therapy for over a year now and feel very clear in my head but admittedly still wounded and fearful of trusting again.

I agree completely about his job, and I am genuinely going to think through your final question. I'm not going to spend ages umming and ahhing but just a few days in a bit of quiet self examination and observation of how I feel.

Sometimes people do just grow on you. I know that's not sexy or the fairytale, but that might just be what's happened. I hope, at the minimum, I keep this person as a close friend because I do have strong feelings there.

Jess, I think if you end up deciding he's not right for you it would be simpler and more sensible to make a clean break rather than keeping him as a friend. You only know him 6 months after all.

However I suspect that's not where you're headed. You seemed very certain things were over a few days ago but it seems he got the better of you in your last conversation and has managed to convince you this is all your fault. I think he has put the wind up you with his warnings and you're getting cold feet now.

It really, truly shouldn't be this hard at this stage Jess. I don't mean it should be a fairytale but at 6 months, and if it's got legs, it should be a he'll of a lot better than this.

I personally would not choose to keep him as a friend. It would be so easy to rely on him as an emotional crutch and the whole cycle would start up again.
You don't need a " rescuer", you need friends, a good support network. No amount of counselling can make you whole again.
Sometimes it just serves to dredge up all the shit we have long since buried.
I think it does have it's place, but not in this case.
The thing is this fella can " talk the talk" but can't " walk the walk".
I've been in similar situations myself; piecing together what few good times we have shared and replacing the voids with the hope we would live happily ever after.
Nobody is perfect, you don't need to analyse this man, it serves no purpose but to give you false hope that you will have a future together which I doubt you will.
Sorry.

I'm pretty easy to sway back and forth, but that's why I tend to take my time and really evaluate before acting. I do that in a restaurant too.

I know it shouldn't be this hard, I do, I am listening :)

Tbh, Blue, counselling's a very wise choice after a relationship with a sociopath. In general, too, it's supposed to help you understand yourself which is rarely a bad thing :)

Agree that it's not strictly necessary to analyse Jess's bf/ex - or no more than he's already been analysed already!

Already already Must be bedtime already!

I think we can all pretty much guarantee that he is giving this thing nowhere near as much head-space and analysis as you are, Jess.

I still can't believe he texted you to point out that the two of you hadn't spoken yet...

He is telling you loud and clear who he is. The more this continues, the more it looks like a whole lot of round-peg-into-square-hole forcing.

You can twist and turn him to fit you, so that you have someone to partner up with in you mid 30s. But that being the case, you will also have plenty of years to reflect back and possibly regret it, too.

I tend to think it's better to regret what might (or might not) have been, than to regret what is.

Ok since his last conversation with you and somebody else breaking it down on here and the fact he's since blamed you for all the negative stuff going on between you now screams red flags!

He hasn't taken any responsibility for even one thing that has happened.

Shame - I was pegging on you working it out with him I now stand correct.

He's a cock.

You seem to be beating yourself up for not "letting him in", but it could be that this was entirely sensible given the limited emotional and time commitment on offer from him.

And perhaps he was your choice of next relationship after a bad breakup because his job etc meant he would be inaccessible.

He isn't your friend, he is a bf. It seems unlikely he will change his job, priorities or contact style.

Yeah I second (third?) the friend thing. He's not your friend and if you break up make it a clean break!

I can't find anything where you wrote about just being friends with him but quite a few posters have mentioned it, so I'm going to echo them and say it's unwise to stay friends if you split. Otherwise the lines stay blurred, and that's not what anyone needs.

I re-read your most recent posts and found this which you'd written: I have never met anyone more infuriating. He drives me insane sometimes, completely up the wall and there are things that annoy me or that would need to change.
Do you think this is a good basis for a relationship? He drives you insane and there are things that would need to change - he's already told you he won't change just because you've decided you now like him, so why continue a relationship with someone who annoys and infuriates you when you know full well he won't change (and indeed, why should he?). When in a relationship you should accept the person as they are now, not the potential them who they may or may not become, because therein lies the path to disappointment, and divorce.

Please don't settle just because you're 35 and want children quite soon. Desperation based on things like your circumstances/age/finances is not a good basis for a relationship and stops you from seeing the wood for the trees. You've already said you're financially stable, so could consider going parenthood alone using donor IVF or other assisted methods if you don't meet the right man for you.

You have choices here. Use them wisely.

Looking at it from his point of view (because we should do that... right?) it must be extremely hard to be thought of as second best. Jess has admitted that more or less and if the genders were reversed, the posts would be very different. You can't blame this bloke for holding back, given the circumstances, surely...

As jess so rightly says, she has to work out what she wants before anything can happen. I think he has been quite patient really, and he was confused when she suddenly came on strong, because after all he was second best wasn't he... He knew where he stood when she was still upset about her ex, and then suddenly it all changes and she wants more from him. Anyone would wonder what's going on. Just a different perspective and I don't think he's a cock. KingoftheBongo a male poster echoes what I have said - maybe I have a male way of looking at things!

Oh and by the way - YOU didn't balls this up.

HE ballsed it up.

He saw a great woman that he knew he'd have little chance of scoring in happy times.

But she was broken hearted and sad, and he decided to go for the "help her through her heartbreak" option.

It's bullshit to say that he was upset about being second best and confused by your gradual change of feelings. That's what he was counting on all along.

He was never really your friend. He was always a suitor in waiting, hoping to finally reap the benefits of his support and encouragement.

And then, just as you were about to fall for him, he decides to pull back and knock the stability he had helped you to find.

Why?

Maybe it was ego - when you finally came around he wanted to punish you for not immediately seeing how great he was.

Maybe it was strategic negging - he wanted you, but ultimately wanted you a bit desperate. But he underestimated you and thought you would make yesterday's call much earlier.

Whatever it was, he came within a hair's breadth of getting what he supposedly wanted. And he blew it.

The problem with the "nice guy" strategy, is that you have to actually be s nice guy to fully pull it off.