DH is a bit Girly/Disorganised - Anyone Else Have One of these?

[JessieJJJ]

...and how to cope, because its driving me mad?

This week for example, we went to the cinema, I booked the tickets, but it was a new cinema and we couldn't find it. This was after a minor drama where he lost his jacket. So we were wandering about the town, looking for it. He wouldn't ask anyone, so I had to approach 3 passers by to ask for directions, but by then he had wandered off. He wouldn't answer his phone so by the time he eventually stumbled across it, we had missed the first 40 minutes of the film.

Then after the film had ended, he had lost his car keys in the cinema. Fortunately someone had handed them in, but not before we had searched the entire cinema and I had been accused of "taking them".

We then went away in the car for a couple of days. I was going to book the first night's accommodation in a hotel but he asked me not to, as he didnt' want to be tied down. So I ended up paying nearly double to stay in the very same hotel as the on the door price was more expensive than the internet. I said he could do the accommodation for the second night, but we couldn't find anywhere, and were driving around for about 3 hours looking. A lot of places were closed and eventually we only found somewhere by pulling up at a tourist information board, me phoning various numbers on my phone and getting someone to open up a self catering apartment. DH's phone had ran out of power so he couldnt' do any phoning. He then sulked for most of the next day because he ended up paying £100 to stay in a self catering apartment for one night - he literally wouldn't speak to me or answer any questions until about 3pm.

We took it in turns to drive home, neither of us like Tom Toms but I am very good at map reading, so I gave him good directions when he was driving. As soon as we swapped, he gave me several wrong directions involving lengthy detours off the motorway into small villages, etc.. Even when we were visiting an attraction, he stood next to a massive sign saying "Exit" and announced "I'm really lost now, I can't find my way out".

He works as an engineer so should be quite practical, and he is only 45...but he seems to specialise in putting things on upside down or the wrong way round, you would think the law of change would mean he would be wrong maybe only 50% of the time but no, he bucks that trend. If you say "take the first exit at the roundabout" he is more likely to randomly take the third exit, if you say "go left" you cannot trust him not to go right.

It might sound funny but its actually incredibly stressful for me, as if I don't keep a constant watch on him, he might wander off and get lost. And driving in the dark and heavy rain late at night looking for a way back to the motorway isn't much fun. But he's quite rude with it?

Jessie
Very good luck with the CBT
I'd love to know how it goes in case it would help my incredibly scatty dh and dd. Not something I'd thought of.
I will be over the moon if you start a new thread for it....

I am surprised that no one has called the OP out on bemoaning the lack of sex when it causes her DH pain. No one should have to endure painful sex.

Cheesebuster give them time! One poster did actually say "Do you scratch him during sex, Jessie?* in a very reprimanding tone.

Husband-scratching demon that I am.

FloraFox You have also said you have to take the role of the man in your relationship.

What I actually said was that, because he avoided his share of role-taking in some aspects of the marriage, I felt that I had to take the role of two people. It is a heterosexual relationship, he is a man and I am a woman. That's what I meant by taking the role of the man.

You can try as hard as you like to attribute a sexist intention to that, but there is not one there. I am guessing also that if it, or indeed the word "girly" were that objectionable, mumsnet HQ would have changed the thread title, which of course they can do.

There would also be legislation passed preventing the use of such words in such contexts. But there isn't. And of course a crime requires proof of intention. So you are pretty stuck whatever way you try to twist it. And some posters are trying very, very hard to twist it.

Is this still going on? I mean do any of these word-obsessed people have any friends in real life actually it was sinking into oblivion before you revived it with yet another offensive diatribe

That's what I meant by taking the role of the man you managed to frame it in an offensive way whatever your 'intent'

HQ couldn't change the title without making the thread meaningless, due to the many valid objections to your vile offensive language and attitudes. The thread stands because of the discussion which has arisen I would surmise, although I personally have thought from the outset that you were on a wind up.

"Fey" - does that describe his behaviour better? It's the one I favour.

I wouldn't begin to know how to disentangle the relationship of two such complex and opinionated characters, let alone comment on it.

It has however made for some very fascinating reading!

a crime requires proof of intention

Nope.

Your husband’s problems sound worse than “mild”. Most of the people here who have recognised your husband’s behaviour in their own relatives, have relatives with major long-term cognitive or neurological problems - not necessarily degenerative ones like your husband’s family, but still serious ones such as dyspraxia. And no-one at all has said “oh yes, my husband is perfectly normal but he mislays his jacket, spends hours obsessively looking it and then blames me for hiding it”!

You say he has a very good job so I am curious about how he copes at work. Is he able to navigate a car for work, or does he never have to drive anywhere unfamiliar? If he can navigate fine for work then yes maybe you’re talking laziness and ineptitude. But if he can’t, then there’s something more going on. Do you think he succeeds at work because he tries harder there, or because his work doesn’t require him to do things like navigate a car, or because he is so good at his job that colleagues will forgive his weaknesses and “fill in” for him? Or a mix?

I am also wondering – how do you think that CBT would help your husband (or other scatty people)? CBT is commonly used for anxiety and depression, and also for PTSD, OCD, panic, eating and sleep disorders. But poor timekeeping, forgetfulness, disorientation, distraction – I’ve never heard it recommended for those. And as for not considering other people’s views - well good luck with that I’m not advising against it, as far as I know CBT is not contra-indicated for any of those problems and there’s nothing to lose. And maybe just talking openly to a rational and sympathetic outsider would help him.

What I think is that your DH has two problems – he has some kind of undiagnosed but non-trivial neurological / cognitive problem and he also has some dysfunctional ways of coping, such as acting helpless and blaming you. His poor coping strategies have been picked up from his family and are deeply ingrained and unlikely to change. The trouble is that he isn’t going to find better ways of coping until he acknowledges both the potential cognitive/neurological problem and the need to treat you better, and takes responsibility for finding better coping strategies. It seems very unlikely (to me anyway) that he will ever do that. And I don’t honestly see what you can do about it, other than distance yourself from him.

*LittleMissMarker thanks for your considered post.

You ask Is he able to navigate a car for work, or does he never have to drive anywhere unfamiliar? If he can navigate fine for work then yes maybe you’re talking laziness and ineptitude.

He does have to drive for work, often to the other end of the country in hire cars or travel internationally by plane, learn new systems extremely quickly and fix problems. He manages fine - he is considered particularly good at this. Presumably he doesn't spend hours lost, driving around in circles that he doesn't tell me about - my guess is that with work, he simply plans ahead, follows that plan and executes it. Whereas for a holiday with me, he does no planning at all, so if I try to "chill" (as suggested by another poster) it will literally end up as driving in circles lost, late at night, until I solve the problem.

His colleagues don't fill in for him - he is senior to most of them, and from what he tells me about him, he is far less inept than some of them!

Regarding the CBT: firstly, its about the only type of therapy I think I could get him to agree to going to, and secondly, I hope that it will help him review in some way his behaviour, and possibly lead on to further action that may be more specifically tailored. He is reasonably good at listening to one on one expert advice and following it. A bit like a bridge, or the first step on a bridge, if you like. I have got him an appointment (in a few weeks' time, the soonest I could get), but that's as far as my involvement will be. I used to run around after him far more, I got fed up with it and I am not doing any more than that. Full stop.

he also has some dysfunctional ways of coping, such as acting helpless and blaming you. His poor coping strategies have been picked up from his family and are deeply ingrained and unlikely to change.

Well done on identifying that. Acting helpless. I am pretty sure that his father does it too, he seems to have taken it to the extreme and gave up working while still quite young and barely leaves the house. No-one in his family seems to find this strange at all, in fact they are all rather prone to similar patterns of behaviour, with a couple of exceptions. Of course I found them quite charming at first and then familiarity kind of lifts the veil from your eyes a little bit. You are very perceptive and explaining it better than I did from being closer to the problem. He is worse than he used to be, and gets worse when I am not with him all the time. Its a bit like if you can imagine a person living on their own getting into bad habits and doing strange things like hoarding (just an example, he doesn't do that too much), which seem totally illogical to most people but to them seem quite logical.

The trouble is that he isn’t going to find better ways of coping until he acknowledges both the potential cognitive/neurological problem and the need to treat you better, and takes responsibility for finding better coping strategies.

Probably.

You have been very helpful before, but its incredibly unprofessional to diagnose someone without examination. I don't have a disabled husband (he hasn't been diagnosed), and if mild ASD is always considered a disability, then you are going to have to diagnose at least half the UK population (if not more), for which there aren't resources or the will. In fact, there might barely be anyone left who is not disabled, if you consider common character failings to be disabilities. If indeed he does have ASD and is not just a product of a rude and rather useless upbringing or have early onset of another more serious condition. That doesn't make me "disablist", just not as obsessed with disability and trying to label people as disabled as some of you on here. You are being incredibly patronising and if you cannot understand why someone functioning in a well paid job would not want a classification well into adulthood or to use that classification in any sense or form, then I sincerely hope that you do not work in the medical profession.

OP, 'enabling his disabilities' weren't my words, I was quoting the poster ralgex whom I was replying to. It may have been clearer if I had used quote marks. In my previous post I described your husband's issues as 'significant problems', no more than that.

Just to be clear: I am not and have never claimed to 'diagnose' your husband, I'm not quite sure where you got that idea from.

The question of whether a mild ASD spectrum disorder should be regarded as a 'disability' is a complex and interesting one. One I considered raising with Ralgex and decided a) I didn't have time and b) the thread has already been derailed enough as it is.

The Equality Act of 2010 (which replaced the Disability Discrimination Act of 2005 in providing protection and legal rights for disabled people) defines disability as follows:

"The Act defines a disability as a physical or mental impairment which has a substantial and long-term (i.e. has lasted or is likely to last for at least twelve months) adverse effect on a person’s ability to carry out normal day-to-day activities."

Mild ASD disorders may qualify as a 'disability', but how an individual chooses to define their issues is entirely up to them.

And re the poster who asked me if I scratched him during sex. No, I don't. I mean fair do's if that is your thing but its not mine. I cannot imagine what part of my anatomy does scratch him to be perfectly honest, but that is what he complains of, or that it hurts or he just goes "ouch ouch ouch" at ahem the moment of inception. I don't for one moment believe he is suffering any real kind of pain. He's also about twice the size of me so its not as if I'm flattening the poor bugger or anything although from the carry on he does you would think he was a fragile kitten. Its very off-putting, personally I think its to do with lack of sexual confidence on his part. He says I don't like sex, which to some extent is true - I don't enjoy it with him one bit. But he is very non-threatning - lets just not go down that avenue if you don't mind because that's a whole other thread.

Thanks for explaining Twinklestein. I'm kind of against labelling people unless they have a medical diagnosis behind it. There are surely a number of people out there with significant personality disorders who have not been diagnosed, and its not really acceptable to go around labelling them as psychopaths, etc., and I have no idea how much of this is due to his upbringing, any ASD, any undiagnosed condition or disease (hopefully not), quite possibly a combination of two out of those three. I don't even want to get drawn in it to that extent. I cannot help thinking about his father - to me, he shows no signs whatsoever of ASD but is simply a spectacularly unmotivated individual, so how his almost total inertia and that people should look after him arose, I have no idea. I do think referring to my "disabled husband" is putting the cart before the horse. And I would really appreciate if posters could not start on about their agenda of this being disablist. It is not, and undermines proper disability discrimination.

Really Jessie you and DH don't sound very compatible at all. Have you looked at separating for a trial period? You sound very down to earth and capable and personality wise the opposite end of the scale to DH. It's not a crime not to enjoy being with someone and going separate ways.

Contempt for your "D"H oozes from your posts. Your relationship seems bleak and undermining for both of you.

LittleMissMarker

I am also wondering – how do you think that CBT would help your husband (or other scatty people)? CBT is commonly used for anxiety and depression, and also for PTSD, OCD, panic, eating and sleep disorders. But poor timekeeping, forgetfulness, disorientation, distraction – I’ve never heard it recommended for those.

I have to agree.

Although there exists specialist CBT for ASD spectrum disorders. If that were the husband's problem, then such specialist CBT may be useful as the therapist is trained to deal with common issues such as anxiety, daily living skills etc, and will be familiar with all aspects of ASD issues (including 'poor timekeeping, forgetfulness, disorientation, distraction').

But to identify the most relevant type of therapy, he first needs more information as to what precisely his problems are. Before that can happen he has to accept that there's a problem.

What I actually said was that, because he avoided his share of role-taking in some aspects of the marriage, I felt that I had to take the role of two people

No, you didn't. You said you had to take on a more masculine role. Do keep up, dearie. They are your practically incoherent ramblings after all.

It could easily be that he's just a bit dyslexic. If that's the case all he needs is systems. So a place to put his keys when he enters the house, his own check list for holidays, an on going to do list he's made on the wall,

You also need to let him fall flat in his face. So leave the stuff in the car/his coat/emergency B&B arrangements as issues for him to resolve.

I'm only suggesting this because I am the same and need systems, lists, clear self organisation, no clutter

Sounds like me and I have adhd. My ex used to think I was deliberately being stupid or lazy when it wasn't that at all.

Hello jessiejjj,
I think somewhere in this thread you were asked what you wanted. I have missed your answer, if there was one.
However reading all your posts you frankly are not getting much out of this relationship.
If you are not happy, if you don't like sex with your partner, if in fact (as has been suggested) you don't admire your partner but actually you (..... Now what word should go here?) him.
Why stay together?
Will it get better, will you slowly get happy, like sex with him. I don't think so.
So my suggestion is a calculated, responsible and hopefully not acrimonious split.

I think the massive problems my df have with organisation makes them stressed and anxious, so CBT could be great for helping them sail along mentally and feel less bogged down.

Good Luck with it Jessie and thanks again for the idea

I do agree that systems could help violet but the big marital war seems to be over who is going to put these systems in place? Who will write all those lists? If Jessie's husband even accepts that he needs a system at home he seems to thinks it’s her job to do it for him. And she (not unreasonably) disagrees. Letting him fall down is not a solution because his disorganisation affects her too. He even refused to let her book accommodation in advance so they both ended up driving for hours looking for a place to stay – well what fun is that on a holiday?

And besides all that, he also takes his feelings out on Jessie and blames her for his own mistakes. It’s not enough to say, he made a mistake and is frightened and angry with himself. Taking his fear and anger out on Jessie is corrosive and to me that's the real marriage-breaker. In her place, if he would not take full responsibility for controlling himself and finding ways to recognise and manage his own anxieties/mistakes/cognitive issues without taking them out on me, then I would be out the door.