AIBU to want my christmas tree back?

[AnotherRandom]

I am shaking with rage at the moment. My husband has taken down the Christmas tree. There is a back story which I have to give.

I have always celebrated Christmas even though I'm not a Christian. I love this time of the year, it is my favourite. My family have always done the celebrations so to me it is normal and part of life.

He converted to Islam over a year ago and told me yesterday that either I take the tree down or he will. This is because he said it is a pagan tradition (I know it's origins) and idol worship to have it in the house and it is against his religion.

I explained to him, felt more like justify to him, my choice but he wouldn't agree.

I returned home to find it gone. It's nowhere to be found in the house. I've checked the garage, loft, shed and any place I could think of. I don't know what he's done with it. I am so upset :(

Aibu to want to have the tree up? I even tried to compromise and said I would only have it up for a week in December. He said no. My daughter was confused and asked where the tree has gone :( she helped me decorate it this year too and it's all gone. What a shit day.

I agree, Hissy I'm so glad you got out and are able to share your experiences here.

I'm genuinely NOT fabulous or anything like it. good grief no!

I am an ordinary woman who has - for one reason or another - found herself in the presence of bloody awful people.

I didn't post that much here about the ins and outs until the end of my relationship. When he went, i opened up to MN and the support here both on the boards and by PM was amazing. THAT'S why I'm here now.

You'd have all been shouting at me if I had posted anything from my relationship at the time. You'd have each had a point, but what you need to know is that as a victim of DV/Abuse if you tell me to get out at the wrong time, i will run from you and TO my abuser. it is what I feel safest with. Even if I know this is wrong, it is what I am conditioned to do. You can only help victims of abuse when they are ready to be helped. this IS the most frustrating part of it, but it's NOT the victims fault.

What I did was nothing. In the end I just let him leave. All I did was what I had to do, on my terms when I could. I know that every woman who packs up her DC and her stuff and leaves her abuser is WAY braver than I was.

Random You are in danger, you know this. You have to be honest with yourself about that risk, and make sure that you are truthful with yourself at all times. The Truth. TRUTH.... it's a life saver

His 'nice' act is an act. he's been rumbled by his parents and that is why he's modifying, not because YOU asked him to. He is however holding you responsible for his abuse of you and your dd... you are not.

Please go to your parents and think. just think. You know where we are... (((HUG))))

He did however say that I need to be careful not to cause arguments or escalate them. I should try and keep calm to stop things from getting heated

Or what? Exactly?

You know this is an actual threat, don't you? Why are you staying in this house with this man?

OP, if at all possible, and I'm sure that it will be, keep this thread to remind you of the course of action open to you, as detailed by so many others with first-hand knowledge, including the state benefits you'll be entitled to and which you'll receive. I think you'd made mention of the money aspect up thread?

And it needs keeping, also, to reinforce just how your oh is the abuser he clearly is.

You came here to tell about a trashed Christmas tree. On reflection, when you're away and in a safe place I'm sure that you'll come to realise that the trashed tree, your wake-up call, was the Very Best Christmas Present EVVER.

I'm bowing out of this thread now, as I've nothing more to add, so want to take this opportunity to send heartfelt wishes to you and your daughter for your new life which is there waiting for you.

Hissy knows what she is talking about. And I too have walked your path, and split precisely because no matter what happened to me, I didn't want my little girl to grow up with this as he view of normal. She was just 2. Now he frightens her, and she has recently, at 13, cut contact (it was intermittent and supervised, and included a 3 year gap) but if I had stayed she wouldn't have had that instinct of fear, she would have normalised the temper and misogygeny, she would have molded her behaviour to accommodate his temper, to not 'start and argument' and would be looking for a boyfriend who she could recreate the 'perfect' childhood that she had to emulate.
I left for her, and I am thankful that she gave me the incentive to do so. I was so lost in the mind fiddle, of putting him at the forefront of my every thought and action, because he had trained me to consider him first, that I couldn't see what I had become and how small I had become.
Surrounded by the chaos of his making it was all I could do to function and raise my child - thinking of more was beyond me. Luckily I had family at hand ready to step in and remove him or I don't know how long he would have hung on.
The religion is, as others say, a red herring. He hates women. He may love the sex. But he is a misogynist to the core.
If you later, when you are safe, study the religion, you will see where he is twisting it to fit his cause, which is the suppression of his wife, justified by God. You are aware also that some interpretations of the Koran do say that if you are defiant that he should beat you, so don't think that him holding his temper is going to be for long - I imagine that he will chose the interpretation that says beat, rather than softly admonish.

Ordinary women can be fabulous, hissy x

But you are wonderful Hissy, you've taken the time to share your experiences in the hope of helping another woman.

I believe it's said that two women are murdered each week by their partners

Random I really don't mean to deliberately frighten you, but I'm extremely worried that you'll suddenly disappear from this thread, and that we'll all read about another poor woman it's happened to and agonise over whether it's you. We all think this kind of thing happens to "someone else" but please, please listen to all those who are telling you this man is extremely dangerous

If you struggle with leaving for your own sake, I beg you to do it for your little daughter before it's too late

Hi Random, not sure if you're still checking this. Just want to say hope you are ok, and that you are continuing to gather strength and happy Christmas, please find a way to enjoy it with people who love you.

Hi I'm still here.

Thanks for all the messages. Everything has been ok for the past few days.

However this morning he did get a bit off with me after I rang the doctors and made an appointment to see the nurse (I've had a chest infection and needed antibiotics) the time which was given was 9.15am.

He was annoyed that I wouldn't be around at home to help him if he needed it when getting ready for work. I had to quickly get myself AND my daughter ready to get there on time, managed to iron something for him and left.

He's like a man child.

I know you all said to just go to my parent's house for Xmas but I honestly can't just leave and then say 'hey I'm at mum's tonight and tomorrow'. I do need to tell him my plans, it's just decent of me to do so. I would feel guilty and nervous of annoying or upsetting him by not letting him know my plans. I've been putting it off as I know I will get 20 questions but I'm trying to build up the confidence to tell him.

"He was annoyed that I wouldn't be around at home to help him if he needed it when getting ready for work."

Are you having a bloody laugh? Or rather, is he?!

What do you think his reaction will be?

I wish I was having a laugh! He likes to have me around incase he needs me to do something. He often gets late or is rushing about. He does help sort breakfast out, but never gets his lunch sorted or his shirts sorted. They are my job.

He has started to iron and sort his own lunch (sometimes) but likes to remind me he's had to do it. In fact he said to me the other day (and many times before) that by making his lunch, it shows him I care about him. It's really important to him that I do it, plus he doesn't like doing it, neither do I!!!

Vivacia, I think he will be unhappy at me going with our daughter for Christmas celebrations. I have a feeling he will be happy for me to go alone but will not want her staying the night for the reason being Christmas. I feel like I'm having to think about possible questions he will throw my way so I'm prepared for his argument.

If it goes any other way I will be shocked and extremely happy at not having to justify my decision.

I honestly can't just leave and then say 'hey I'm at mum's tonight and tomorrow'. I do need to tell him my plans, it's just decent of me to do so.

Why not? What do you think will happen if you do that. We know he is an abuser, do you think he will just say 'Oh, that's fine, have fun'?

I think he will be unhappy at me going with our daughter for Christmas celebrations

But he doesn't celebrate Christmas - so it is just another Thursday to him.

yes you can; he is not a nice man and it is your right to live without having to iron his shirts or make his lunch just because he likes you to do it... and you should prepare to just leave and go to your family and be prepared to stay...so when he rants or raves -as he will do - he is on the other side of the door. (and if he makes threats or is violent you call police, making sure to record any texts/emails...)

and then you can just say "I am not coming back"
and if he is angry you don't have to hand dd over - that would be unsafe.

you could mention that you will go to visit your family as that was the deal he signed up to when you got married- you celebrated your family traditions. the fact he has changed religion since then is his problem not yours. you happy for him to go to spend time with his religion next Thursday.

He's not decent to you - you are scared of him - he is abusing you. I know you aren't ready to leave for good but you need to be thinking about moving in that direction.

I know you all said to just go to my parent's house for Xmas but I honestly can't just leave and then say 'hey I'm at mum's tonight and tomorrow'. I do need to tell him my plans,

Why? I just don't get this? Why do you need to tell him when you know he will stop you? You aren't making much sense here.

what are you afraid of? Are you worried he will turn up at your parents and be violent? If he does you can take out an injunction against him.

You do not have to justify your decision to him. You can leave him any time you want.

it is christmas to you, your family and your dd.

of course you'll pop to see them.

when you get there you carry on as usual and when it looks like time to go back, you text him and say you'll be staying for a day or so, so that your parents can spend some time with you both.

you have that right.

he doesn't have the right to dictate your programme to you.

look around.

other adults don't live like this. they don't get the 20 questions, and they don't have the bollocks about christmas trees/shirts/lunch.

you have to be a little bit brave.

turn things around, say "surely you'll not deny your dd the chance to celebrate with her gp..? are you going to explain that to my parents, cos i'm not sure I can..."

please get to you parents by fair means or foul. let them help you. call woman's aid, the police if you are worried for your safety.

the 'religion' angle and the escalation over christmas may help you if you tell the authorities.

when I lived with my ex in his land, the rule was that he had to know where I was at all times.

this is because he would lose face if someone saw me out, and mentione to him that they'd seen me out and where was I going.

[sounds mad, but this godforesaken hole of a country really WAS like this, women would do anything to cause trouble in a mixed relationship, happened many times..]

so... i'd make arrangements when I knew he'd be out, and as my foot crossed the threshold i'd send the text advising him.

once he said 'why didn't you tell me you were going out earlier' I replied, I told you when I knew what I was doing... am I not supposed to leave the house without your ^permission'? really?

he'd never have been that much of an arsehole to say yes..

play them at their game, bend the rules to get you where you need to be, which is where you are safe and loved ultimately.

Hissy thanks that sounds like a good idea.

I'm feel as though I'm unable to just take her and stay because we always discuss everything. I just feel I have to tell him, then if he knows, when I get home he won't be in a mood. To me it's a better plan than just going, and then returning home to him being miserable.

I think it's easier to just go without him knowing my plans and then just hope for the best.

I am not scared of him getting violent, he won't. He won't come here demanding anything. He will just be stroppy, or so I predict.

you will be safe when you get there. talk to your parents. they will help.

Well, tell him you're going then. Whatever 'argument' he comes up with can you not simply respond by saying 'I'm not arguing about it, but those are my plans.' ?

He has demonstrated, by throwing away your Christmas tree (big mistake) that Christmas will not be celebrated in your home...therefore you are making sure you and your Dd don't miss out by making plans to be with your family who do want to celebrate Christmas. In fact I would use the tree throwing away incident against him and point out that by doing that he has shown you absolute disrespect, so he can hardly expect you to be denying yourself medical appointments in case he needs a shirt ironed or his bum wiped or whatever.

His demonstration of total lack of respect for you and your opinions is in such contrast to your worries about him being cross/upset over what you want to do. I wonder how worried he was about upsetting you when he got rid of the tree. Or when he stopped you getting medication or when he had you by the throat. I wonder if he, even for a second, stopped to think ooh no, that might upset my DW. Not a bit of it. As far as he is concerned, you are not equals, you are there to serve him. If you're fine with that, then fine. But if you read MN long enough you will see that people can rise up from these situations and stand up for themselves and their children. Not easy. But still. You have to work out if you really think your role in this one life you have is being someone's servant.

I missed your return Random but have been so worried about your safety. What Hissy said - would that plan mean going to parents and not returning, ever? Is that where we're at or am I jumping the line here?