Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

exp is taking me to court....again

249 replies

attheendofmyteatheragain · 06/12/2014 10:51

..or so he keeps saying Angry

ever since I was pregnant, any time we have a disagreement this is what he throws at me, and it is stressing me out no end!

backstory...discovered I was pregnant in 2010 (unplanned) whilst still together with exp, then several months later discovered he had been with his ex girlfriend the entirety of our relationship (about a year). we were due to move in together before I found this out, then a day or two beforehand he said he wouldn't be moving in with me anymore and that I would need to find alternative accommodation (I had already given up my flat). and that the relationship was over

so fast forward a few months to me being heavily pregnant, we met for a coffee to discuss the arrangements for when ds is born. he said to me things like, as soon as ds is born I will be having him every weekend and if that doesn't happen I will be taking you to court etc etc. at the time I was 24, very vulnerable and naive, and was easily bullied by him Sad he was 33 at the time and I was probably a little intimidated.

he continued to make my life difficult by refusing to pay any child maintenance until ds was 3months old because 'you're breastfeeding, he doesn't cost you any money' and continued to tell me that if I dare go to csa, he will quit his job to make sure I never ever get a single penny from him (this guy has since quit his very well paid job as he has about 7 flats that he rents out)

thank you for reading this far. anyway the situation now is that he wants ds this year for Christmas. when ds was weeks old we agreed that I would have him every Christmas eve into Christmas day then he would have him boxing day onwards for about four days. since then he has changed his mind and demanded that he has him one year before he turns 7 (as apparently that's when all children stop believing in Santa Hmm ) so I agreed. about a month ago it was agreed that he would get him boxing day and ny this year then Christmas eve/day next year.

However now he is no longer happy with that and has told that he is having him this year whether I like it or not Shock and if I don't agree, it will be done through lawyers and is deadly serious

I think this has been brought on partly because I have recently moved in with dp and I sense some jealousy there but who knows

so I'm meeting him tomorrow to collect ds and absolutely dreading it.

any lawyers out there or anyone with experience of how this would work? I'm guessing it would never get to court as quite frankly that's a bit ridiculous isn't it? he sees ds every single week, and has him every single Fri and Sat night. I travel the 40 odd miles every Sunday to collect ds from him. I'm hardly unreasonable. but is there some sort of court order he could get or legal contract to say when and which year etc he will get ds at Christmas and days of the week for overnight stays etc? I actually fear that he won't give ds back to me the weekend before Christmas. he is dead set on having him even though that wasn't our agreement Sad

OP posts:
43percentburnt · 07/12/2014 09:05

I have reread and the 25k is your dp income the 650 is your income.

So above is not relevant.

I really think the Csa is the way forward, but after shopping him to hmrc to ensure all his income is declared thoroughly. I wouldn't mention it to the council as that may lower your Csa claim if he doesn't have a HMO licence they may stop the multi let's!

Can you and your dp budget plan for next year to not count his maintenance whilst this is resolved. An hours solicitor advice with a very good and tenacious solicitor may help you solve things in your mind and help you see where to go next.

Do you claim all the childcare help you can? Plus council tax benefit etc if entitled.

WildBillfemale · 07/12/2014 09:10

Sounds ike it's time to a) go to the CSA and b) get legal arrangements in place re access. The mans a bully. Wouldn't you like to have your son some weekends?

Original poster
attheendofmyteatheragain · 07/12/2014 09:42

oh no, that is my worry springalong..

back in 2010 when we were together, of all the flats he rented out were mainly for students. large tenement style flats with huge rooms, each flat had three rooms and he charged each person 300 per month, although I know one or two of them he part owned with his brother, shortly before we split I recall him saying he wanted to buy his brother out. but the situation could've changed since then, maybe he sold one or two. but he has been renovating them all since he has no job atm so clearly has a good cash flow from somewhere

OP posts:
Original poster
attheendofmyteatheragain · 07/12/2014 09:43

I will definitely be calling women's aid for a chat and advice about a solicitor, fantastic idea, thank you

OP posts:
LineRunner · 07/12/2014 09:44

You really don't need a barrister to sort out a contact order with the family court, in my opinion.

Original poster
attheendofmyteatheragain · 07/12/2014 09:47

that wasn't very clear, each flats had 3 rooms, with 3 tenants in each flat being charged 300pm. so each flat he had earned him £900 per month and he had several (plus a very paid job) yet grudges giving me 300 pm for cm and is veerrry stingyConfused

OP posts:
Rebecca2014 · 07/12/2014 09:49

It sounds like he has you over a barrel. Csa are pretty useless with self employed men and you have a battle on your hands.

It sounds like a horrible situation and I hope one day you can survive without his money because that is when you have the control as at the moment he has it all.

Mummyoftwobeautifulpoppets · 07/12/2014 10:01

I also echo mediation; the courts far prefer that in the first instance rather than a child arrangement order application straight away. Not sure how much it is but far cheaper than court. It also looks very bad (if it does go to court) if he refuses to attend the mediation session. You have been very (overly) accommodating, that goes in your favour, very much so.
What a bully he is! It's unlikely he'd get 50:50 now at this stage, but I haven't finished my law degree so others can advise further. It's very worrying that he has refused to return your DS when he was due to..

Every other weekend seems to be very usual and it's worth pushing for that. And getting (backdated) CM, that's a priority and only fair to you and your DS

Mummyoftwobeautifulpoppets · 07/12/2014 10:03

In my opinion (limited experience!) it is actually advisable to have a barrister represent you in a family court, if it gets to that.

Dowser · 07/12/2014 10:45

I think he could get son 50-50.

My friend loved her children to bits and her ex got custody . He used money, privilege and bullying tactics to make out she was unfit mother.

That doesn't mean you should not stand up to him but yes keep emotion out of it.

Good luck. He obviously loves his son but he needs to play fair and yes you can represent your self in court and win too. My other friend did just that.

Original poster
attheendofmyteatheragain · 07/12/2014 10:50

my exp certainly has money privilege and plenty of bullying tactics. he is highly motivated, driven and very intelligent, and would stop at nothing to get whatever he wanted, and make sure he comes out on top

OP posts:
LineRunner · 07/12/2014 10:57

My experience is that my ExH employed a very expensive barrister and it didn't do him the slightest bit of good, because at heart he was being unreasonable.

I didn't spent a penny. I simply filled out the court firms correctly, got my responses in on time, spoke calmly in the court when it was my turn, was reasonable, spoke to his barrister who was keen to mediate tbh, and ExH ended up with a court order which he doesn't even stick to anyway.

I also asked successfully for wording to go in it about him staying away from my front door, and being polite and civil at all times, which his barrister agreed to.

VeganCow · 07/12/2014 11:01

He is a terrible bully as we all think, even you, op.
Do not tell him about Christmas play. I never told my ex a thing about anything going on at school, parents evening etc, because he took it upon himself to get all newsletters etc posted to his house so he could make his own arrangements if he wanted to, and your exp can do this too, if these things matter so much to him?

Original poster
attheendofmyteatheragain · 07/12/2014 11:24

that's good to hear your experience of it linerunner Smile

OP posts:
Mummyoftwobeautifulpoppets · 07/12/2014 11:30

I don't know..even when I'm qualified not sure I would represent myself unless I was sure I would win. Especially if I was up against such a bully, I would value the legal experience on my side IF I had a good barrister. But that is what I would do personally.

It's entirely up to you OP, if you think you can keep your cool then think about representing yourself, many people do win that way. As linerunner rightly says, there's a lot of just filling out forms correctly. A lot is also about making very detailed notes which you can then use in your statement, turning up and also presenting well. Good luck Flowers

NeedsAsockamnesty · 07/12/2014 12:06

My experience (extensive both personally and professionally) is contact is prized above anything but I more frequently see EOW than any other combo.

Court ordered 50:50 where both parties are not in agreement and where the primary care giver is reasonable and none hostile is quite unusual. I can think of 3 off the top of my head and one of those is going back through court to go to EOW both parents concur 50:50 is not working for the child.

Original poster
attheendofmyteatheragain · 07/12/2014 12:11

I barely have much time with ds as it is with me working and him being with his dad every weekend, surely him getting 50/50 would be insane as I would be working no doubt when I had ds yet Mr.rich exp can swan around with ds on his time with him as he can afford not to work Sad

OP posts:
springydaffs · 07/12/2014 12:42

ime of a serial-litigant, rich, intelligent, bullying ex, it was only when I represented myself that I won. All the other times I had to watch helplessly as his old school tie blinded everyone in the courtroom and I looked like the vindictive/unhinged ex.

I do think you're going to have to be canny, OP, and think outside the box. Being 'fair, decent, honest' just doesn't work - yy you will have to look like you are but I'd be scheming in the background. Scheming is the word, take off your good girl coat.

As for facilitating a relationship between your ds and this shit, I wouldn't be breaking my back over that one iiwy. imo and experience , no father is better than a bad father.

Original poster
attheendofmyteatheragain · 07/12/2014 12:51

thanks springy, noted Wink

OP posts:
springydaffs · 07/12/2014 12:56

I got counsel (checked with a barrister), though, but legal aid wouldn't fork out for any further representation. Serial litigation is recognised these days as a form of domestic abuse, but it wasn't when I was subjected to it.

When I represented myself and won it was against his team of hotshot central london lawyers shipped into a provincial court.

Thankfully, he wasn't interested in custody, just torturing me half to death. OP, he's made you a jibbering wreck, terrified of your own shadow. Try and see that's just him being a bullyboy, like a playground bully, flexing his muscles and enjoying the power.

That said, there's a lot at stake here should he go for eg custody. I'd be thinking about being prepared to change the landscape of your life eg your job and where you're living (and who with). Just for the interim, mind.

I have 'good girl' running through me like a stick of rock so if anyone has any canny ideas for OP to try for size....

springydaffs · 07/12/2014 13:10

Well, there's one I can think of: he is at home all the time, perfectly placed to have full custody, while you're working all the time, struggling to find time with ds...

Mummyoftwobeautifulpoppets · 07/12/2014 13:44

Anything in your medical notes that can be twisted OP? Mental health issues/depression, court can sometimes ask for say five years notes from your GP, but they'd have to have a damn good reason to apply for them that said.

springydaffs · 07/12/2014 14:02

Right, these are fear-inducing negatives - let's get our thinking caps on to work out a way you can beat him at his own game....

I've recently read 'Georgiana', biography of the Duchess of Devonshire (18thC). Truly SHOCKING machinations of aristo/upper class set as a matter of course. And, let's face it, they still run the country, if not courts (the success of ex's old school tie would suggest so). Perhaps read that to get your head around sloughing off any post-victorian 'goodness'..

Where's BadBaldingBallerina when she's needed? She'd be good at coming up with a cunning plan

springydaffs · 07/12/2014 14:03

Actually DON'T read that because the Duke gets the kids. Sorry, brain complete mush at the mo. Sorry.

Mummyoftwobeautifulpoppets · 07/12/2014 14:08

Ok, anything in his medical notes (that you know of)?