You are not responsible for the rape or sexual assault you endured

[differentnameforthis]

In light of many threads about Ched Evans' & his victim & in light of those who believe she could have prevented it by being sober (!), I thought it was important to raise this issue.

It doesn't matter if you were drunk
It doesn't matter if you were alone
It doesn't matter if you got into a taxi/car/train/bus with him
It doesn't matter if you went to a room with him
It doesn't matter if you knew him
It doesn't matter if you didn't know him
It doesn't matter if you started to have sex with him & said no
It doesn't matter if you had sex with him an hour/a day/a week before
It doesn't matter if you had sex with his friend
It doesn't matter what you were wearing

YOU ARE IN NO WAY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE RAPE/SEXUAL ASSAULT YOU ENDURED.

We believe you

Ha, yes, EElisa, no worries.

I think that the basic message here is for women to stay as safe as possible
Makes sense to me.
raped within marriage been there. and coerced. and the kiss-free version mentioned in another thread.
Many men view any sort of friendliness from a female as a green light to sex
Exactly so. Common courtesy is seen as a come-on by some.

cailindana - are you happy living in a cloud-cuckoo-land where your incautious actions never have consequences? and in encouraging other women to believe that not only can they do the same, they have the right to do so?

I simply do not buy "many men view any sort of friendliness from a female as a green light to sex".

Really? Really?

Not in my world. Nor in anyone else's as far as I am aware.

I think there is a lot of confusion surrounding these types of comments. Very few people, if any, actually make out that a woman is to blame for the rape if she walked home drunk/through a dark alley. They are simply offering advice that might lower your chances of being a victim, it is up to you if you take it, and if you don't and still get raped, the blame is entirely on the perpetrator as it always should be. If I have a nice TV that you can see through the window of my house, am I to blame if someone breaks in and steals it? No of course I'm not, I didn't force someone to steal it, they made a choice to. Someone might advise me not to put an expensive telly where anyone passing by can see it. That isn't victim blaming either, that's crime prevention advice. If I chose not to follow that advise and am robbed again, it's still not my fault that it was taken. The blame lies with the perpetrator of the crime.

Humblepie, what do you say of the woman walking down a public street in broad daylight who becomes the target for rape? How could she have improved her odds of not being raped? Stayed indoors?

But the blame isn't entirely on the perpetrator in the world we live in, is it? That's the point.

I think it is. If I hear a story about a drunk woman walking home at night on her own who got raped, the only person I blame for it is the person who raped her. Sure I also see some things the woman could have done differently to lower her chances of being in a dangerous situation but she isn't forced to do that if she doesn't want, and it still doesn't justify someone raping her. The blame as always is with the person who chose to force someone to have sex, wouldn't you say?

You might do, Aduaz, but look at all the shit the victim took and is still taking in the Evan's case.

Humble I was raped by a boyfriend of mine while I was sleeping. I willingly got drunk with him, willingly got into his bed, willingly had sex with him and then willingly went to sleep naked next to him. I didn't willingly wake up with him inside of me. I didn't want to have to force him to stop penetrating me.

Years later, after no contact, I came home to find him in my house with my male housemate. I went to my bed expecting him to leave and woke up with him again touching me.

Am I to blame for this? Should I accept culpability for putting myself in the tigers cafe?

I really don't think most people think that way though. And whenever you bring up things the victim could have done to lower their chances of being in a dangerous situation, it is always misinterpreted as "victim blaming" somehow.

Salemthecat why should you be blamed? It seems a straightforward case of sex without implicit or implied consent therefore rape.

I'm not just talking about individuals with an opinion though. We don't live in a vacuum. Society, or a large part of it, blames the victim. I find it amazing that anyone could conclude otherwise.

I think we have thoughts like that to make ourselves feel safer. You hear about a stranger rape, and think, it can't happen to me if I avoid going out alone late at night. It's totally irrational of course, because you're more likely get raped by someone you know. But fear often is irrational.

I think a lot of what you see as victim blaming is just crime prevention tips, things the victim could have done to lower their odds of being raped. They are under no obligation to follow those tips and if they don't follow them and get raped, it's still the fault of the person who carried out the act. Victim blaming is literally saying or implying "You deserved to be raped", not "you could have lowered your chances if you did this".

No, it is not. I come from the position of asking why should anyone have to try to 'lower their odds' of getting raped? I know people will pile in and tut and say, how foolish, but I really think that should be the starting point for debate, not discussing crime prevention tips.

I think that's a bit naive Aduaz. People are more vulnerable to a range of things when drunk but there is a particular misogyny to putting responsibility on women to not get raped.

cailindana - are you happy living in a cloud-cuckoo-land where your incautious actions never have consequences? and in encouraging other women to believe that not only can they do the same, they have the right to do so?

Thing is though Humble, I have been cautious. I've still been raped, twice. I'm sorry to see you've also been raped.

Advising women to be "cautious" does nothing beyond making them feel afraid and make them curtail their own lives. Men rape women in all circumstances. I've never been falling down drunk, I've never gone home with a stranger, I rarely ever walk alone in dark places, yet I've been raped twice. All of the other women I know who've been raped were also "cautious" people. It made absolutely no difference.

Aduaz: "They are simply offering advice that might lower your chances of being a victim, it is up to you if you take it, and if you don't and still get raped, the blame is entirely on the perpetrator as it always should be. If I have a nice TV that you can see through the window of my house, am I to blame if someone breaks in and steals it? No of course I'm not, I didn't force someone to steal it, they made a choice to. Someone might advise me not to put an expensive telly where anyone passing by can see it. That isn't victim blaming either, that's crime prevention advice. If I chose not to follow that advise and am robbed again, it's still not my fault that it was taken. The blame lies with the perpetrator of the crime."

My vagina is not the same thing as a "nice tv." I can't leave it at home or pretend I don't have it. Plus, my body is not a luxury item that I am flaunting to hungry thieves. I can't actually do without it. If I want to live my life, I have to take it with me wherever I go. Comparing rape to the theft of an item is totally misguided IMO - the two crimes are in no way comparable. Theft is an opportunistic crime committed by someone who wants a specific item, the item can usually be replaced. Rape is a calculated destruction of a living person's right to a sense of security and wellbeing - it is a violent crime that leaves longterm scars on a person. Saying that protecting against rape is the same as protecting against theft shows a total misunderstanding of what rape actually is.

in an ideal world no-one should have to lower their odds of being a crime victim, there would be no crime.

but it is not an ideal world and there is crime.

I like to lower my odds - but if I am a crime victim it isn't my fault. Which I don't think anyone here has disagreed with.

I have done quite a number of things on that list.
I have never been raped.
Because I have never met a rapist.

This is surely all about placing responsibility where it belongs, and ensuring that everyone knows where that responsibility lies. Our daughters and sons need to be taught this. Our police and judicial system need to understand this.

Excellent OP.

PeppermintPasty you are absolutely right no one should have to lower their odds just like I shouldn't have to lock my doors at night to feel safer from being robbed. We should try to become a society where a woman can feel 100% safe from ever being raped, and a society where I can leave my door unlocked without worrying about being robbed. But the reason why people offer these tips and advice on how to lower your odds is because we aren't that society just yet, and we have people among us who will see a woman in a vulnerable position and take advantage of it, or who will try an unlocked
door and burglar the place.

I know there is victim blaming in the world but that's different to advice on how to lower your chances of being a victim. True victim blaming is where the victim is blamed and the perpetrator is not.

we aren't that society just yet
Exactly.

Eloquently put caillindana .

Where the fuck have all these appalling rape apologists come from?

Has that DJ invaded the thread with his mates or are we playing host to a group of 70s light entertainment stars or something?

OP says, if you are raped, it is not your fault, it is the fault of the rapists.

And people jump in to say they disagree with her! Jesus christ.

With attitudes like this in society it is no wonder that hardly any rapists are caught and imprisoned. And it's no surprise that the police routinely tell both adult and child victims to sod off.

This really gets on my tits. Women are not asking to be raped by doing normal everyday stuff near men, if the men decide to assault or rape them. FFS and they do not bear any of the blame.

Yes, and we have plenty of people amongst us who would prefer the world to stay this way. Go figure.

^ that was to aduaz