non-molestation orders- any views?

[thatsnotmynamereally]

I met a new solicitor yesterday reccomended through a friend as I wanted a fresh view on my impending (perhaps) divorce. The existing solicitor has drafted a divorce petition but it hasn't been served yet, for various reasons (mainly because I don't want to deal with having to move out and the inevitable nastiness that will ensue). When I met the new solicitor and told her about H's ongoing abusive and controlling nature she immediately suggested that I should get a non-molestation order in place ASAP and divorce issues could come after that. I'd been told the opposite by my other solicitor-- that we should test out his reaction to the divorce petition first and if needed other action could follow.

To be honest when she suggested this way forward I felt a surge of relief... as I see it the non-molestation order is a document that says spells it out for him in writing that he has to be a decent person. I can stay living in the house and he doesn't get a criminal record unless he brings it on himself. I know it's going to cost upwards of 2k but the other option (rather than inertia) is to rent a flat and move out which I've priced up at around 10k and there are cat/dog issues.

She said that there would be no real chance of getting an occupation order (property in joint names, no specific violence or recent threats) so I guess the non-mol would say that he had to stay out of my bedroom (to be decided I guess??) and not boss me around, yell, swear, make demands etc. He is emotionally abusive and controllling, not violent. I'm thinking it will be a warning shot before the divorce petition comes his way. I might also be naively thinking that him seeing it spelled out will give him some insight into the unacceptability of his behaviour.

I spoke to a local branch of WA legal advice before and they reccomended non-mol but I didn't take it further as theysaid they only would deal with legal aid cases. I think my existing solicitor's advice was due to not wanting to rack up more charges for me (fine) and him thinking that H would possibly be OK with divorce scenario.

TBH H says he would be fine with divorce scenario 'unless I try to nick half of HIS money' -- of course I am going to pursue with a vengeance my half of our assets, I'm not stupid and know what I'd be entitled to. So he'll be fighting me for money, definitely.

Any thoughts? Experiences?

Agree with cestlavie as always. Don't ask what he intends to do. What answer do you expect? He is not in a million years going to accept this challenge and initiate divorce proceedings.

I've had more miid-nasty emails from him as I've sat here this evening having an otherwise lovely time. I am intending to go into the office tomorrow and as its so close to Xmas it should be a lighthearted atmosphere but with this hanging over me it'll be ruined. I'll call solicitor first thing and see what we can do quickly tomorrow. As he's said I will be getting divorce papers for Xmas maybe I can do that for him instead.

I just get so spooked by all the WA advice saying the time they know the relationship's over is the most dangerous. I go in circles. I want him out, I think about getting non mol or occupation order, realise that wont get rid of him so I look at renting a flat for 6 months, look at the price and start thinking its unfair that I should leave when we own 2 houses already. Then I think about how I should get a non mol or occupation order. He is consistently abusive but not violent. I ignore him as much as possible. But his list of 36 conditions is a step too far, it's almost like he's baiting me. So I want an end to it, I guess I know I need to grow a backbone as I've been told!

Yes cest and karen, that's what I need to do and I can do it all with reference back to his demand email. It's fairly clear cut that I cannot comply, and taken at face value his email is pathetically demanding! Just need to do it. I'd better get it moving tomorrow or else I'll have to disappear!

Renting flat for Six months would be money well spent as it would get you out and give time to really get the message across. Those six months to battle over who gets which house. Think of it as an investment in your future. And providing you with safe place to go and live how you please. You would be entitled to call police if he bothered you there. You could put these costs down in when you sort finances.

With Xmas and the weekend and solicitor closing except for emergency then maybe you should just ride out Xmas however then move out into six month rental. As that gives you your own front door and peace. And sends clearer message. While you living In joint owned more difficult to set boundaries. Not much more expensive than getting non mol....

It is actually cest as I would want to stay in my area, rents are high so 6 month rental would be around 10k (for a no-pets place so I'd still have to deal with cat/dog) as opposed to 2k for non mol. And, as he's done the past few days, he might not even stay in our house. He prefers the country house so solicitor thinks he'd be willing to go there full time if presented with option. I just need to get divorce proceedings going so we can have the conversation.

Reading that back -- all totally irrelevant. I just want OUT.

Good luck today, thatsnotmyname .

Is there any way that he would agree to stay in the other house voluntarily and you can change the locks to the house you currently live in, after you served him with the divorce paperwork.

If you are that worried, speak to your solicitor about the non molestation order again. Could your solicitor contact him to confirm that he will stay in the other house?

Will talk to him later. I'm really fed up with the whole situation (back to work blues!) and the fact that nothing, absolutely nothing has changed. Think I'll have to throw caution to the wind and tell him I want divorce. No idea what will happen after that. Best case scenario is he agrees to stay away. I have very little to threaten him with. Non mol might help but solicitor is 50/50 on it, doesn't seem keen.

nothing has changed because nothing has happened.

ok I see your point about the houses. so:

tell him you divorcing him.

tell him to stay in country house.

change lock on your house (dont tell solicitor as they will have to tell you you cannot bar him entry to his house but let's imagine that you have "lost" your key today oh dear....and you think someone tried to break in so you have had to change lock as emergency .... (£200 well spent - do it today call locksmith now) and you will give him his key at some point.... yes he can apply to court for access to his house but this gets you time... )

Nothing will change unless you do something about it.

He is not going to divorce you to do you a favour.

He does not even know that you want a divorce and he is probably confused about what is going on at the moment, since you are acting out of character and he is therefore trying even harder to 'put you in your place' in his opinion. This is why WA emphasise in these situations not to escalate the situation by acting out of character.

By not filing for divorce and at the same time winding him up, you are potentially creating a dangerous situation.

I don't think it is a good idea to not inform him in some shape or form that you want to divorce him. But not without at least a solicitor's letter.

Tell him that you want a divorce.

Ask him to stay in the other place.

Change the locks.

As cestlavie says.

I hope you are ok Thatsnot and Happy Christmas.

Point taken -- I need to change this situation. Luckily he's been a total d*ck over Xmas. I had everything ready to go on Tuesday but he was acting so irrationally I wasn't sure about Xmas being an ok time, solicitor and others agreed, BUT that I means I have to get this letter sent Monday. He still thinks his 36 conditions are ok.... We have 'discussed' it. DD, who hasn't spoken to him for 6 months, is home (he begged) and all he's said is that she's been eating too much. Horrid man.

Well the petition has been sent to court (need to review the details, not really sure what implications are, does it just sit there until,served? I.e, could I wait another 2-6-8 months or does it 'expire'?) and I'm feeling elated to have made progress. I'm so up and down, back and forth... He's been a total dickhead over the holidays but with I do have concerns about his state of mind (will elaborate later) but I'm just getting older in the mean time. How, how, how do I tell him? A wonderful friend has said I can stay in her flat while she's away, it's already been a week and I haven't gone.

Having said that, I'm glad I didn't 'dump' him over the holidays, I stuck by and played my usual role and he didn't magically become a decent person. But holidays over now, no excuses.

Whoops that was a bit of musing aloud... I do have plans/intentions, just wobbling. I need to stay strong, no backtracking. Scary stuff, would be so comfortable to just forget it.

Weirdly I'm wondering if he might react to the divorce petition by suddenly seeing the light and deciding he needs to change, and what would I do? It's tempting, there are a lot of good things in my life and I'm scared that I might ruin it, might 'break the spell' by asking for divorce.

Weirdly I'm wondering if he might react to the divorce petition by suddenly seeing the light and deciding he needs to change, and what would I do?

He may well react to the divorce by saying he will change, but he won't. So you just ignore it.

It's tempting, there are a lot of good things in my life and I'm scared that I might ruin it, might 'break the spell' by asking for divorce.

It's great that are many good things in your life, and freed from the shackles of an abusive relationship you will be able to enjoy them fully.

There is no spell, real life is not the Wizard of Oz.

you move out to your friend's flat with suitcase and you leave him a note.
you need to tell him.

I was thinking of you earlier and meant to send a reminder not to forget to get divorced. Very well done!

Why would you lose the good things in your life by getting rid of your abusive H? you would only be losing the bad things in your life.

OP, what are you waiting for exactly? Him to get mad, have a big argument so you have an excuse to leave? Just go! Or serve him...and move on!

And think about your daughter too OP! He's starting to abuse her as well! You both need to be rid of this abusive man! Keep going!

Thanks all luckily he gave me reasons to despise him yesterday plus he's going out to the other house tonight. So it is perfect timing to pack some things/ go to friends. AND TELL HIM.

I do realise how hard this is for you and how much courage this requires.

Well done and keep going.

thanks so much Karen. I'm having a really bad day furious with my work situation... feeling like years have been wasted, work-wise I am feeling the lowest of the low, furious that my US qualification doesn't count in the UK when all EU ones do and I speak excellent english and at H's insistence never pursued the UK equivalent and now I'm just wishing I'd kept to a career path instead of 'dropping out' all those years ago. Because when we split he's still got loads coming in and I will have to take what I can get.

I want to use this fury in my favour, to spur me into action, tonight.

Just revisiting his 'list' from the other day:
Rule 8. If you dont work I will give you an allowance each month dependant on what i am earning and how lazy you are.

THAT SHOULD BE ENOUGH TO MAKE ME FURIOUS!

But as a reminder, Rules 2-6.

1. bank. you will take your name off the joint account and make this so only I have access. Alternatively I will stop paying money into joint account. and will set up my own account.
2. You will stop spending my money. I will pay bills etc from my sole account
3. You will not work full time
4. IF you work you will organise and run a cleaner and pay from your account. you will pay for anything else you neglect like grooming for cat and dog, and restaurants if you wont cook. you will pay your phone your petrol your insurance.

etc etc etc... right up to Rule 36. FFS.

Good that you are angry. Use this anger to spur you on. I know how this frustration / anger feels and it is really hard. I still feel the same and I am just especially frustrated as I am looking for a new job and there are so many restrictions due to being stranded abroad, such as not being able to travel for business due to lack of childcare, not being able to work in my native language. It's f frustrating.

Keep going. We will get there. They are just fuckwits.

Karen sorry you have to feel stranded abroad after you've finally got to this point. I hope you find something good, soon. The restricitons are frustrating in the extreme. But you can capitalise on the experience you got with Firm Toad, can't you? And did you say there might be an opportunity with their main competitor ? You'll be the stronger for it in the end-- as you've got language skills on top of everything else.

Anyway... I told him, last night and this morning (reinforcing the message) that I'd been to a solicitor and started divorce proceedings, he'd be hearing from them soon. Muted response, strict instruction NOT to do that... but no huge outburst. So Far. He doesn't think I'm serious (as ever) even though last night (he came home as he 'had a cold', I was SO UPSET and so dissapointed that he came back, the deludedly thinks I would want to look after him?? he says he was doing me a favour by bringing the car back so I could drive to work today-- well fine but I was over an hour late because the 'deal' with me having the car was that I had to drive him to the tube station and as he has a cold he took ages to get ready. Oh yes and I mentioned that I was divorcing him). So... what next? no going back as papers have gone to court.

The car thing - making you late for work - was obviously deliberate. After all you are not supposed to work full time, as has been decreed.

Have you a plan to make sure he doesn't do that to you again?