non-molestation orders- any views?

[thatsnotmynamereally]

I met a new solicitor yesterday reccomended through a friend as I wanted a fresh view on my impending (perhaps) divorce. The existing solicitor has drafted a divorce petition but it hasn't been served yet, for various reasons (mainly because I don't want to deal with having to move out and the inevitable nastiness that will ensue). When I met the new solicitor and told her about H's ongoing abusive and controlling nature she immediately suggested that I should get a non-molestation order in place ASAP and divorce issues could come after that. I'd been told the opposite by my other solicitor-- that we should test out his reaction to the divorce petition first and if needed other action could follow.

To be honest when she suggested this way forward I felt a surge of relief... as I see it the non-molestation order is a document that says spells it out for him in writing that he has to be a decent person. I can stay living in the house and he doesn't get a criminal record unless he brings it on himself. I know it's going to cost upwards of 2k but the other option (rather than inertia) is to rent a flat and move out which I've priced up at around 10k and there are cat/dog issues.

She said that there would be no real chance of getting an occupation order (property in joint names, no specific violence or recent threats) so I guess the non-mol would say that he had to stay out of my bedroom (to be decided I guess??) and not boss me around, yell, swear, make demands etc. He is emotionally abusive and controllling, not violent. I'm thinking it will be a warning shot before the divorce petition comes his way. I might also be naively thinking that him seeing it spelled out will give him some insight into the unacceptability of his behaviour.

I spoke to a local branch of WA legal advice before and they reccomended non-mol but I didn't take it further as theysaid they only would deal with legal aid cases. I think my existing solicitor's advice was due to not wanting to rack up more charges for me (fine) and him thinking that H would possibly be OK with divorce scenario.

TBH H says he would be fine with divorce scenario 'unless I try to nick half of HIS money' -- of course I am going to pursue with a vengeance my half of our assets, I'm not stupid and know what I'd be entitled to. So he'll be fighting me for money, definitely.

Any thoughts? Experiences?

I have to agree with WA that the optimum option is to move out, or to get your husband out. But posters including myself have been trying to persuade you to move out over several threads and it hasn't happened.

If you're not going to take that step and insist on staying in the house with your husband, then a non-mol is necessary. It's not going to give you a huge amount of protection but it means that any breach can be reported to the police and they will deal with it.

Personally I think that pursuing a DIY non-mol is a bad idea. I think you are dithering and confused and going round in circles, a state of affairs caused by having been in an abusive relationship for so long, and I don't believe that if you try to DIY you will actually get it done. Far better, in the circumstances to let a professional deal with all of it including serving the papers, so everything can be synchronised and organised for you. I think a month's salary is a small price to pay for a ticket to freedom.

Finally, I really wish you would listen to posters here when they tell you not tell your husband about your trip. I don't believe that you are doing so to test his reaction, you have long experience of his abuse, you know exactly what he is like. I think you are still brainwashed into believing you can't do anything without his permission. Worst case scenario is that he ends up going with you or you end up cancelling. Why put yourself through a whole lot of un-necessary stress when he kicks off?

That's all very well, Twinkle but what about DS? He surely cannot be left with his father in the house in such circumstances. He may bear the brunt of his father's wrath, if he dares to jump to his mother's defence.

twinklestein the non-mol court etc is booked for Wednesday, and if I'm going to go for it I,do want the sols taking it forward, as it will be the official beginning of the end so to speak, the next step being serving of the divorce papers then financial settlement, selling the house etc. and the sols will handle all of that, I have no reason to doubt they are competent. In my mind, the non mol would mean from Wednesday onwards I'd be free to do as I please and go where I please including a trip to Florida if I choose, without 'asking' never mind the fact that its already booked . I'm just going through all the possible ways in which it could go wrong. Then, I stop and think about all the possible ways in which it could go right and I brighten up.

I had months of counselling in which th counsellor constantly said that no one could tell me what to do, that I had to make up my own mind, now I've got a firm of solicitors who are v keen to offer a way forward, telling me what I should do and how I can do it. I just need to be 100% sure that its the right thing. I know a non mol is worthless if I'd then go on not to report him for breaking it

I think it's crazy to leave him in a house with his father, personally I would suggest he went to stay with a friend. But he's 21 and the OP has indicated he would prefer to stay at home; as an adult, the OP can't make decisions for him.

Xpost with OP, excellent news.

I think you're right to try and focus on the positive. I think the second-guessing of what may go wrong is the is a legacy of having been in abusice relationship for so long.

DS doesn't know much about what's going on. I've made such a hash of things! Will think about options, could be possible for DS to come as well. I truly booked the trip thinking only of seeing my family and standing firm on that, no ulterior motive of instigating ww3 with H. Sorry for all the wavering. Again. Just jittery!

Don't won't about wavering, it's entirely understandable.

I do think you should let ds know what's going on unless he would feel duty bound to tell his dad. If he could take time off work at short notice he might like to come with you, but if not I think it would be sensible for him to stay elsewhere when you're away.

de-lurking after reading many of your threads to say...

do it! do it! do it! do it! do it! do it! do it! do it! do it! do it! do it! do it! do it! do it! do it! do it!

You are paralysed by him and what he has put on you, not by causes that genuinely belong to you.

Good luck

you are free to do as you please now. you don't need a nonmol order to go on holiday ! you are a free woman and adult. do you see how ridiculous that sounds?

your dc are adults. you are an adult.
you dont want him with you, he doesnt need to know until you on that plane.

if there are any specific arrangements he needs to know about then leave a note.

you do not have to seek his permission . you are planning to leave him so just go on holiday. and dont listen to any of his voice messages... get a new payg for your dc to contact you.

what is it you think he will do? coerce you not to go? a non mol order might spell it to him not to but he may still find ways to persuade you - or he may eg harm himself /fake an illness/who knows what etc to make you stay.

i would stave off telling him anything until you packed and at the airport and ready to get on that plane.
make arrangements for cat.
make sure ds is with a friend.

i think if you do things now before you go away you will end up not going...
let solicitor contact him while you away.

you need to get on that holiday and winding your h up right now before you go away is totally teh wrong way to do it.

get away, then serve him with orders and papers and let him rant to solicitors.

you really dont want to be in same house as someone who has been given orders, etc. it's madness....if you can stay elsewhere from wednesday til you go away then sure, do it. remember these people are very clever - he will find a way to grind you down while staying on the right side of any nonmol order...and if he goes for you and injures you a non mol order will mean nothing.

so only serve on him if you going to be out of the way for a few days... if you really think you will go along to court and he will be served a no mol order an will meekly so oh yes of course, i will be calm and quiet then you being v naive...and putting your self at risk of emotional or physical harm - probably emotional mental ...#

go on holiday.
then serve
please

Hi Thatsnot

I've just been through exactly the same the same thing - I switched solicitor as my first was completely ineffectual - I was put in touch with new solicitor by the police who was amazing - I didn't need a non mol or occ order in the end - just a total knock out letter from her telling him that he had 7 days to get the fuck out of the house and leave me alone while the divorce goes through or else he's going to court to be served a non molestation and occupation order at his expense!

It totally did the trick. Her letter was emailed to him on the Friday before half term and I went away to my parents with the kids and stayed away - in that week he got himself a solicitor (something he hadn't done as was in denial about the divorce) and moved out.

I haven't had chance to read the full thread yet as bit busy today, will come back, but you can do this!! You can SO do this!! You will be absolutely fine

Thank you cest that is sort of what I'm wondering, the solicitors seem to think he will be served nonmol order and then he'll be obedient. I'm sure they have their reasons but I'm thinking it is wasted effort and time. This whole mess has come about because I spoke to these new solicitors, they wanted to do it ASAP after our first meeting a week ago, I made another appointment Friday to discuss timescale/possibly waiting and they just wanted to get on with it. Hence the Wednesday appointment. They don't seem to be concerned about my trip. I asked it we could write a letter threatening a non mol and he said something like the last time they did that the woman ended up dead, killed that night. Hmmmm. He could have still done that even with non mol in place, I'm starting to wonder, perhaps I've misplaced my trust in these new sols in a desire to do something, anything! I offered to pay for some time to discuss it but they just wanted to book in the day so we said next weds (this was yesterday that I was in). So I was wondering if they've jumped the gun to make an easy case for them, as I did go in wanting action.

Not to mis-represent them, I'm sure that what they think is to present a bully with a non mol, which doesn't give him a criminal record until he breaks it, will make him sit up and behave. But it's the 2 weeks stewing time I'm concerned about now. FFS. I can't organise anything at this rate! I'm seeing him later today, if he acts horrible to me I will intend to stick to the Wednesday date and perhaps take a temporary rental, will be expensive but more fuel for an occupation order to be added. Then he could live in other house. He could be given the 2 weeks I'm away to move out. I could take DS with me then we could move back into the house which would be for the time the divorce is going through.

Other situation: he's ok (he has a building project going on at the moment so diverted, happy with that) I tell him I'm going on trip, he's fine with that, I quietly make plans for serving divorce papers and non mol at the same time when we return from trip. What are the chances? sorry to be so long winded but it helps to write it out! I need to be de-muddled by the end of the weekend. I'll stress again, he's not violent, and I know what to look for re triggers, and have safety plans in place.

Hi nameischanged, I'm sorry I got your story wrong, I don't realise that Rotty just threatened him with the orders. My mistake OP!

Thank you name I've been following your threads ( lurking really)and so impressed with what you've achieved! Your experience is what gave me the idea of doing the letter instead of going straight in with the non mol. It seemed a good idea to me. But the new solicitors don't approve of this evidently nor do they appreciate the timescale. I'm going out soon so can clear my head or all this clutter (I hope) and formulate a proper plan.

I wish there was a package deal that included alternative accommodation (ideally 5*) for the duration, plus divorce proceedings! And perhaps a singing telegram to deliver the news to H, to take the edge off

Yes twinkle I was wondering about that! Truly, it's the thought of having to live with mr angryman in the same house like name had to do that's had me paralysed with inaction throughout this past year. I'm liking the idea of disappearing! Before or after my trip which he still doesn't know about

Also thinking my package idea has marketing possibilities! A travel agent/solicitor combination. Hmmm. Otherwise there's always that awful having-to-live-with-angryman-you've-just-made-angrier time period... If he were mr violent man it would be quite different.

It sounds like the solicitors are trying to find a practical way of protecting you while acceding to what you want.

It's your choice to stay in the house with him. You are absolutely right that a non-mol would not have protected that woman from being killed. It will give you some protection but it won't give you much. That is why WA and posters on here have advised you repeatedly to move out.

The solicitors can't force you to move out either if you insist on staying, they can only organise legal protection around your choice to stay in the house.

If you want to rethink your plans, move out, and serve the papers while you're away, I think that would be a good idea.

The problem with abusive men is that ending a relationship is a key flashpoint for escalation of abuse. Some, who had never previously been violent, become so with just such a trigger, and you can't tell which ones will.

When he realises you're serious and it is actually over, you have no idea what he will do, but even if he sticks to emotional abuse, that will be quite bad enough.

cestlavie I'm with you on this. After one year of carrying non mols with me I can confirm exactly what you have said. These guys are very clever. There is enough he can do to wind you up and wear you out while he is staying on the right side of the non mols.

Just serving the non mols and not the divorce papers at the same time seems a little pointless. Go on holiday, especially with DS in the house with him and serve him the whole lot after, and look at the occupation order too.

If you just serve the non mols and go on holiday, he can change the locks, kill your cat, throw all your stuff out - and what about your DS? He will be on his own with his ranting and raging father. 21 or not. That's not fair on him.

Thanks twinkle you're absolutely right, it's become clear that nothing will happen while I'm trying to hold things together and keep house/job going, at the same time I don't like the idea of taking an expensive rental for 6 months (our area) but it might have to be that, or long holiday in somewhere sunny perhaps, but then I would have to leave job. So... there are some other options out there I'm sure. Will consider options, I almost put the house on the market as H doesn't even like it but I've been told not to sell until financial settlement in place. Which cannot happen until divorce is declared. Back to square 1. Going out now to clear my head!

Thanks karen for writing what I didn't even dare think. Going out now but will update later.

No worries Twink

Hmm Thatsnot, I'm not a solicitor obviously so I don't know what the best thing to do would be in your situation, but Rottie was quite clear in her letter that she knew what H had been up to, that she wasn't going to go into detail now but safe to say that if he goes to court, he's getting whacked. It scared the shit out of him. BIL told me H felt like a rapist or something when he read the letter. I was like, err yeah and a domestic abuser!

Rottie said to me that she would do the non mol for me but that it's a lot of rigmarole and expense and how did I feel about giving the letter a shot first. I had already been through the hell of serving divorce papers so I was up for it. But then Rottie is legal aid as well as private and she's all about saving money, I hope your solicitor isn't trying to make money here, I'm sure not, I'm sure a non mol is absolutely warranted here, but if you have concerns tell them, you're paying them to do what you want!

Plus your H will be wondering why he is suddenly being served with the non mols. Also, you will be worrying what he is up to while you are away from the house.

I would advise the nice as pie approach. Explain to him at short notice that you have to go and see your elderly parents, show him an urgent email from your sister asking for your help and appear frazzled, worried and distraught about your father's health. Give him very short notice so he can't arrange to come with you. A day or so. Tell him as late as you can leave it. Nobody can be so callous and not let you see your parents who are over eighty (Toad can, but he's bonkers).

Then set off and enjoy your holiday.

After that, serve him non mols and divorce papers, apply for occupation order. You may get it on the return hearing. Something will be put into place. The court will not make you live with him, if there is a danger that he will kick off. Been there, done that.

Oh didn't realise you hadn't served divorce papers yet. Right, yes agree with everyone, serve divorce papers and non mol or threat of non mol at same time.

God it's such a horrible situation, I really feel for you. But it will be alright in the end, I promise.

I have come back to a completely depleted house thatsnotmyname even though I had put things into storage, all the rest was gone. And he had locked us out. Even if it means putting things off, you are now planning to go away, so it doesn't matter if you make your application two weeks later.

Put on your best pokerface and play all your cards carefully. You have not seen your family in ages. The non mols can wait two weeks. God knows what he will concoct with his own solicitor while you are away. You will give him time to make a plan to harass you as much as possible. While you are away, you don't need non mols.