non-molestation orders- any views?

[thatsnotmynamereally]

I met a new solicitor yesterday reccomended through a friend as I wanted a fresh view on my impending (perhaps) divorce. The existing solicitor has drafted a divorce petition but it hasn't been served yet, for various reasons (mainly because I don't want to deal with having to move out and the inevitable nastiness that will ensue). When I met the new solicitor and told her about H's ongoing abusive and controlling nature she immediately suggested that I should get a non-molestation order in place ASAP and divorce issues could come after that. I'd been told the opposite by my other solicitor-- that we should test out his reaction to the divorce petition first and if needed other action could follow.

To be honest when she suggested this way forward I felt a surge of relief... as I see it the non-molestation order is a document that says spells it out for him in writing that he has to be a decent person. I can stay living in the house and he doesn't get a criminal record unless he brings it on himself. I know it's going to cost upwards of 2k but the other option (rather than inertia) is to rent a flat and move out which I've priced up at around 10k and there are cat/dog issues.

She said that there would be no real chance of getting an occupation order (property in joint names, no specific violence or recent threats) so I guess the non-mol would say that he had to stay out of my bedroom (to be decided I guess??) and not boss me around, yell, swear, make demands etc. He is emotionally abusive and controllling, not violent. I'm thinking it will be a warning shot before the divorce petition comes his way. I might also be naively thinking that him seeing it spelled out will give him some insight into the unacceptability of his behaviour.

I spoke to a local branch of WA legal advice before and they reccomended non-mol but I didn't take it further as theysaid they only would deal with legal aid cases. I think my existing solicitor's advice was due to not wanting to rack up more charges for me (fine) and him thinking that H would possibly be OK with divorce scenario.

TBH H says he would be fine with divorce scenario 'unless I try to nick half of HIS money' -- of course I am going to pursue with a vengeance my half of our assets, I'm not stupid and know what I'd be entitled to. So he'll be fighting me for money, definitely.

Any thoughts? Experiences?

Of course you did the right thing!

un-mumsnetty hugs

Thanks am doing exactly that but 1 day in (and a bit jet lagged) I was feeling guilty that H would have enjoyed it where we are, sunny and pleasant. But I remind myself that he would have ruined the laid-back attitude, he would have taken over all the planning/activities and Dsis and I wanted to just focus on parents. I haven't told family how bad things are with H but they know he's difficult to live with, a bit selfish etc. I told them he had too much work on to come which is sort of true anyway. I think H has twigged that I've gone somewhere holiday-ish (as opposed to just visiting them at their house) and that DD has come with me. When I look at the scale of that 'deceit' I think perhaps that truly means there's no going back... So at last I've taken some action.

Get off the internet now and enjoy your time with your family.

Forget about H. You texted him and he knows where you are. So he has no reason to be the 'concerned' husband and phoning the police that his wife has gone missing.

Just forget him until your plane lands again in Heathrow.

If he has sent really abusive texts, you can go to the airport police and say that you are too scared to return home because of his behaviour. May be they will remove him from your home until you have got an order.

But worry about this later. Enjoy the sunshine.

6am here and I 'pinged' awake at about 4am! Thank goodness for wifi. Planning a trip out for today, perhaps involving a boat :-) not quite hot enough for sea-swimming but might give it a go anyway!

ha ha ha - just let him call the police!! what will he say? officer, my wife has gone to visit her family in the US!! bring her back!!!! now !!

ha ha ha aha

enjoy your time and have a wonderful break :)

leave him to stew...

don't go back there obviously on your return - go to friend/hotel/whatever other place . then get onto solicitor. for now, enjoy your break...

Still having a great time here but the emails and fb messages are still coming thick and fast-- I have responded to a couple over the week because they related to bank matters and payments we needed to make ( I deal with all th online banking) so he knows I'm getting them which probably fans the flames. DS emailed asking when I'd be back so I told him, he told H, so he knows. He's been bugging me for flight info, says he wants to meet me at the airport. Creepy, he is 'trying to be nice' but I am creeped out. Maybe 100+ emails, all of them sounding really hurt and frankly unhinged I think, but nothing specifically threatening. I have not turned my phone on since I got here so it's going to be filled with messages and texts.

Question is-- what to do now? I'm thinking go straight to police, I will need to keep up the momentum, I'm truly thinking this is clearly a situation that an uninvolved outsider would consider to be bad, but keep wondering if I've provoked it by not involving him and not giving him flight details etc. if he were rational I could have done that. If he were rational he would have asked how I was doing, how was my family etc.

I just got an email saying 5 books have been ordered on my amazon account. Books like 'how to be the wife your husband deserves' and tellingly, something about 'the 1950's housewife' I seem to remember, didn't pay much attention as I was so shocked. I let DS use my amazon account but hasn't expected H to break into it. So he may have seen my previous purchases of Lundy Bancroft, plus 'the verbally abusive man'... I actually don't care if he's seen that! Good thing I haven't yet purchased a kindle guide book to Art Deco Miami better change the password!

I know I shouldn't, but I burst out laughing at him ordering books of "wifeliness". He is clearly another deluded fucker, I'm afraid.

Have you made a decision as to how you should proceed with the divorce? Have you decided on a solicitor yet?

Clearly he is very unhappy with you asserting your independence and free-will. And 100 plus emails is excessive! You're going to have to give serious thought about how you are going to tell him. If you're in anyway fearful that he will react violently, then ring the police/go the non-mol route. However, otherwise think about a strongly worded letter from your solicitor.

ha ha..just ignore as you are doing... the emails could amount to harassment but dont sound really threatening...after all at this point in time you still married. unless you have clearly told him dont email me.

really the best thing for you to do is just go back, move out and serve divorce papers. get it legally footed.
if he does get aggressive obviously call police...

make plans to spend xmas elsewhere. ask your ds/dd which day they want to spend with their dad and split the days..they a re adults so its not like you have to make a big thing of it.

i think you are overestimating how much attention police would pay to unhinged emails - unless they actually have threats in them then they wont do much i dont think. what do you think they would do? they not going to arrest him for emailing you...

you could block him and tell him all communication to go via solicitor for example, or via a friend. until you have told him clearly what is what and moved out then he maybe just thinks you having a tiff f and he can win you back with his rants. but keep an eye on online accounts, make sure you have your own separate account..what about savings etc?

Hi, thatsnotmyname as cestlavie said, the police are not going to 'interpret' his emails to be threatening, they will just see them as a slightly paranoid husband feeling abandoned or something like this, unless he has as a matter of fact threatened you in these emails.

Have you got a separate bank account? If yes, has he got access to this? Has he got your log in details?

Can you stay with a friend when you get back?

Thanks all for the input. You're right, his emails are not threatening enough to be considered as threats. But I'm finding them ultra creepy... But nothing new really, he's had a warning for harassment for similar behaviour (back in July) and I won't feel safe going home. I need to get home for the cat, I don't think DS has been paying attention to him.

H has just sent me a list, starting with saying that he's been too lenient with me over the years and that he's going to 'take back' the bank accounts. But I am supposed to send him log in details etc. It ends with him saying I've given him 'black depression'. I mean, wtf? I actually responded, as he'd sent about 10 texts saying the same thing, saying I was sorry he felt that way but that I was focusing on my family for 10 days and that he wasn't seeing anything from anyone else's point of view, just his own. And I said if he wanted Internet banking he'd have to set it up-- I didn't tell him but my login gives access to my personal current account as well as our joint account plus my (dwindling) ISA savings and I don't want to spoon feed him access to that.

I'm truly going to have to bite the bullet and serve divorce papers before I can deal with the creepy harassment issues as police seem puzzled that I'm complaining about his behaviour yet we are 'still in a relationship' I just want him to act normally but that isn't going to happen.

WWK I am v v curious about these books, actually! I'm not sure at this point why he wants to point out that I'm a substandard wife, as my 'deceit' in visiting my family gives him the perfect opportunity to get rid of me...

cest I have no idea how we're going to do Christmas. DD was saying today that it would be nice if the three of us could rent a cottage. But I've spent enough money recently, on this holiday etc plus no pay for the 2 weeks off I'm having (as I work contract) so even though the money might be there it's H's money, IYKWIM, and I would feel guilty. Right now I'm wishing he'd be diagnosed with a brain disease/malfunction that would explain many years of fuckwittery. My Xmas wish!! I love being home at Xmas and always like cooking a big dinner (H doesn't really care and isn't happy when it's just us, he's ok if others are around and he can look good in front of them. But this year will be impossible to pretend) so I'd rather stay home. But thinking that this may not be an option.

Before you do anything else, it is important to sort out the bank account situation, so he can't empty your bank account and cut you off from your financial resources. Could you just sort this out when you are back, before you serve the divorce papers, first thing?

Get back, stay with friend, go to your bank, go to your solicitor and serve papers?

If he raids the accounts, what are you going to do?

I find it alarming that he suddenly demands complete financial control. May be to stop you from going on any more trips by yourself?

Timely message karen I've just woken up and checked my emails and he's sent a very demanding one saying SEND ME YOUR LOGIN DETAILS NOW after a diatribe/list of my faults, other things I've done wrong, amongst which he accuses me of all sorts of ridiculous things. It would be really easy for him to strip out the accounts if he had that info, I guess I could detach or hide my other account and send him the details perhaps? I feel I need to stall. We're back Thursday morning. It's just occurred to me that he doesn't even realise that I have a separate account that I have my salary paid into, so he might double-freak when he can't see when/how I bought my plane tickets. I'm suddenly feeling this is real.... as I have enjoyed, to an extent, financial 'freedom' and he has earned good money (and told me constantly that I should be at his beck and call because of it) and that's got to be over, if nothing else out of self respect. Yes, 'taking back the accounts' has been his threat for a long time and now he's intending to do it but he cannot do it without my login help-- like telling someone you're going to hit them but only if they stand very still and let you catch them!

Big day today, parents/sister are going home, DD and I move on to our next destination of a really nice 'splurge' hotel for 2 nights, in a city I've always wanted to explore. I'd originally booked our return for Friday but I brought tickets forward to Wednesday so I can get back to this crazy situation and figure out what I'm going to do. We've had a fabulous time here... A 'win' for me in my own mind as H thinks he is the only one who can plan things as I and my parents are too boring (we've been on many holidays together over the past 25 years, they've often been interesting but with H very much leading the way). To be fair it's been my sister doing most of the organising but we have been doing all the planning together and no one person is claiming the credit for the good times we've had, and my parents' limited ability to walk long distances has been respected.

Will try to stall H re bank details. I really don't think I should send them, if he does clean out 'my' savings I really won't have any access to money. Plus they always ask a question when logging in from a new computer, ie 'name of first school' and I don't think he'd know. He obviously has the intention of being financially controlling.

if it s joint account he ahs equal access and all he has to do is call the bank or go online and set up his own login details. please don't give him yours. you don't need to.
he has to set it up himself - his own login to the joint account.
unless you have put a notification on the account then you both have equal access to any joint account. But, you each set up your own individual login details. So you don't have to tell him anything let him sort it out - however I would be concerned he might be spending it all - what sort of amounts is it?

where do the household bills get paid from? whose name are they in? which account pays the mortgage?

eg I and my ex have a joint account which is currently "frozen" but both can access it individually with separate login details.

please don't under any circumstance give him YOUR login details to the joint account - he is entitled to set up his own! YOUR LOGIN IS YOURS; HIS IS HIS.

and for goodness sake don't give any login to your account sin your name only.

you need ot sit down and work out finances, what is your name, what is his name, what is joint and what bills are paid from which - if you move out you can call utilities and say take my name of the account. they will write to him if you want the bills to go under his name as the "new" account holder etc (or vice versa if he moves and you stay you can get the account set up afresh in your name only)

.."saying I was sorry he felt that way but that I was focusing on my family for 10 days and that he wasn't seeing anything from anyone else's point of view, just his own"

stop trying to explain or rationalise with him - you don't need to.

and it wont work anyway.

you don't need to feel sorry for him, nor do you need to tell him how to think. that is down to him. your thoughts and feelings are yours his are his.

if he texts about bank again just tell him to contact the bank and ask them for help in setting up online access... but make sure you know what is in joint account first and if its loadsa money (eg tens of thousands??? you know what sort of figures you talking about... if its hundreds of pounds not thousands then you need to make sure enough is in there to pay mortgage etc... ) transfer some to your own personal account ... so that you not cut short. you can fight it out later in divorce settlement.

Do not give him your login details, it's not a question of stalling but of saying no. You need to ring your bank asap and tell them that you're getting divorced and under no circumstances should they break security protocol if your husband tries to pull a trick.

If you freeze the joint account does he have his own separate account to keep him going?

Would it be possible to transfer your own funds from the joint accounts into your personal account?

I would stall, myself, rather than saying 'no'. Because he does not yet know, formally, you want a divorce. He is scrabbling around trying to regain control, the only way he can. Saying 'no' is not going to be heard.

If I were you, I'd not have email contact with anyone, your son included. Really, really stop reading emails until you get back - this way you can say that you didn't have Internet access and be credible.

When it comes down to it, I get this kind of barrage from STBXH for not 'telling' him stuff - but quite frankly, the lovely SHL has always said to me, when he sends this barrage - I have two choices. Respond politely or ignore.

Ignore is good.

She does the polite responding - if she feels it's pertinent. But if it's minor matters of administration, we both ignore it.

Because, at the end of the day, if he'd asked nicely he might have got a polite response. His choice. His outcome.

cest that is it exactly, he's asking for my login when he should have set it up under his own credentials already. His access would go to his isa account, mine is linked to mine (plus my own current account) and according to the bank I am sure that legally I'm committing some sort of fraud if I give him my details.

Twinkle I can live out of my account, as long as he doesn't clean out my savings it's ok (which he cannot do if I don't give him details which I'm not doing). We will be in a hotel for the next 2 days, no idea if I can get online (probably!) but I might send word to DS that we are out of reach until return to uk.

Sitting in McDonalds now waiting for a bus... I responded to his email to avoid an escalation of his threats and it seems to have done the trick, he's spouting more of the same but sounding desperate and pathetic more than strictly evil. Things like how I've embarrassed him, stopped him working etc. and that he expected me to have done Xmas cards by now.

WWK that's how I'm trying to play it, I haven't officially told him I want divorce yet so am trying to keep to financial status quo. Bills should be covered from joint current account. I'm paying for this trip through my private current account. He's got enough to live on, via card. He doesn't really need the login details. OMG have I ever poked a hornet's nest by going off and leaving poor diddums for a week on his own... BUT I reiterate, I DID tell him I was going, just a) didn't ask permission b) didn't beg him to come alongvso we could all enjoy his sparkling wit and extra-special organising ability and c) didn't serve him up my trip details, flights and details of locations on a plate. He could have asked... He really could have asked and he never did, just never expected me to disobey in such a fashion.

I have a 'Toadradar' Thatsnotmyname email him that it's not safe to send bank details and especially not log in details over the internet, due to ID theft etc and you will sort that out when you are back, as there is no urgency.

Also, in addition, to Karen's good idea, remember that in divorce there's no 'my' money or 'his money', just ours. And it all has to be accounted for. He can't do bugger all about you having a holiday whilst you're married, but if you or he are found to be spending excessively during separation, i.e. beyond what is normal or essential, then you may be subject to a judge's wrath (assuming you get a judge involved, of course).

When you divorce, you'll get a lot more practice at the disobeying thing, promise!

Just don't disobey solicitors, judges, barristers and policemen.

exactly - you should not give your login details to anyone. he can get his own if he desires to do so.

Oh, and tell him (from me) to shove the Christmas cards right up his arse. Sideways.

I've just read this thread through from the beginning and I'm so pleased to see that you've made it on holiday although sorry to see that your H is being such a nightmare

A couple of things occurred to me - is it possible for you to set up another ordinary bank account that you can put bits of money in that H definitely won't have access to? Even if it's not going to have much in to start with, it will mean as soon as possible after you've served divorce papers you will have a bank account to get your wage paid into and to use so you don't need to use the joint account for anything other than joint bills until the house is sold.

Also - can you set your phone (or a little voice recorder) up so that you can record any conversations you have with H - without him knowing - so that you can use them to show people how unreasonable he is - especially if he trips himself up by saying things like you didn't tell him about xyz when you have a recording of him discussing it a few days previously. Even if it's not admissible in court (I.m not a legal person, I have no idea if it is or isn't), you could certainly play it to the police if you're worried about your safety and use it to show them why you are worried.

Also remember that when he sends you emails claiming things are different from what was actually said, you should email him back to say no, actually, xyz did happen, just because you were busy I wasn't to know that meant you were ignoring me as we discussed it, I was not to realise that you would forget this again so quickly etc, so that you have got your side down in writing too. at the moment, if you don't reply (and I can imagine you don't want to as you don't want to wind him up) It means that there is only his account down as contemporaneous reporting of what happened - if you write your side down too then the judge or police or lawyers will have have to consider both sides and make up their own mind as to who is telling the truth - which again leads back to having recorded the conversations to prove that you were telling the truth!

will be keeping my fingers crossed for you that you do manage to extricate yourself and your dc safely from this odious man!