non-molestation orders- any views?

[thatsnotmynamereally]

I met a new solicitor yesterday reccomended through a friend as I wanted a fresh view on my impending (perhaps) divorce. The existing solicitor has drafted a divorce petition but it hasn't been served yet, for various reasons (mainly because I don't want to deal with having to move out and the inevitable nastiness that will ensue). When I met the new solicitor and told her about H's ongoing abusive and controlling nature she immediately suggested that I should get a non-molestation order in place ASAP and divorce issues could come after that. I'd been told the opposite by my other solicitor-- that we should test out his reaction to the divorce petition first and if needed other action could follow.

To be honest when she suggested this way forward I felt a surge of relief... as I see it the non-molestation order is a document that says spells it out for him in writing that he has to be a decent person. I can stay living in the house and he doesn't get a criminal record unless he brings it on himself. I know it's going to cost upwards of 2k but the other option (rather than inertia) is to rent a flat and move out which I've priced up at around 10k and there are cat/dog issues.

She said that there would be no real chance of getting an occupation order (property in joint names, no specific violence or recent threats) so I guess the non-mol would say that he had to stay out of my bedroom (to be decided I guess??) and not boss me around, yell, swear, make demands etc. He is emotionally abusive and controllling, not violent. I'm thinking it will be a warning shot before the divorce petition comes his way. I might also be naively thinking that him seeing it spelled out will give him some insight into the unacceptability of his behaviour.

I spoke to a local branch of WA legal advice before and they reccomended non-mol but I didn't take it further as theysaid they only would deal with legal aid cases. I think my existing solicitor's advice was due to not wanting to rack up more charges for me (fine) and him thinking that H would possibly be OK with divorce scenario.

TBH H says he would be fine with divorce scenario 'unless I try to nick half of HIS money' -- of course I am going to pursue with a vengeance my half of our assets, I'm not stupid and know what I'd be entitled to. So he'll be fighting me for money, definitely.

Any thoughts? Experiences?

FGS don't give him your login details.

If you do that, he can do whatever with the account at any time and claim it was you.

Agreed joys it would be easy for him to fritter it away. We've just had some building work done and I've paid for it out of 'my' ISA (we had equal amounts in, to be fair he has earned more than me but it is family money that we had saved not spent) and I have taken quite a bit out of mine, about 17k, about half, his is untouched.

Thanks zipzap and all, will update later, it's our last day here and I've got to get strategy in place for my return. Messages from DS at home that H being a real pain but tellingly, DS suggests we stay away for longer so H realises he's being a d* as evidently 'he is lonely'. Sounds like a plan!

I am at a loss as to how to plan for tomorrow and need to brainstorm for a bit. Flight gets in around 10am, allowing for baggage etc I will be out 12ish. I brought the tickets forward to deal with the situation during the week, so 1.5 working days before the weekend. I don't think that going home is a viable option but cat is at home. Also I've got an estate agent who has a client who wants to see our house as its 'exactly what they want' so I will need to get in and clean (house not on market yet but wouldn't it be nice if it could sell immediately, I could collect money and exit).

I guess, solicitor first. Perhaps police? I think the emails and phone messages (which I haven't heard yet) will paint a picture of harassment. And he's got form: warning for harassment in July plus caution (after night in police cell) for assault for threatening me almost exactly a year ago. So I could get an escorted visit to house, if necessary, but it would only be to collect things I imagine... Unless I get occupation order-- unlikely as he isn't violent. Another option, I could go to other house but that's more 'his' house and I would need car which I have a feeling he's not going to let me have.

I can go to DDs uni house with her but I might be better off staying in London. Perhaps with a friend who's offered. I've also got the tail end of a bad cough/cold which started before I left as a result of having to walk around for 2 days before I left (stayed with friend and then DD). I'm feeling an attack of 'poor me' coming on here! 5am. Plane leaves at 8:50 tonight so long day ahead, getting to airport etc. with bags. I'm on one of the most beautiful beaches in the world so maybe a day can be spent planning, I've got Starbucks for wifi!

H 'demanding' in no uncertain terms to have flight details. I'll pretend I didn't see email...

When will the solicitor be ready to serve the divorce/non-mol papers?

Divorce petition exists in draft format. Not sure about timing for non mol. I will email him (first solicitor, not super keen second ones as they only wanted me to do it before I left... For a big price) if sol can do it I think non mol is best option ASAP. If we have to wait due to holidays/ court times then I guess I'll have to stay away until then.

Getting non mol in place now seems the way to go, even though it will cost. Too bad h is not threatening violence or it would be free

just find somewhere to go to stay, then collect cat.

don't worry about cleaning house - if the person wants it they will look beyond tea stains and washing up in the sink - unless you think h will leave it in a real mess.

I honestly don't think the emails you have mentioned on here would amount to much for police - having been to report similar they will say ok there there - as you haven't asked him not to email you and you are married to him... you haven't served divorce papers... unless there is specific threat it wont get you very far - just keep for the solicitor. and of course if you go round and you feeling scared of what he says or does then exit and call police...

be calm and get the car first and take spare keys with you.

Yes cest that's what I will do, find another place to go and talk to solicitor about options. His emails are v scary in that he accuses me of all sorts but no specific threats. But enough to count as harassment as I've asked him over and over to stop emailing. Divorce petition has to be the way to go.

He's sent another email where he refers to the incident which got him arrested last year (for threatening to smash my face in, he told police he was within his rights to say things like that to me) as me lying and making things up. He's justified himself in his own mind and turned it around that I got him arrested and 'left him to freeze in a police cell' was my fault for making things up and being a vindictive b. And he says I can't keep the house clean and I neglected to clear the drier vent last time I used it and he is unable to work and it's my fault. It goes on and on... Says he's been a saint to put up with me.

There's no going back, is there?

Off to the airport soon! No more wifi until back in uk.

Wow. Am back at home with DCat at my side. H did a huge cleaning job and rearranged some furniture and I've been utterly confused as to his intentions which could go one of two directions: 1) you're a great person thats so I made the house all nice for your return or 2) you lazy b*!! You never clean the house so I had to do it, you're pathetic. I'm thinking its option 2! He's at the other house and will stay there tonight at least. I emailed solicitor and we were talking about getting divorce petition ready.

BUT. I just got a corker of an email, he's spelled out (badly) 30+ points on which I'm deficient... I have to pull myself together, it seems, or I'm fired. I'd be happy to share it but I don't want to cut and paste, could put it in a pm if anyone wants a laugh?? Just a taster:

2.. bank. you will take your name off the joint account and make this so only I have access.
you will set up your own account.

alt I will stop paying money into joint account. and will set up my own account.

1. You will stop spending my money. I will pay bills etc from my sole account

1. You will not work full time

1. IF you work you will organise and run a cleaner and pay from your account.

you will pay for anything else you neglect like grooming for cat and dog.

restaurants if you wont cook. you will pay your phone your petrol your insurance.

And THIS one with which I cannot comply:
18. you will stop watching family guy all the time.

FFS I like to laugh at Family Guy, not everyone's cup of tea but I like it. Just WHY??

I believe this email deserves a proper response from a solicitor. So will speed things up tomorrow.

Lordy, he has been busy. Your divorce is going to be fun.

It almost reads like a separation agreement until you get to the 'Family Guy' bit. I'd reply, with I accept this as as a separation agreement, pending "Full and Frank" disclosure, and final settlement, myself.

However, what is the 'other house' that you mention - can he not stay there post separation? That way, a strongly worded letter of 'be a good boy now' can be served alongside your divorce petition. Then if he can't, you escalate to a Non-Mol.

WWK interesting, I hadn't thought of it as a separation agreement, I was too incensed with his bossy boots tone-- 'you WILL not spend my money' coupled with 'you WILL not work' totally bonkers. On the same day they passed a law on coercive control!.

I'm so glad he's not here.

Yes go thru and tick the ones that will, work once you divorced. Separate bank accounts tick.
As for dictating what you should watch or when you should work that's just bonkers. Ignore. Laugh. Hilarious.

Another thing, he sent me some fairly explicit texts a few nights ago in one he says he needs a f&&& I'm wondering if that counts as a threat wrt getting occupation order? He also sent one on Wednesday saying I'd better beg for forgiveness...

WWK he can stay at the other house, it's in the countryside but he prefers it there, sadly it wouldn't be as simple as assigning one house to him and one to me as I'd want the London one which is worth more that the other, so it will have to be sold. But in the interim I think there's no reason he couldn't stay in the other. It may be just a question of whether to do it by formal agreement or by occupation order, I need to get a move on with serving divorce papers because I'm sure that after that bomb is dropped the real fun will begin. Not!

a husband asking his wife for sex is not a threat is it ? - serve the papers, make things clear you separated. then it s clearer for everyone. as far as he is concerned you still together and you still married.
you really need to spell it out to him.

Well the silly fucker is playing straight into your hands. Sit back and collect the evidence!

Maybe he'll divorce you on grounds of unreasonable behaviour for watching too much Family Guy. That's gotta be a first.
Good luck with getting rid of this tosser. I've read your thread with my mouth hanging open at his absurdity.

Hope you're feeling OK this morning.

I'm not sure what I'm going to do over the next few days! He's texted for the past 2 days inviting me out for 'dinner' and I've said of course I'm not going... He's just hung up the phone each time. He's expecting me and DCs out there for Christmas but again, it's not going to happen. I'm delighted for him to stay out there and me here but he could pop in at any minute, which he did on Friday afternoon. I was sitting at the table doing Xmas cards which was ironically on his list, I wasn't doing it because of that but because I thought it was rude not to send to people who'd sent to us. He picked up something he'd bought off eBay, told me I was 'mad' and 'very rude' then left.

The question is, do I make my intentions for divorce clear tomorrow via solicitor, or wait it out a few days?? He's threatening me with divorce if I break his rules, one of which is to not go into office this week and I'm planning to go in tomorrow. I'd be happy for him to lead the divorce if that would leave him feeling in control and thus be less threatening.

I get the impression of you (and I mean this is the nicest possible way) that you, in your ideal world, would have him make this life-changing decision for you, even though, in your own mind you know you want out of the marriage.

You do, either in person, or via a solicitor, need to tell him that for you, the marriage is over. At the moment, he hasn't got a clue. He believes that "If you just..." then all will be okay.

It is better for you if you file for divorce, but it's a first past the post situation in England & Wales. In divorce, no one gives a stuff about who did what to whom unless it is very, very extreme (setting fire to you, for example). He can just as readily divorce you because marriage is a voluntary choice in the UK.

I agree that he's going to go apoplectic with rage from what you say. But he's going to rage whether you petition tomorrow, a month on Tuesday or the day before he drops down dead. You're merely delaying the impact of your decision, in order for him to continue being an arse to you in the meantime!

You'll only be able to apply for the costly Non-Mol and Occ. Orders if he doesn't voluntarily agree to staying away. At the moment, you're looking for reasons to get them, but you won't unless you can satisfy a judge that you are turning to him as a last resort, not the first. I'm afraid, daft as it appears, that until he does something really bad, there's very little protection for you. It's something I've had to face up to as well so I do understand. Take care.

What WWK said. With bells and Farrah Fawcett hairdo and goldfish platform shoes on.

Just freaking do it. A very wise woman once said "no matter when and how you do it, you're going to probably ruin their day: accept the truth and be free".

I've drafted a letter which I want my solicitor to send tomorrow saying... 'I am acting for you wife, she has sent me your email dated xxx in which you outline various conditions necessary for continuation of the marriage. She had advised me that she cannot comply with these and therefore accepts your wish for a divorce. Please advise what you intend to do. Future correspondence should be through me.' Obviously solicitor will have an opinion on the best way to proceed. The reason for doing it this way is that I keep hearing that controlling men often flip when they are presented with divorce, so I'll put the ball in his court and let him think he's made a clever decision. At least it might buy me a few days while he's been informed that 1) I've made contact with solicitor and 2) I expect to divorce so he can decide how he wants to tell people and how he wants to play it.

WWK I was wondering myself whether it would benefit me on any way if I initiated divorce rather than him. I've got stacks of reasons but if it would make for an easier time I could go along with him divorcing me for unreasonable behaviour (I do watch Family Guy too much and I refused to email him my banking login and password for example) as long as it was understood that I was doing him a favour so to speak...

Non mol seems to be a side issue at the moment. He doesn't seem violent but he's emailed me many times today telling me off for various reasons, ie not going out to see him. WTF.

For all it's worth, in my opinion he does not really intend to divorce you.

If you wait for him to divorce you, you may be in for a very long wait.

When I spoke to solicitor on Friday he said something similar Karen so perhaps it would be better to say that in light of his unreasonable demands I am divorcing him. I'm officially fed up (yet again) as he's just sent an email saying, verbatim 'you had better be in all day tomorrow'. Stupid, low level stuff. I'm intending to go into work tomorrow plus deal with solicitor. So I won't be in all day. I want him OUT.

Just divorce him fir goodness sake.
You don't want to be married to him
Stop waiting for himto agree bla bla bla

Ps way back after I had told my ex it was over. He was still saying. "If you do not change your ways I wil leave" I said yes please leave.... But of course he refused to do so. I had to pick up the dc and leave. You are lucky your dc are adults.

These people don't play by the rules.
They say they want to leave because you are being unreasonable but they won't politely go if you continue to be In their eyes misbehaving.

So you need to take charge.

All this trying. To be clever and let himi make the decision to divorce you... It just won't work. He likes this little game. He won't even reply to solicitor letter (he doesn't have to).
Up to you, you can have apretend false Xmas then do it.

But you need to serve legal papers and move out /make the boundaries clear.

Who are you signing theXmas cards from ? You and him ? Just you ? What ?
Are you taking th opprtunity to say "happy Xmas by the way h and I are getting a divorce"

I think so. I am pleased that your solicitor agrees with me.

He would never divorce you. In twenty years time, he will still tell you that you butter his toast the wrong way.

Stop thinking about his feelings and making it nice for him and letting him feel,in control.
Do what you need to do for you.
This is about your future life as you. You free to do as you please and not lander to him or put up wiith his cr@p

Just do it.

Think your drafted letter is too woolly. Don't ask what dh intends to do.
Just a letter saying

"That'snot is going to divorce you, this is what happens nex..... (In terms of financial settlement etc)
Offer mediation session to sort out finances etc outline that you want to live in house x and you propose he stays in house y .