non-molestation orders- any views?

[thatsnotmynamereally]

I met a new solicitor yesterday reccomended through a friend as I wanted a fresh view on my impending (perhaps) divorce. The existing solicitor has drafted a divorce petition but it hasn't been served yet, for various reasons (mainly because I don't want to deal with having to move out and the inevitable nastiness that will ensue). When I met the new solicitor and told her about H's ongoing abusive and controlling nature she immediately suggested that I should get a non-molestation order in place ASAP and divorce issues could come after that. I'd been told the opposite by my other solicitor-- that we should test out his reaction to the divorce petition first and if needed other action could follow.

To be honest when she suggested this way forward I felt a surge of relief... as I see it the non-molestation order is a document that says spells it out for him in writing that he has to be a decent person. I can stay living in the house and he doesn't get a criminal record unless he brings it on himself. I know it's going to cost upwards of 2k but the other option (rather than inertia) is to rent a flat and move out which I've priced up at around 10k and there are cat/dog issues.

She said that there would be no real chance of getting an occupation order (property in joint names, no specific violence or recent threats) so I guess the non-mol would say that he had to stay out of my bedroom (to be decided I guess??) and not boss me around, yell, swear, make demands etc. He is emotionally abusive and controllling, not violent. I'm thinking it will be a warning shot before the divorce petition comes his way. I might also be naively thinking that him seeing it spelled out will give him some insight into the unacceptability of his behaviour.

I spoke to a local branch of WA legal advice before and they reccomended non-mol but I didn't take it further as theysaid they only would deal with legal aid cases. I think my existing solicitor's advice was due to not wanting to rack up more charges for me (fine) and him thinking that H would possibly be OK with divorce scenario.

TBH H says he would be fine with divorce scenario 'unless I try to nick half of HIS money' -- of course I am going to pursue with a vengeance my half of our assets, I'm not stupid and know what I'd be entitled to. So he'll be fighting me for money, definitely.

Any thoughts? Experiences?

He's a Toad too!

I remember it too well - only 5* trips or no trips at all! The children had the best time ever this summer on camping holidays when they could do whatever they wanted to and did not have to sit around in posh restaurants all night long bored out of their mind and also starving due to Toad's late night eating habits.

Just remain friendly and kind and caring before you go away. And apologetic. Anything to remain your usual self. This is what WA advise too. Don't demonstrate any changes in your behaviour that may make him suspicious. Continue to iron his socks and whatever it takes to keep him calm.

Oh these guys who run their own businesses and keep their family on edge all the time about going bust while they are spending money left right and centre. I've been there. If they can't handle the pressure, they should go and get a job and be done with it. But they don't want to do this, because then they would have to report to someone else, as opposed to bossing everybody around and getting their own way.

Another reason for short term announcement of divorce, so you can keep an eye on the asset position. Hope he won't go bust, or you may end up having to pay him spousal maintenance.

Sitting here feeling v sorry for myself. H came back tonight from other house where building project's going well. Not a word said about my impending trip (that's got to be an elephant in the room!) but he was so dismissive of my attempts at conversation, I told what I thought was a funny story to DS and H shouted at me to stop prattling on as he was watching a show on TV (about ww2 as usual) and made a big point of telling me how boring I was. We are going to a nice dinner/ceremony tomorrow night (don't ask why please! Arranged through mutual friend from ages ago who has no idea about our 'problems') and as I've been the go-between (only organised yesterday and I'm trying to keep things normal) he started complaining about the venue, the theme of the evening, said he might not bother coming (to which I said sad-faced that it'd be ok LOL it really would!). He's demanded that I make him cups of tea and, because he fancied it, some cookie dough (he thought he was being nice by not sending me out for maltesers). I could have stood my ground and refused-- but what's the point, it would have just infuriated him.

I thought about the fact that I could have been in court today getting an injunction against him. I'm glad I cancelled it for all the right reasons but it would be so nice just to get rid of him. He's upstairs and made it clear that I should come up soon (as opposed to sleeping on sofa). I'm busy at work so the rest of the week should go by in a flash-- then only a week until my trip. Gulp.

One day at a time. Just each day at a time. Once you're away, you'll get the necessary headspace to decide how to go forward with divorce.

In the interim, do not be hard on yourself for doing whatever it is you have to do to get on holiday.

Including feeling very sorry for yourself.

WWK I hope you got some sleep! I keenly follow your thread and (rather pathetically) I just love the way NSTBX is shooting himself in the foot. We can watch and snigger but it's gut-wrenching stuff, isn't it.

It really changes here from one minute to the next. Last night he was fairly vile to me, usual low-level stuff. This morning I left (snuck out really) before he was awake although I left him a cup of coffee by the bed as a goodwill gesture. We're going to a function tonight and it could go either way wrt his mood. But he's just called and we spoke reasonably, just like old times, but I realize that old times depended on me being alert to his every mood and always saying exactly what he wanted to hear anything that would deviate had to be (well, still has to be) sugar coated to the nth degree. This isn't right, is it? I have a sense of impending doom but I think it's more to do with getting all my ducks in a row, so to speak, before my trip so I can be ready to act at a momen't notice if needed, if he decides that 1)I'm not going 2)he's coming along 3)he's going to cause havoc when I'm gone. And to plan how things are going to go when I come back from my trip need a plan B in place, definitely. Perhaps a return plane to the USA if it comes to it, with both DC's.

Ok. It was a totally sh*t evening. Luckily we were there with other people,he was nice with them but totally horrible with me. He is of course trying to ruin my trip. He pulled out a newspaper article about taxes and handed it to me saying 'you can't go to the states'. He then told me that he expected to be asked. And that I never told him, and that he's been v busy recently. I told him that I had mentioned it on Monday, he denied it. I'm thinking of getting in touch with solicitors again.

Oh, and he said that I am not allowed to go to work tomorrow.

Yes, love it is gutwrenching, but there is always humour in me. He takes that away, he defeats me. Fucker took everything else anyway, 'cept the cats, but apparently they can be rehomed as can I. Asked cats about living in a caravan, and they nearly rehomed themselves. We are back on speaking terms. Perhaps they got hungry, dunno.

I will sleep in six weeks and three days. Woohoo.

Until, I shall be a bouncing bunny on every one's else's threads!

May I ask if your DC's hold British Nationality, if so please do familiarise yourself with 'child abduction' rules as I would hate you to fall foul of those (and it can be easily done, and very, very costly to put right). These men, once entered into 'righteous indignation' zone, will make all sorts of accusations, occasionally some of them may be mildly true-ish. Mostly not though.

Do talk and listen to your solicitor very, very carefully. Even if it feels 'unfair' or 'wrong' whatever advice you are given, divorce can be a very nasty business so you don't want to gift anything to the otherside. And it seems yours has the potential...

1. Your holiday is essential.
2. So is your job.

Please do go back to your solicitor about this. I realise that you have to tread carefully, but they do document everything for you, even telephone calls so it's worth keeping them abreast (albeit it's very expensive!) if things are taking a turn for the worst.

Horrible night's sleep (on sofa) and have woken up wondering wtf to do? He wants me to stay home today so not go to work, he wants to 'talk to me'. Now I've found out he is properly angry about not having been told about the trip. I prefer knowing actually. I have a new sort-of plan-- I am committed to the trip but I can make it shorter, my parents are only there for a week and I'd made our trip (DD and I) 4 days longer as I thought we could do some exploring. But it's not necessary and I can change the return date so return the Monday rather than the Friday as I'd planned. Then I have a few working days in which to serve divorce papers and get myself and DS moved out. This situation is ridiculous. I even told a little white lie (when he was shouting about me not telling him) and said that my dad might be ill. He still hasn't asked how my dad is... In all his ranting at me 'I expect to be asked to come' etc he's only thought about himself.

I don't think I'd enjoy myself being over there with dd having an adventure while he's stewing over here. And if I cut my trip short I still retain the moral high ground as it really is just a family trip. Then I can use the extra days already booked off of work to get him out. I could rebook the expensive solicitors for that week and get the non mol, then serve divorce papers the week before Xmas. Then I could get occupation order if needed, or just book another place to stay over Xmas.

He told me last night that he was deciding which girls he was going to f*ck when I'm away (presumably to make me mad) and luckily he couldn't see me as I was shaking with hysterical laughter, had to properly restrain myself. I really think he has mental problems, he really doesn't see how utterly abhorrent he is.

Of course only you can judge his reactions, but try not to compromise on your trip. I had the same reaction about seeing my parents the other day and some cruel comments. Can you phone someone and tell them to be on standby in case you need help? Have your phone in your hand while you are talking to him. In a rush, but thinking of you.

Thanks Karen feeling v angry right now, with him and with myself!

Tbh cutting the trip short might be w good idea anyway, I talked with DS yesterday and he's happy to stay 'home alone' and look after the cat but there's a limit to his abilities, cat isn't quite right at the moment (getting older, had a cat-stroke a few weeks ago) and might need vet attention if he deteriorates (fine at the moment). I can't see H being in the picture where cat care is concerned. I'd only be moving the return date from Friday back to Monday to give me the benefit of a few working days when I get back, parents are leaving on the Sunday anyway so we won't be cutting our time short with them.

This is a ridiculous situation and it has been for a long time. I feel guilty no matter what I do. DS cannot stand H and I don't want to leave him alone for too long. If H were out of the picture I would have no qualms whatsoever. I'm just not sure that I trust the ££ solicitors as they were so hasty but at least they're go-getters and I need that sort of kick. But I cannot get litigious until I return from this trip. Aargh! Should have planned this better! Will try to speak to sols on phone today to get an opinion and if so book non mol day for my return.

Thatsnotmyname be careful. Should you not call 101 at least to say that your H is threatening you? Or preventing you to go to work? what will he do if you say you are going to work? Sorry don't want to panic you but I have learnt my lesson so to speak. Why do you have to talk to him?
Also if you are not in divorce proceedings I don't think your H can do anything about the children going with you. Check with sol. But if it's ok just go and do things when you come back. I am learning there is no moral high ground really. Hope I haven't misinterpreted things. Be strong.

I am having the worst time. I think I might try to get out and go to work. But have been really sobbing this morning and am a total mess . So tempted to call police again/log harassment again/talk to solicitors, anyone, but I don't want to give the game away.

Yes adorably there is no moral high ground, he just totally destroyed my 'reasoned arguments' that didn't he care about my well being, my parents, my sister having to deal with everything on her own, by stressing the point that I 'never think about him' and he thinks that 'I never relly cared about him' presumably because I don't have sex with him enough and I could not in all honesty disagree.

OP you really must log this partly as it will help later in with your orders.

Ring 101 and log the fact that he prevented you from going to work and is hassling you. If you want you can say you don't want any action taken right now as it will wind him up, you're divorcing anyway, you're about to go abroad and can't cope with anything more.

Your argument was perfectly reasonable and he didn't 'destroy' it, he simply dismissed it in favour of his own argument that you 'never think about him'. He's a narcissist and fruit loop. Don't let yourself be influenced by what is simply abusive nonsense designed to control you into believing he's the victim.

How long ago is it that you have previously called the police because of his behaviour? What did they say and how did he react?

Please be careful.

Phone WA and ask for advice. Have you got a support worker at the moment? If yes, is she on standby?

If you think you are not safe, take your keys, car keys, phone and your coat and leave the house.

pmd you.

Please do give WA a ring. This is no way to live. Everything yours says to you, mine said to me. I didn't "care enough" enough either, well if he "cared enough" he wouldn't feel the need to isolate you from friends and family. Because if he "cared enough" he would be happy for you to be happy.

And if he "cared enough", he'd not be making you live in such misery. Time to get action.

Please, again, ring WA. In the absence of him "caring enough", you learn to take care of yourself. And it starts the moment, you want to.

Really dreadful morning but I am at work now. He drove me here then going on to other house. He had wanted me to go with him, to 'bunk off' from work for a day but that didn't happen. Awful time in car, with him lecturing me on what a bad mother I am. Evidently the reason that DD hasn't spoken to him for 4 months (because of an incident in the summer when he got agressive with her) is down to me not being more firm with her telling to stop the 'silliness'. She is at uni, I went out to see her one day a few weeks ago by coach (as he had the car). I'd managed to hold my toungue but when he said for the milllionth time that I must not care about her because I hadn't been to see her I said I'd been out to see her, he went slightly ballistic and a lot was said on both sides, he said I was deceitful and I retaliated and shouted at him too. I arrived at work with red eyes and emotionally fragile. Bad. I think I'm going to leave for a bit and think about either cooling off or moving out. This cannot go on, can it.

No this will not go on, because you are getting divorced.

look you need to move out. if ds livs there so does he.

you need to restrict and limit your contact with h. stop getting lifts with him

don't curtail your holiday.

you don't need his permission.
the dc are adults so there is no issue with child abduction either.

he can tell you all he likes not to go to work or anywhere but you are an adult and a free woman - he cannot stop you with words.

carry a charged up mobile at all time - do you have your own mobile no your name? is it in his name?

if it is get a cheap payg mobile.

sorry about your cat but really your safety and well being is key.

I don't think police will do too much as telling them "my husband said I could not go to work" is not really a violent threat - tho of course is part of bigger picture.... but they will just advise you to leave as you are an adult and there are no young children. if you say "he said I could not go to visit my family" again - they will just say madam you are an adult and you don't need his permission. concrete threats to physically stop you - yeh report them.

you need to get yourself mentally ready while away to cut those ties. there is NOTHING to hold you to stay with your h a moment longer. you can walk away. leave the material trappings behind. you can sort them out later.

there is nothing to stop your DS walking away either. tho he too may need emotional support (and a new mobile)

put cat in a cattery. leave them enough money for vet fees.

but yes call WA and talk it through you need to hear it.

you need to stop "thinking" about leaving and start saying "I am not going back there after my holiday" "I am not going to be n the same house/car/room as h any more" .
say it and mean it - because you don't have to be around him AT ALL.

Thanks cest, I know it's come to this but I need to leave this house. I am simultaneously angry about this and reqigned to the fact, I've been to the police and showed them a strange email he sent me... I really think that disappearing is my best bet and perhaps now rather than when I return from the trip. He has now failed my test-- he has shown that he is furious about me planning the trip without his permission, from his email:

Ive told you for years to go see your parents
You are nasty about and make up anything about me that justifies your own inadequancy.
in comparison with other people:
They go away together or separatly the difference is it is planned . and agreed.

I stated on the phone ON MONDAY that i was busy and expected an invite.

You live in your own world and make thing up.

I am busy and expect a wife to support me .

It goes on for 2 pages, gets worse but no specific threats, and ends with a directive for me to come out tonight. Please confirm to me that this is the rantings of a madman!

BTW police said just to go back to solicitors and do what they say re: non-mol. Fair enough.

Yes he's mad.

Have you got time to get your stuff into storage before you go away?