MIL problems..

[Happymum1985]

Thought id post here as really feel at a loss about what to do.. Sorry for the essay, its been going round and round in my head.

My DH is an only child and has always had a close relationship with his mum. She has had a troubled life and because of this, has quite a few issues. Up until DS was born last year, I found her hard work and quite demanding, but we managed to get along fine and I always made effort to see her and have contact with her because having a relationship with her was important to me.

Looking back there were signs she possibly didnt like me, because her reaction when DH told her about our engagement and pregnancy were very odd (she said she was busy and would call back later and hung up the phone). There was the odd thing like her wanting to go on holiday (on her own) with DH for two weeks (two years in a row) and expecting him to go down and stay with her a week before DS was born to 'dig holes in her garden' ?! But again, I tried to be tolerant of all this. She is on her own and doesnt have friends so I understood she was lonely.

Once DS had been born it started to go downhill fast. She came to stay with us the day I got out of hospital even though I had specifically said no visitors. When I got back and she showed up, I didnt have the energy/ didnt want to cause a scene so bit my tongue. She then proceeded to stay for 4 nights and didnt lift a finger to help, wanted to hold DS all the time when I was still in the stage when I felt like I wanted to bond with him and hold him all the time. There was a time il never forget when my DH had popped out and she said she was hungry and me- the mug- was trying to bend down to get plates etc and prepare lunch for her 5 days after a c-section whilst she held DS. Every time she came to stay subsequently she was the same- expecting hotel service and not understanding things had changed.

The last time I saw her was 4 months ago when she came to stay and everything exploded. In a nutshell, she had worked herself up into a rage- we didnt realise- because she wanted time alone with my DH and apparently she had told me this in the morning and we had agreed she could have this time alone with him (i do also find this slightly rude!) -I had totally forgot about this so rather than saying anything she had got really angry. Anyway, i was cooking and passed DS to DH. As I did so, she snatched DS out of my arms and stormed past me saying DS needed to sleep and DH was exhausted. I was fuming, DS started crying and DH sat there like a shell shock victim not knowing what to do. I stormed up after her and retrieved DS (I dont know what came over me but i was shaking in rage). She then stayed upstairs for about half an hour and DH took her out for a walk. On this walk she slagged me off and basically told him she wouldnt be coming to stay again as she found me stressful to be around, that I was a bad mother, a nasty person etc and tried to stir problems between my DH and I by saying I didnt seem to want to spend time with him..

Since she left we have had zero contact. My DH told her that she owed me an apology. She refused to apologise which infuriated me more, and made no contact. It is my DS birthday in a couple of weeks and she said she wanted to come up to see him on his birthday. We have told her we are having a family day but that she can visit around the time of his birthday. She then asked if she could stay at our house (she has no shame!!). My DH said he would speak to me.

When he got back to her and said no, and pointed out to her that she had previously said she couldnt bear to stay with us and would stay in a hotel for her next visit, she announced that she had already booked her train ticket. She then said she didnt have enough money to stay in hotel (rubbish) and said she would meet me for a coffee before staying at our house to 'sort things out' My DH pointed out that she was being a little naive by thinking all could be forgotten after a quick coffee...she also upset my DH by saying its hurting her that he is 'choosing me over her'. He told me last night that it feels unnatural to tell his mum she cant stay.

Am I being unreasonable? Am I doing the right thing? I have stuck to my guns and said she is welcome to come and see DS around his birthday and that I will meet up with her to talk but that she is not welcome to stay. I don't trust her and feel like she is someone that enjoys drama and creating problems and her demands on my DH's time are not conducive to a normal functional relationship. I don't hate anyone, but I think I might hate her.. I just have so much anger and resentment there that I don't know if I can get rid of... I know things cant go on like this but I cant bear her and dont know how to move forward...

This is a prime example of how she will always try to shift boundaries and control things OP. I'm sorry that your DH has offered to pay half, although in his defence, having a parent like this (I have two) can make you feel pulled in all directions and standing up to them can be truly terrifying.

I still think you should very much stand firm though

It's tough for you, but it's even tougher for your husband, because it's his mother and he really cannot see things clearly.

Paying for half of her accommodation sounds like a good compromise. That way, you can always hold it over her head.

You need to make it clear to your husband that he cannot go behind your back in his dealings with his mother. You can compromise somewhat sometimes (for your husband's sake, not for his mother's), but the essential thing here is that you present a united front. And that his mother knows it. She is trying to divide and rule.

i remember a classic thread on manipulative/narcissist MIL issues (Not all MILs!) where the OP had a good outcome, and actually was able to help her husband see some of the game playing and get away from some of the years of conditioning

Not the same situation but some of her strategies might be useful
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/642468-I-39-ve-just-received-a-text-from-MIL-which

I thought about this overnight (yay insomnia!) and came to the conclusion that had your husband spoken to you about it beforehand, it would be endurable for your husband to pay for half the hotel bill, even if it was a bit iffy on your mother's finances.

As it is, the underhand way it's been done makes this not ok. ... er, distancecall put it better :)

Meerka thanks, you have been SO good to talk to you have no idea how much I have appreciated it!!! I cant get that link to work that Dida sent but I will try and search it. Distancecall after reading your response I spoke to DH this morning and said that I thought it was a good compromise and that I was sorry. We have said we really mustnt argue about it.. I must try and stick to this. If we argue its almost like shes winning...

Lotta its helpful to hear from someone in his shoes so to speak. Really trying not to focus too much on myself in this and think how hard it all is for DH

yes ... it is hard for him ... but it has to be a balance. she can't ride roughshod over you and he -has- to support you. even protect you from her, cause around the time your baby was born you needed protection and he didn't provide it.

I'll probably come back here again just before the dreaded meeting for some moral support/ peptalking from you lovely lot. I've found that thread.. a lot of it rings scarily true for me too!!!

What do you want to achieve from such a meeting?. Honestly, applying solutions like this to people who are basically dysfunctional like his mother is does not work.

It will likely not go at all well.

I wouldn't be meeting, mainly because it might seem a good idea now, but you'll probably be a nervous wreck in the days leading up to it. Why put yourself through that? She isn't worth it.

If she is coming to the party, let her come, and say what she has to say (apology etc) to you at the party.

Getting you to meet you is another form of control and she will probably, at best fake being contrite about it all.

Stick to your guns and don't let her stay. Don't pay for her hotel. Don't pay for her bad behavior. Just go back to her and say you have had a big bill and you cant afford to pay for half her hotel bill now.

Don't meet her!

No good can come of it.

My DM is like your MIL in many ways by the sounds of it. If it was my DM it would just be an excuse to verbally abuse you, "explain" how right she is, how bad you are and twist everything you say later. My DM would be determined to make herself as much of a victim as possible.

Has the meeting actually been properly arranged yet?

Find any way you can to cancel. Or send your DH instead. Even if you have to invent D&V from a bad curry 5 mins before the meeting.

If you feel you absolutely must meet alone, say as little as possible, let her talk and let it wash over you.

Do not attempt to argue, discuss or justify yourself to her.

I find it helps to think of my DM as Kevin the Teenager in a strop or a toddler desperately trying to have a tantrum about not being allowed to eat Haribo for breakfast. You just don't get into a discussion.

On the rare occasions I am obliged to talk to my DM, I make point keeping an "unhinged" tally in my head. Every time she says something that no normal person would ever say, or that was an outright lie, I add to the mental tally. It helps to remind me that she is unhinged, not me, no matter what she says.

Reward good behaviour with polite conversation but any hint of nonsense and I get all eyebrows raised, hard Paddington stares, "I am leaving now because you are being rude to me. We can talk when you are ready to behave properly". That last one is incredibly liberating: your heart will race as you stand up and walk out without a glance back, ignoring any squealing, as you go round the corner you will want to punch the air.

I think you need to start reading about Toxic Families, and supporting your DH in putting distance between himself and his mother. You could start with the Stately homes thread.

Make sure as far as possible you always have an escape route when seeing her. So not her staying at your home, try keeping her out of your home asap - so you can leave early if necessary, try to be out in public as much as possible - could make her behave better.

There is a reason she doesn't have many people around her. Your mother may live alone, but does she have friends? Hobbies? etc..

I would LOVE not to have to meet her, but I feel for the sake of DH that I must at least try. I do feel she is forcing herself on me though, just because its clearly just dawned on her that she is missing out and this situation is no longer suiting HER. The way things are at the moment, she is like a black cloud over my happy family life. And I worry she is at risk of spoiling my future. I tried to talk to DH about it last night but he just shuts down now. I think she has done his head in so much that it has stressed him out above and beyond. He literally gets a tension headache if I try and talk about it in any less than positive terms.

She isnt coming to the party. She was invited, but declined saying she was busy. She gets very nervous in group social situations- plus maybe even SHE might feel awkward seeing all my family. The plan is (and yes zippey I am already feeling sick thinking of it!!!) she will come up the day after DS's birthday in the afternoon. I will meet her for a coffee in a coffee shop with DS whilst DH at work, and then leave.

I have told DH he can then go out and spend the evening with her on his own. I am working the following day, so much to her delight, she will be spending the day with DH and DS without me being there. It makes me feel so angry thinking about me being at work, and her then coming over to my home sitting like the cat that got the creme with DH and DS wishing I didnt exist!!

We are paying for half her accomodation as DH refuses to see that this is ridiculous. How she can have the front to take money from her son when we don't have much anyway and the only person she has to look after on her wage is herself, is beyond me.

I have no idea how she will be at this meeting. She has always been fakely over the top nice to my face- apart from the outburst. All the bad mouthing of me is done behind my back.

@mummytime My mum lives alone yes, as my DF died a couple of years ago. She has plenty of hobbies and friends however, and is a lovely kind woman.. makes the contrast between her and my MIL even stronger!!

You will likely further resent your DH going forward for putting your through any meeting with his mother. Meeting for his sake is not good enough a reason to meet up with her either.

I have seen this type of scenario played out before and it will not go well for either of you. Your DH will likely be stunned into both silence and inertia by having direct contact with his mother and she will blame you for all her inherent ills. If she is a narcissist in terms of her personality you could well certainly cop the full force of her rage. Your DH is basically not strong enough in himself to stand up to her due to her inbuilt conditioning, the FOG puts in an appearance yet again and she will seek to further divide you. There is no reasoning with such disordered people like his mother and he is still seeking her approval, approval that she will never give him.

I would not leave your son with her either even though your H is with him.

He has to realise that his own inertia is only and further hurting his own family unit now. Paying half her accommodation costs further rewards her bad behaviour towards you both; it will not stop there either and she could well get him to pay out again.

Your husband is throwing you into the lions den. He's being spineless and allowing her to walk all over you.
I've been there with my dp and Bil. It wasn't until I snapped and told do some home truths about how much he had let me down by allowing his brother to bully me and push me out of our children's lives did it change. I told him if he wasn't prepared to stand up for himself so be it but I would not be walked over anymore for the sake of appeasing him. The next time his brother kicked off at him my partner went to bits and told him if he took issue with what we decided to speak to me directly cos he was sick of being kicked off at by him. His brother than sent me a manipulative, pitiful text asking what more he could do as he had tried everything and we would never be friends but why does that mean I can't be trusted to look after my nieces. This isn't fair on Mr fudga being put in the middle all the time blah blah blah.
I got on the phone to him and told him straight that the reason he wouldn't be looking after our children is because he undermines is constantly, that he is a bully and that the only person putting his brother in the middle was him by trying to make him choose consistently between the two of us all the time. I told him that until his attitude changed I did not want to be around him and nor did I want for him to play a big part in my children's lives as he isn't currently a role model. I gave examples of the times he has undermined us, the times he has kicked off when dp has said what our wants are for our children and I asked him outright what made him think he had the right to disrespect me or my partner that way..pointed out he isn't their parent and he has no say in anything. He started off by trying to shout me down like he does my dp, when that didn't work he tried the manipulation-I pointed out to him I found what he was saying manipulative. By the end of the conversation he didn't utter a word against what I said and said he understood my point. He then got on the phone to my dp and said it wasn't his business what was said but basically he has no place in our lives. Dp told him that he knows full well that wasn't what I said but that his place was as a brother and an uncle not as someone trying to push me out. He then told him the situation was between himself, me and Bil as he supported everything I said and he was sick of being forced to choose when there was no choice. For the first time in nearly 5 years Bil is keeping his behaviour in check now because even though I had to do the actually standing up for myself, dp backed me 100% and he has everytime since. I only now speak to Bil when he visits, Dp is happier knowing that when we make decisions together he can stand up proud and say actually it is my decision too-you don't have to like it but you will respect it.

Your partner needs to support you and by sending you by yourself with your child he isn't he is putting you firmly back in the firing line and sitting on his fence. I told my dp no more of that, it wasn't fair on me and it wasn't fair on my children and he finally got the strength to stand up for us all. No good will come out of this meeting, she will use it in her own way to twist and turn him against you. I still get anxious at the mention of Bil but do understands he let me down in the past and he is firmly there now protecting me and has my back. You need to make him understand that he is not helping anyone by being gutless. He's scared, that's understandable but if he is how does he think you feel? And it's not your doing.

Don't meet her on your own, Happymum. I know people have already said this, but I just feel the need to say it again! I suspect TheLittleOne's description of what the meeting will be like - endless self-justification & twisting of the facts - is spot on.

And I'm sorry, but I think your DH is being really unfair to you here. The very fact that he's in favour of this meeting suggests he sees the scenario as a bit of a problem between you & his mum, which you two can sort out without him, letting him remain an innocent bystander.

I tried to talk to DH about it last night but he just shuts down now. I think she has done his head in so much that it has stressed him out above and beyond. He literally gets a tension headache if I try and talk about it in any less than positive terms.

He's being a coward & taking advantage of your willingness to compromise & understand how hard it is for him. And of course it is hard, it's his mum. But he doesn't seem to be prepared to take on board how stressful this is for you either. It's not good enough to tell you he gets a headache whenever you try & raise a difficult subject. I actually think that's quite a manipulative tactic for him to be using - not unlike some of the ways his mum has behaved, by the sounds of it.

I'm not meaning to slag your husband off, Happy, but I think you need to be fair to yourself here too, because I'm not sure anyone else is. Tell him you're not going to meet his mum by yourself. You don't feel comfortable with it, it's making you feel very anxious, & you can't trust her not to be abusive. The problem involves all of you, & if he wants there to be a meeting about it, that will involve all of you too. He can't make you go alone.

You really shouldn't have to go to this meeting on your own, but if you really can't back out of it, make it the very last one, and make it clear to your husband that from now on you won't be seeing his mother without him. It's HIS mother, and essentially HIS problem. While you are happy to help him, you cannot be expected to deal with her on your own.

If you do have to go, make it extremely boring for her. Refuse to engage in any meaningful discussion. If she wants to talk about you and your problems with her, tell her that you would rather discuss those things when he son is with you, and change the subject. "Ooooh, isn't it getting chilly?" and so on.

Boring boring boring dull dull dull. Be bland, my friend. And then go home and tell your husband.

Oh, and if she plays nicey-nicey with your, play along. Although you can throw some (outwardly irreproachable) barbs there if you feel like it. If she praises your son, for example, you can say "Yes, I'm so proud that I get to be his mother", of something like that.

Happy, you sound similar to me about 10 years ago.

I had been with dh for 14 years already and was always happy when MIL visit were over. If all came to a head when ds was 10 months and she stayed for Xmas. Xmas day (like others we had spent with her) was awful, full of arguments (not me as I bite my tongue when she comes, but BIL and dh. Everyone gets on great when she's not there).

Anyway...immediately after she'd gone and we were recovering from the visit, I told dh that now we had ds things had to change. MIL was more than welcome to visit anytime but not stay over as it always got too intense. Irrelevant of whose fault it was, we all needed our own space. We would also not have Xmas day again with her as I didn't want ds to have any Xmas's like that, boxing day etc fine, but not Xmas day.

10 years on we have stuck with it and I get on much better with MIL and so does dh. Its not perfect, but she seems to try harder not to stir things. I've almost got to the point where I have considered asking her to stay again, but as dh says - if its not broken no need to fix it.

(And she pays for her own hotel!)

Hello OP

Do not meet her alone - either have your mum there too or have
your husband there. You need witnesses. By rights this coffee ought
to be her saying sorry but I just don't see it.
As for paying half of the hotel, if cash is short then Dh should be saying it is an early Xmas present. You cannot afford to be doing that every time and nor
should you if she has no intentions of apologising.

I'm not being funny, but you know she is trying to get inbetween you and won't report it back to him the same way. So if you are insisting on going in order to show willing [although in my book, that is not your responsibility] then at least tape the bloody meeting so that you can replay it when she reports back what you allegedly said about her.

Personally I think you are going to get railroaded and aren't up to the meeting, bearing in mind you are unable to turn the meeting down. Which doesn't bode well.

Lets back track on this whole meeting thing. She said she would meet you. She didn't ask you. She is currently running the show here. Tell him that IF she actually asks you then you will consider it. Until then, she is not the boss of you. And no meeting.

Several options here.

(a) You can always say you are unable to go on your own. Really. Don't let your MIL think that you are at her beck and call.

(b) Change the time so that you can husband can come with you. In the future, never agree to see your MIL without your husband being present.

(c) If you feel there is no way out, why not ask a relative or a friend to come along? Your MIL has no reason to object.

I would text her and say you'd rather not meet but instead you would like to put what happened behind you and move on. Hopefully she will be relieved about this and agree not to meet.

Then just avoid. Avoid. Avoid. As much as possible.

Also it might be worth accepting that you aren't going to be one of her favourite people in this lifetime. However your dh and son obviously like her and want to spend time with her, to understand this, think of how much you enjoy spending time with your own DM.

Let them enjoy their time together and use it as a chance to have some time alone or to visit friends/family.

Good luck

You don't have to go out and meet her for coffee. It will just result in her going out with your DH and either twisting what you said or outright lying. I would not agree to the plans for the next day either.

I would insist that until all issues are satisfactorily resolved, the only contact is you, DH and DS together with MIL (unless DH goes to visit her alone).