MIL problems..

[Happymum1985]

Thought id post here as really feel at a loss about what to do.. Sorry for the essay, its been going round and round in my head.

My DH is an only child and has always had a close relationship with his mum. She has had a troubled life and because of this, has quite a few issues. Up until DS was born last year, I found her hard work and quite demanding, but we managed to get along fine and I always made effort to see her and have contact with her because having a relationship with her was important to me.

Looking back there were signs she possibly didnt like me, because her reaction when DH told her about our engagement and pregnancy were very odd (she said she was busy and would call back later and hung up the phone). There was the odd thing like her wanting to go on holiday (on her own) with DH for two weeks (two years in a row) and expecting him to go down and stay with her a week before DS was born to 'dig holes in her garden' ?! But again, I tried to be tolerant of all this. She is on her own and doesnt have friends so I understood she was lonely.

Once DS had been born it started to go downhill fast. She came to stay with us the day I got out of hospital even though I had specifically said no visitors. When I got back and she showed up, I didnt have the energy/ didnt want to cause a scene so bit my tongue. She then proceeded to stay for 4 nights and didnt lift a finger to help, wanted to hold DS all the time when I was still in the stage when I felt like I wanted to bond with him and hold him all the time. There was a time il never forget when my DH had popped out and she said she was hungry and me- the mug- was trying to bend down to get plates etc and prepare lunch for her 5 days after a c-section whilst she held DS. Every time she came to stay subsequently she was the same- expecting hotel service and not understanding things had changed.

The last time I saw her was 4 months ago when she came to stay and everything exploded. In a nutshell, she had worked herself up into a rage- we didnt realise- because she wanted time alone with my DH and apparently she had told me this in the morning and we had agreed she could have this time alone with him (i do also find this slightly rude!) -I had totally forgot about this so rather than saying anything she had got really angry. Anyway, i was cooking and passed DS to DH. As I did so, she snatched DS out of my arms and stormed past me saying DS needed to sleep and DH was exhausted. I was fuming, DS started crying and DH sat there like a shell shock victim not knowing what to do. I stormed up after her and retrieved DS (I dont know what came over me but i was shaking in rage). She then stayed upstairs for about half an hour and DH took her out for a walk. On this walk she slagged me off and basically told him she wouldnt be coming to stay again as she found me stressful to be around, that I was a bad mother, a nasty person etc and tried to stir problems between my DH and I by saying I didnt seem to want to spend time with him..

Since she left we have had zero contact. My DH told her that she owed me an apology. She refused to apologise which infuriated me more, and made no contact. It is my DS birthday in a couple of weeks and she said she wanted to come up to see him on his birthday. We have told her we are having a family day but that she can visit around the time of his birthday. She then asked if she could stay at our house (she has no shame!!). My DH said he would speak to me.

When he got back to her and said no, and pointed out to her that she had previously said she couldnt bear to stay with us and would stay in a hotel for her next visit, she announced that she had already booked her train ticket. She then said she didnt have enough money to stay in hotel (rubbish) and said she would meet me for a coffee before staying at our house to 'sort things out' My DH pointed out that she was being a little naive by thinking all could be forgotten after a quick coffee...she also upset my DH by saying its hurting her that he is 'choosing me over her'. He told me last night that it feels unnatural to tell his mum she cant stay.

Am I being unreasonable? Am I doing the right thing? I have stuck to my guns and said she is welcome to come and see DS around his birthday and that I will meet up with her to talk but that she is not welcome to stay. I don't trust her and feel like she is someone that enjoys drama and creating problems and her demands on my DH's time are not conducive to a normal functional relationship. I don't hate anyone, but I think I might hate her.. I just have so much anger and resentment there that I don't know if I can get rid of... I know things cant go on like this but I cant bear her and dont know how to move forward...

So I am meeting her at three. I feel sick, have a tension headache and kind of like I'm on the verge of tears but also angry and really dont want to see her face. You are all right, every ounce of instinct I have is saying don't meet her. And yet off I go.

Why I am meeting her is as follows (I am reminding myself here haha)

1. For DH
2. Because since all this kicked off we have never met face to face and I almost feel for my OWN mental health I need to talk it out a bit.
3. Because I feel I have to at least TRY to sort things out or improve things a little.

I am going to get a grip and pull myself together in a minute. I have said 3 as I will need to leave after about 45 mins. She wanted to go for a walk but I said no. I figured if we are in a public place i can get up and walk away at any point but if we go for a walk I'm trapped with her.

I can't remember the last time I felt like this. I didnt realise I had so much anger in me still towards her. But you are all so right that I MUST remain calm and not bite at anything she says. I have already said to DH that I am worried that she will twist our conversation, but he has said not to worry and he is backing me,and that all he asks is I meet her and do my best.

Her own neice messaged me last night wishing me luck today (DH had told her what was going on after MIL called my Aunty about it) and telling me to stand my ground. At least his family seem to understand what I am dealing with I guess. I will come on here this evening and let you know how it has gone...

Oh and brassbrass DH can't come with me unfortunately- I did ask him to. He is working today and then this evening I will be at home with DS when he goes for dinner with her. Tomorow I am working. I don't want to speak to her in my home because I don't want to feel pushed into a corner at all. At least in a neutral place I can walk away.

He did also say that he thinks it is important we meet together to try to reconnect without him there...

I really REALLY hope you are planning to record this conversation!!

Seriously, get this sorted - record on your phone, can you?

Don't try to talk about it, she won't listen.

Just remember what she said about you to your husband.

She doesn't think that she has done anything wrong, or doesn't care if she has.

This is about getting back in.

She'll have you agreeing that she can stay at yours again if you're not careful.

He did also say that he thinks it is important we meet together to try to reconnect without him there...

I'm sorry to be harsh, but he's allowing you to be the fall guy. If you don't agree with her, she can blame you for everything. If you do agree with her, you'll be the unhappy one, not your Mil or your DH.
You either assert yourself and tell him to sort his mother out or accept that you're allowing them both to walk all over you.

I agree with Chipped and I don't think this is going to end well.

I sincerely hope I am wrong.

Record the conversation if you can. It can only be in your own best interests.

At first I thought it was a bit crazy but no, your right, I'll record it on my phone. Chippednailvarnish I think I have to give it one shot and see. Don't worry, I hear what you are saying, and I KNOW you are right. I will 100% assert myself today and remain strong. Diddl I fear you are right also... infact you are bang on.. and I will confront the issues head on. If I know I am getting nowhere I will leave, and from that point it will be up to DH to stand up to her.

my heart is beating so fast right now- this woman is a passive aggressive bully.. how DARE she make me feel this way as an adult. Its ridiculous.

"He did also say that he thinks it is important we meet together to try to reconnect without him there..."

why?

To make his life easier?

i got the impression that you never really connected anyway?

If you start to make a bigger fuss than his mum, would he then be appeasing you??

Why I am meeting her is as follows (I am reminding myself here haha)

1. For DH
2. Because since all this kicked off we have never met face to face and I almost feel for my OWN mental health I need to talk it out a bit.
3. Because I feel I have to at least TRY to sort things out or improve things a little.

All are very BAD reasons for meeting her at all. Its not for your benefit for a start.

1. He should be with you, its his mother and his issue. You are being thrown to the wolves here by him as well as she.
2. A reasonable thing to think of but she will play the victim here and disregard everything you say. This all could go pear shaped very quickly.
3. Again reasonable thinking on your part but you are dealing here with someone who is dysfunctional and thus inherently unreasonable. The "normal" rules for dealing with familial relations goes out the window when it comes to such dysfunctional people and you simply cannot use "normal" solutions.

Your a pleaser OP, you want to please everyone, your DH, your MIl, even the people on this thread. Don't be, you're end up the unhappy one.

"I will 100% assert myself today and remain strong"

I hope so but equally you could likely crumble in the face of her narcissistic rage; never underestimate how nasty such people can be when challenged. She could all too easily and quickly go completely off the wall here.

"If I know I am getting nowhere I will leave"

Good, that is one boundary you must keep. You I think will be leaving very quickly and soon after the one sided conversation from her starts. You will need to react quickly to any agitated behaviour from her by leaving.

"and from that point it will be up to DH to stand up to her".
And you know as well as I do that will not happen because of her inbuilt conditioning of him which has made him spineless.

Good luck op.

Having read your post I'd try and re frame the meeting as being about what you want. I totally get why you feel it may help your mental health. It all becomes very over whelming and you feel like you're losing control. Remember however that she has more to lose than you.

She won't have changed since you last saw her. As you're sitting there think about the fact that her own sister and niece have let you know that they understand what she's like. Your husband is being supportive to a certain extent, and you have all of us cheering you on. Good job we don't know which cafe you'll be in, no doubt you'd have a couple of mumsnetters hiding behind furniture ready to leap to your defence.

In your situation I used to sometimes mutter to myself, "7 billion people in the world , you're only one of them"!

What can you expect when you do confront a narcissist? Generally, they will resort to narcissistic rage (explosive or passive-aggressive) or denial. He or she may become enraged, deny everything, call you a liar, twist reality, blame you and then play the victim. You may be the recipient of rage and aggression or the victim of The Silent Treatment. It is also common for him or her to project everything you say about them on to you. For example, if you confront them about infidelity, they will turn it around and claim that you must be the one who cheated for you to even bring it up. If you are strong enough to cope with this treatment, then go ahead and use the strategies below to confront him (or her). If you are hoping for a permanent, positive change in their behavior, more disappointment or pain is likely on the way.

Narcissistic Rage

Why do they go into a “narcissistic rage”? They become enraged because they believe they are perfect and beyond reproach. They cannot accept any sort of disagreement, criticism or accountability for their actions. “Narcissists react with narcissistic rage to narcissistic injury”.

“Narcissistic injury” is any threat (real or imagined, no matter how slight) to the narcissist’s grandiose self-perception as perfect or omnipotent. They perceive every disagreement as criticism and every critical remark as abject humiliation. Narcissists desire perfection so even the slightest challenge to that self-perception is seen as a threat. Thus, the over-reaction. They react defensively and become indignant, aggressive and emotionally detached. They “devalue” the person who criticized, disagreed or dared to confront them about their behavior. By devaluing that person, narcissists minimize the impact of the threat to their self worth. The devalued individual is likely to be subjected to severe and continual emotional harassment, guilt and blame, and to abuse (verbal and physical).

“Narcissistic rage” is a reaction to a perceived (real or imagined) slight, criticism, disagreement or confrontation. Narcissistic rage is a reaction to narcissistic injury. Narcissistic rage can come in one or both types: explosive and passive-aggressive.

1. Explosive – The narcissist erupts like a volcano, attacks everyone around him, causes damage to objects or people, and is highly abusive.

1. Passive-Aggressive – The narcissist sulks, gives The Silent Treatment, and makes plans on how to punish the person. They are malicious and vengeful. They harass, disturb, sabotage and damage the work or possessions of the transgressors.

How to Confront?

According to Sam Vaknin, self-proclaimed narcissist and author of Malignant Self-Love, the simplest way is by abandoning him or by threatening to abandon him/her. The threat to abandon can be vague and doesn’t have to be conditional (“If you do/ don’t do something – I will leave you”). When you confront a narcissist, you must be insistent and shout back. He or she can be controlled by the exact weapons that he uses to overpower others.

Their fear of abandonment overshadows almost everything else in a narcissist’s life. For example, if he gets emotionally close to someone he begins to fear that abandonment is inevitable. That causes him to act cruel and distance himself which often results in the abandonment that he feared. It is the narcissist’s paradox to which also holds the key to confronting and coping with the narcissist. If he engages in narcissistic rage – rage back at him. This inflames the fear of being abandoned and consequently quiets and calms him. He will try to make amends, immediately moving from one end of the emotional spectrum (cold, angry, cynical, and cruel) to the other end of the spectrum (warm, loving, optimistic and kind).

Mirror the narcissist’s actions and repeat his words back to him: If he threatens you – threaten him back. If he leaves the house – you leave the house. If he acts suspicious – you act suspicious. Descend to his level and use criticism, degrading comments and humiliation. Mirror his image back to him and the narcissist will always retreat.

Narcissists can cause negative and harmful effects to us. They are superficial individuals whose self-worth often stems from their behavior toward their partner, family and friends. To successfully and effectively confront a narcissist, your own self-worth must be strong and you need to robustly believe in your right to confront his or her attitude or behavior. Stand up for yourself and confront the narcissist by mirroring his behaviors; by doing this you can regain control and put it back in your court.

Just wondering what 'troubled life' she's had. Maybe it would have been good to explain that in your OP. It might be a reason for her attachment to her son and why she isn't good in social situations.

So she's having this 'love feast' with you then meeting your DP alone afterwards? Hoo-boy!

Absolutely you need to record her and say as little as possible yourself!

OP - I am hoping you get some good results. Thinking of you. Have been in your shoes, its quite terrifiying. You have been given some EXCELLENT advice - I hope it helps. x

How did it go? Did you record her? I hope so and that you can recover this evening while dh is out.

Hi all. So you were all pretty much bang on. It was hideous.

I arrived first so got us both a drink and I sat with DS playing with his toys and trying to feel calm. She arrives all smiles and seemed really nice which I was mildly encouraged by, and then the weirdness began. She didnt look at me once just made a massive fuss of DS, picked him up, played with him etc. She was asking me small talk style questions whilst looking and playing with DS. I just watched this happen and answered briefly and politely and let her carry on. But it carried on for over five minutes, so when it became clear this is how it would continue I started things off by saying that I felt we should probably discuss whats been going on. She half looked at me and said "ok if we have to" which I thought was slightly odd seeing as this was the entire point of the meeting.

Anyway, so then it gets weirder. As soon as I say this, she sits back,and literally starts speaking really calmly and quietly in a monologue. It was like she had rehearsed it a million times. If I tried to interject with anything (she was saying things that simply werent true at some points) she wouldnt raise her voice but just carried on talking over me. It was all how SHE felt, how SHE was going to forgive me (?!), how SHE wasnt going to hold a grudge, how HER feelings had been very hurt. So bizarre, and it is glaringly clear that she has rewritten history.

When I eventually managed to get a word I said "can I please say something? Can I speak?" and then the second I started to say what I wanted to say she held her hands up and kept saying "stop attacking me, youre attacking me!" when I wasnt even raising my voice. She totally played the victim about literally everything and said that she hadnt done anything wrong and would not apologise and that she just wanted to move on. She accused me of ostricising her from the family, and when I said "but you do understand why I thought it was best you didnt stay?" she said "no, I have a right to stay in my son and my grandsons house if I want to" UNBELIEVABLE. She said she didnt think she was wrong snatching DS from me because she knew what was best for him and he is her GS so she has a right to. I also said that she needed to stop calling DH crying and saying he was 'choosing me over her' as it wasnt a case of choosing and this wasnt a competition. Her response: 'Don't tell me how I can and can't communicate with my son.' She told me to have some compassion and that people do much worse things than she does. She talks about HER family and then me- she clearly doesnt see me as anything to do with her and her family.

It had been about twenty minutes of this and I could feel myself getting hot with anger so I said we had to go. She then started saying how much she had cried over this the last six months and something came over me and I just looked her in the eyes and said "Good". I knew I shouldnt have said it as soon as I did and she just really cooly goes" thankyou for that, thats really kind of you"

Then as I was going it was like a switch flipped in her and she started saying things like I could call her any time I wanted and we dont have to be bestfriends but we must get along for the sake of DH. I just had enough by then so I was answering civilly but one word answers whilst I got DS in the buggy. She then offered to walk home with us and I said no thankyou that we would be fine.

It gets weirder. On the way back I thought I would cool off and give DS some fun and take him to the swings. About ten minutes later I get this tect from her 'Can I come to the house? I don't know what else to do. I don't want GS to be upset by us though. I've put my bags in my room and have the hotel key.' I just replied 'No, sorry, its not a good idea'

How she thought after me not wanting her in the house and our meeting going awfully she then thought it was fine to come and sit in my house and have a cup of tea is beyond me. I cannot even understand it.

So that was it. I am so relieved its over and it felt sooo good walking away.

Oh and I didnt record it because DS was playing with my phone and then she walked in so it was too late. But I was thinking, even if I HAD have recorded it what would I have done with it? Play it to DH? No way. I don't want to enter into her stupid me vs her war that she is trying to create.

Yes, and I wonder what story she will spin back to your husband and family...good on you for walking away.

They are out for dinner as we speak. Couldnt wait for him to get out of the door so I could tell you all what happened!! I don't know why but I almost feel a bit detached from it now and weirdly calm like I actually don't care?! I was thinking id be going out of my mind wondering what she was saying, but I'm not.. odd.

What has happened in her life that was troubled OP?

DH is out for dinner with her without you there.