MIL problems..

[Happymum1985]

Thought id post here as really feel at a loss about what to do.. Sorry for the essay, its been going round and round in my head.

My DH is an only child and has always had a close relationship with his mum. She has had a troubled life and because of this, has quite a few issues. Up until DS was born last year, I found her hard work and quite demanding, but we managed to get along fine and I always made effort to see her and have contact with her because having a relationship with her was important to me.

Looking back there were signs she possibly didnt like me, because her reaction when DH told her about our engagement and pregnancy were very odd (she said she was busy and would call back later and hung up the phone). There was the odd thing like her wanting to go on holiday (on her own) with DH for two weeks (two years in a row) and expecting him to go down and stay with her a week before DS was born to 'dig holes in her garden' ?! But again, I tried to be tolerant of all this. She is on her own and doesnt have friends so I understood she was lonely.

Once DS had been born it started to go downhill fast. She came to stay with us the day I got out of hospital even though I had specifically said no visitors. When I got back and she showed up, I didnt have the energy/ didnt want to cause a scene so bit my tongue. She then proceeded to stay for 4 nights and didnt lift a finger to help, wanted to hold DS all the time when I was still in the stage when I felt like I wanted to bond with him and hold him all the time. There was a time il never forget when my DH had popped out and she said she was hungry and me- the mug- was trying to bend down to get plates etc and prepare lunch for her 5 days after a c-section whilst she held DS. Every time she came to stay subsequently she was the same- expecting hotel service and not understanding things had changed.

The last time I saw her was 4 months ago when she came to stay and everything exploded. In a nutshell, she had worked herself up into a rage- we didnt realise- because she wanted time alone with my DH and apparently she had told me this in the morning and we had agreed she could have this time alone with him (i do also find this slightly rude!) -I had totally forgot about this so rather than saying anything she had got really angry. Anyway, i was cooking and passed DS to DH. As I did so, she snatched DS out of my arms and stormed past me saying DS needed to sleep and DH was exhausted. I was fuming, DS started crying and DH sat there like a shell shock victim not knowing what to do. I stormed up after her and retrieved DS (I dont know what came over me but i was shaking in rage). She then stayed upstairs for about half an hour and DH took her out for a walk. On this walk she slagged me off and basically told him she wouldnt be coming to stay again as she found me stressful to be around, that I was a bad mother, a nasty person etc and tried to stir problems between my DH and I by saying I didnt seem to want to spend time with him..

Since she left we have had zero contact. My DH told her that she owed me an apology. She refused to apologise which infuriated me more, and made no contact. It is my DS birthday in a couple of weeks and she said she wanted to come up to see him on his birthday. We have told her we are having a family day but that she can visit around the time of his birthday. She then asked if she could stay at our house (she has no shame!!). My DH said he would speak to me.

When he got back to her and said no, and pointed out to her that she had previously said she couldnt bear to stay with us and would stay in a hotel for her next visit, she announced that she had already booked her train ticket. She then said she didnt have enough money to stay in hotel (rubbish) and said she would meet me for a coffee before staying at our house to 'sort things out' My DH pointed out that she was being a little naive by thinking all could be forgotten after a quick coffee...she also upset my DH by saying its hurting her that he is 'choosing me over her'. He told me last night that it feels unnatural to tell his mum she cant stay.

Am I being unreasonable? Am I doing the right thing? I have stuck to my guns and said she is welcome to come and see DS around his birthday and that I will meet up with her to talk but that she is not welcome to stay. I don't trust her and feel like she is someone that enjoys drama and creating problems and her demands on my DH's time are not conducive to a normal functional relationship. I don't hate anyone, but I think I might hate her.. I just have so much anger and resentment there that I don't know if I can get rid of... I know things cant go on like this but I cant bear her and dont know how to move forward...

Or does that not matter?

I agree with Pictish and I think you're going to have to be the bigger person for the sake of your DH. Believe me I understand how these things escalate I had a few big blow ups with my ex MIL as well, on one memorable occasion my ds fell over and hurt himself and MIL snatched him up and refused to give him to me to comfort even though he was reaching for me it was all part of a big pattern of resentment. We got over it and became friends (of sorts). She loves her son and is struggling with the massive changes in family dynamics combined with not sounding particularly emotionally intelligent. I think you need to give her a break.

You have no obligation to give your baby to someone you don't trust and who is unpleasant.

Even if it's your husband's mother OP - because who gives a shit how he feels about it all? It's your baby.

Ffs. This place!

Ofc it's her husband's baby too. But I think that he is in a very difficult position though thankfully he's taken the OP's side.

But it's NOT the grandmother's baby. It's the mother's and the mother instinct should be respected and rarely gone against. This grandmother's taken the baby out of the mother's unwilling arms in the past. It'll take a lot to get past that. I'm firmly on the mother's side that if she doesn't trust her - don't give her the baby.

Righto then.

just to clarify, I have no issue with her holding DS when we meet up, or her spending time alone with DH, I am just reluctant to have DS stay alone with her as she has some pretty 'out there' parenting ideas. She wants tomeet with me alone pre tospending time with DS to sort things. I think this has stemmed more from her wanting to stay in our house and wanting to see more of DS and DH than any ounce of wanting to repair her relationship with me, but the olive branch is there of sorts so I will take it. What im struggling with is knowing what to say to her when we meet to sort it out. Im still really angry and bit worried some of this will show.. im desperate to try and illustrate where the boundaries are without being mean/ confrontational...

would it help to write out how you feel? I don't think it will matter if she sees a little anger, it might even help, but only in a controlled way and if it's overwhelming then things will go pearshaped, which would be a pity.

Also maybe it might help to write out what boundaries you would like to see her observe. Before you meet read them over again. Practise saying them over and over. Take 5 deep breathes if you feel yourself likely to say something you regret.

I don't think you should let her stay until you are ready for that. If you manage to talk it out and you feel ok with it, then great. If you still don't feel comfy, then don't. She sounds rather temperamental; it could go either way, that she might be conciliatory or it might spiral out of control. Hopefully the first.

You have it down Meerka! Thankyou- sound advice and I will follow it.

Is this meet-up going to involve your DH, OP? I'm not sure I'd want to meet up with someone like your MIL on my own. She's been rude to you before, & it sounds like she is the sort of person who escalates issues very quickly. I'd want DH to be there, both as support & as a witness to anything that may be said.

the whole thing is such an embarrassing cliche I'm aware...I wish I wasnt part of it...

do you think i should have DH there too? Shes asked to speak to me alone thats all..

I would be wary of meeting her alone, it's very easy for her to twist what had been said or say you've done something you haven't if there is no one there to back you up (mines a bully BIL-within two minutes of my dp leaving the room he had invented me saying and doing something that potentially had my dp believed him really caused a lot of trouble). I think you and your dp should sit down together with her.

I think it's best to be honest with her. Calmly (and with confidence) tell her how you feel.
I think this can be saved you see? You and mil allowed resentment to build up between you and spill over into a row. Your mil is jealous of you, it's clear, and perhaps lacks your intelligence too...but there are ways of dealing with that other than pulling the shutters down on her. For your husband's sake, one of you has to be the bigger person.

Keeping this in actual real life perspective and not applying mumsnet drama, you have had one almighty row. It's not fucked yet.

Well said Fudgy.

I'm one of the drips who are saying in the long run, it's kinder to you and miles nicer to your unfortunate DH to put up with the old trout as much as you can.

I know it's difficult, and annoying, but you can say no to her wilder hysterics and still be nice. Work on doing that. Meet her together and try and make the peace. Just remember you can stop her madder ideas on parenting, and you don't have to see her that often. She's not a soulmate, she's your MIL.

Good luck.

Agree that the meeting should be with all three of you, so no one may be mistaken and nothing can be misconstrued.

I disagree with pictish, I don't think these things just 'crop up' in families. Certainly no one in my family has ever behaved this way. Who sits back whilst their daughter in law 5 days post c section makes their meals and treats the house like a hotel/ expects to spend 2 weeks a year alone with their son ? It's bizarre and really, really selfish. I just couldn't have a relationship withsomeone like that. Couldn't let them stay in my house. For the sake of my sanity! And for the sake of my son (and as he gets older he will pick up on the way your mother in law behaves.) Obviously with her being your mil you have to have some kind of relationship but accept that unfortunately you'll never be close, I doubt she'll change especiallyfif your husband indulges her every whim (which I think he's a bit guilty of, not blaming him, can you imagine what his childhood was like?).

To be honest I think I would meet for coffee but make it clear to her and your dh that no matter what happens during the meeting you're not going to change your mind regarding her staying at the house. That that's not going to happen in rhe forseeable future. But that you would like to clear the air with her. You never know, having a more distant relationship might mean you get along okay - polite, civil but not too over friendly ie having her stay at the house. Is she close enough that you could all pop to her house once a month for the day/afternoon? And leave when she gets too much?

You are all being so helpful. Pictish and Corygal the optimistic side of me wants to believe that it can be salvaged. I just want to make sure from now on that it is on our terms rather than hers. She's been manipulative and selfish, but lets face it she hasnt killed anyone. I guess to an extent its down to me to harness my own anger about all this and do everything in my power to be the bigger person in this- easier said than done.

I do feel that DH is rushing me a bit wanting it all to be normal so she can come and stay again and wants that to happen asap, but as you said ialreadytoldyou I know that Im nowhere NEAR being able to tolerate her in my house any time soon. Particularly as she treats our house like a hotel. (Yes, she had a list of requests as to what she expects to be in the cupboards before she arrives no joke!!) It just worrys me the way that even this is turning into yet another scenario when she bulldozes her way through a situation to get her own way. If I was her, the last thing I would feel comfortable doing would be to beg to stay in someones house??!! Her emotional intelligence is so non existent that I almost wonder if theres something slightly wrong there...

Ialreadytoldyou fortunately my mum lives near her, so even though its not close enough for a day trip, we could always see her for a day and then stay at my mums. I just know her, and worry that she will constantly push for more..

Before all this happened me and DH did decide on a one night stay rule for her, but he didnt back it up when she asked if she could stay for longer to make it worth her while... and I don't feel in a position to say no because my own family DO often come and stay for a couple of nights at a time.

One night is fine, two is generous

If you'd have met her, one night is LONG!

I would be tempted to record the conversation on my phone when you meet her for coffee.

Happymum1985,

I would be extremely wary of meeting MIL in any case and particularly without your DH being there as well. Certainly never meet her on your own. I am not at all surprised this woman has no friends either; they really do not. This subsequent meeting is one you really do need to prepare yourself for because it could all go pear shaped very quickly. MIL could storm off, shout you down, refuse to listen to your reasoned argument and or threaten to cut her son off or out of her will; these are all control methods.

One plus here is that your DH is on your side. He has to also take the lead here and not be spineless or mired in inertia because that simply hurts his own family unit. His primary loyalty should be to his own family unit now.

I do not think this can be salvaged mainly because I feel your MIL wants her own way all the time; this whole dynamic is about power and control and this woman wants absolute. She has regarded her son as her carer and still continues to do so. It is NOT your fault this woman is the way she is, they did not make her that way (her own family of origin did that lot of damage).

You do not mention FIL at all, is he around?.

I don't think you are unreasonable either. She reminds me of how my MiL used to be, basically she see your DH as her baby and she as his mother has greater standing than you in his life. This is exhibited by the fact she accused him of choosing you over her - anyone normal would realise that it's not you or her, you both have a place in his life that are very different. You are his partner and along with your DS, you are the new family unit. She has a role in that but she is not the focus. He is a grown man, his choice for a partner, baby etc, nothing to do with her. I suspect it's not YOU she doesn't like - you could be anyone and she wouldn't like it as you are taking him away from her.
By booking the train etc, she is forcing your hand and making sure she has the control. Either you say yes and she's won as you don't have the apology and therefore will be walked all over by her (she'll view that as him choosing her) OR you say no and you'll forever be the bitch from hell. You can't win.
Your DH sounds lovely as he is standing up for you (mine did too!) but I feel for him. I would suggest that you all meet for coffee /dinner, but explain to him (and her) that you feel it totally unreasonable to be insulted and disregarded in your own home. Would they stand for that?

If she thought anything for him, she would make an effort to resolve this. It's not all up to you, all you can do is agree to meet half way, but she needs to do her bit.

I am guessing Pictish has never met a full on toxic narcissist.

Being optimistic, your MIL may be a normal person where boundaries have been lost along the way and expressing your feelings, like you would in a normal family, will right things.

Being pessimistic, and unfortunately I suspect realistic, your MIL is unable to see things from another's point of view. She is the lead character in her own movie, your DH is an extension of herself and the rest of you are just bit players designed to go along with what she wants. She will not respond to normal reasoning as she doesn't understand it and frankly is amazed that you have feelings of your own.

There are a lot of warning signs that your MIL is not a normal but intense person but falling into the toxic category. In which case being reasonable is a waste of your time. Toxic Inlaws and Toxic Parents are must reads for both of you.

I would not meet her alone under any circumstances as your conversation will be twisted to suit her own needs. I'd suggest she can meet you and DH for coffee max on this first visit, as you are all so stressed about last time and want to build bridges slowly. If she doesn't like it, she can go away and think some more.