MIL problems..

[Happymum1985]

Thought id post here as really feel at a loss about what to do.. Sorry for the essay, its been going round and round in my head.

My DH is an only child and has always had a close relationship with his mum. She has had a troubled life and because of this, has quite a few issues. Up until DS was born last year, I found her hard work and quite demanding, but we managed to get along fine and I always made effort to see her and have contact with her because having a relationship with her was important to me.

Looking back there were signs she possibly didnt like me, because her reaction when DH told her about our engagement and pregnancy were very odd (she said she was busy and would call back later and hung up the phone). There was the odd thing like her wanting to go on holiday (on her own) with DH for two weeks (two years in a row) and expecting him to go down and stay with her a week before DS was born to 'dig holes in her garden' ?! But again, I tried to be tolerant of all this. She is on her own and doesnt have friends so I understood she was lonely.

Once DS had been born it started to go downhill fast. She came to stay with us the day I got out of hospital even though I had specifically said no visitors. When I got back and she showed up, I didnt have the energy/ didnt want to cause a scene so bit my tongue. She then proceeded to stay for 4 nights and didnt lift a finger to help, wanted to hold DS all the time when I was still in the stage when I felt like I wanted to bond with him and hold him all the time. There was a time il never forget when my DH had popped out and she said she was hungry and me- the mug- was trying to bend down to get plates etc and prepare lunch for her 5 days after a c-section whilst she held DS. Every time she came to stay subsequently she was the same- expecting hotel service and not understanding things had changed.

The last time I saw her was 4 months ago when she came to stay and everything exploded. In a nutshell, she had worked herself up into a rage- we didnt realise- because she wanted time alone with my DH and apparently she had told me this in the morning and we had agreed she could have this time alone with him (i do also find this slightly rude!) -I had totally forgot about this so rather than saying anything she had got really angry. Anyway, i was cooking and passed DS to DH. As I did so, she snatched DS out of my arms and stormed past me saying DS needed to sleep and DH was exhausted. I was fuming, DS started crying and DH sat there like a shell shock victim not knowing what to do. I stormed up after her and retrieved DS (I dont know what came over me but i was shaking in rage). She then stayed upstairs for about half an hour and DH took her out for a walk. On this walk she slagged me off and basically told him she wouldnt be coming to stay again as she found me stressful to be around, that I was a bad mother, a nasty person etc and tried to stir problems between my DH and I by saying I didnt seem to want to spend time with him..

Since she left we have had zero contact. My DH told her that she owed me an apology. She refused to apologise which infuriated me more, and made no contact. It is my DS birthday in a couple of weeks and she said she wanted to come up to see him on his birthday. We have told her we are having a family day but that she can visit around the time of his birthday. She then asked if she could stay at our house (she has no shame!!). My DH said he would speak to me.

When he got back to her and said no, and pointed out to her that she had previously said she couldnt bear to stay with us and would stay in a hotel for her next visit, she announced that she had already booked her train ticket. She then said she didnt have enough money to stay in hotel (rubbish) and said she would meet me for a coffee before staying at our house to 'sort things out' My DH pointed out that she was being a little naive by thinking all could be forgotten after a quick coffee...she also upset my DH by saying its hurting her that he is 'choosing me over her'. He told me last night that it feels unnatural to tell his mum she cant stay.

Am I being unreasonable? Am I doing the right thing? I have stuck to my guns and said she is welcome to come and see DS around his birthday and that I will meet up with her to talk but that she is not welcome to stay. I don't trust her and feel like she is someone that enjoys drama and creating problems and her demands on my DH's time are not conducive to a normal functional relationship. I don't hate anyone, but I think I might hate her.. I just have so much anger and resentment there that I don't know if I can get rid of... I know things cant go on like this but I cant bear her and dont know how to move forward...

"doubting our compatibility" his words are they echo's of the MIL?

At the moment he is cracking because he knows the truth is coming out about how emotional dysfunctional he really is . He already knows that he's damaged but it's easier to pretend and move on and bury it all deep down . He doesn't know what to to do now because you won't go along with the pretence of it all. All his wounds from his childhood are spilling out now and he can't handle them , doesn't know how to either , you see these things are easier buried deep down. He's exposing all these wounds to you .

The plan to be nice to eachother for a month is wishing it will all go away . That's what this time is about . In his head it'll be forgotten about .

I was brought up in a emotional abusive home . My mother a narc and my father an alcoholic . I remember for a long time most of my life I'd say really I used to pretend everything was fine . I never ever said I was sad unhappy angry I wasn't allowed . I'd also be laughed at so that told me my feelings were invalid so therefore I grew up never telling anyone incase they laughed at me . It was like if I did people would see the real me and laugh.I was ashamed of my family life . It wasn't normal .this is a massive deal of him he doesn't want to confront his mother he's afraid very afraid . He has to face all them demons if he does .its very very hard .

Tulip - you could be my OH. His father was a severe alcoholic, mother a narc (she is now also an alcoholic) - which has created a passive aggressive character for my OH. Everyone sees him as gentle and laid back, But inside he is in turmoil but cant even feel it, It has put our marriage on the rocks. We get on so well as friends/lovers etc...but bring any level of real life into it and he just disappears mentally and physically - cant cope, cant communicate, cant confront etc total denial everything is fine. V exhausting to try to raise 4 kids with that. Trying to get him to work on this but he thinks there is no issue or it is too painful to address?

If you treat her like a matriarch she will act like one . Offering to be separated from your child so she can have time with him is a subservient position and one you should avoid at all costs. You shouldn't have to do something your unhappy with because your relationship seems fragile at the moment. It stinks of manipulation.

As you become better informed you will persistently come across phrases like through the looking glass , down the rabbit hole , the matrix , the wizard of oz , flying monkeys ect. This is because what is presented to you is not real. It doesn't exist. Just as it is in the wizard of oz , there is no wizard behind the curtain and there is no powerful mil either. She's duped your husband into thinking she's all powerfull and you've quite naturally followed his lead.

The only power she has is what you give her. What would really happen if you told your mil to shove her manipulations up her arse ? What if you yelled it in her face ? Not much would happen , but you would experience fear.

What would really happen if you told your husband that actually his mother is a weird freak and unless he knocks it off he will be eating beans in a bedsit seeing your child once a week? What would a divorce look like for the two of you ? Your husband is NOT going to be separated permanently from his child over two days at Christmas.. He has learned from his mother that the best way to get what he wants is to induce fear.

Of course you don't want a divorce , he knows this and will utilize fear strategies if they are successful. A good way to deal with these fear inducing strategies is to turn the tables. We tend to assume that people are afraid of the same things that we are. I suspect that it's your husband who has more to lose in a divorce and that it's him that's afraid of divorce. Right or not , I would have played the game. I would have agreed with him about the compatibility issue. I would have insinuated that my family have asked if everything is ok because they've noticed things aren't right. If he pushed it I might have even said that I love him but I'm not IN love with him. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

The purpose of the compatibility nonsense was two things. One to induce fear and the other to get reassurance which he would have done if you were suitably stunned or upset. The way to deal with fear is to face it. If a potential split frightens you , really look at that until your no longer afraid. What's the worse that will happen ? You'll get rid of your mil and find some horny men to date. Bummer. Fake it.

Same goes for the fear that she might tell people your being awkward about contact. So what ? Tell who ? She's bonkers anyway. These people are not your jury and if they're daft enough to believe mil it's a good thing they identify themselves early on so you can avoid them. You might have to look at what is behind the fear of what others think.

Superb post from Tulip

Why would OP's husband see his child once a week, in the event of a divorce? He would be entitled to much more than that, and if he chose to take the child to stay with his mother, then who would stop him?

It was said up-thread that your OH has put the MIL first, above you, on all occasions - however another way of looking at it is that he has put HIMSELF first - he does not want hassle with his M - he knows how she will erupt - and has spent his life tap-dancing around her to keep the peace and prevent conflict - he has a horror of confrontation ---so he sent YOU into battle directly ALONE at the cafe - so that you would resolve it...and he could just rock up later to a civilized dinner.

What actually happened is a disaster for him, all her previous NARC rage episodes come flooding back - he knows she will never apologise or back down - he just needs/expects you to flap around her to dampen the flames and stroke her ego until calm is restored like he has always done.

He knows you are right and she is wrong - but he is more traumatised by her narc rages - that he requires you to roll over, take the bullet and comply.

Personally, I wonder if the OP's DH knows what normal is and how to challenge his mother.

I don't think suddenly expecting him to have judgement and know how to challenge what his whole life has been up until now is very realistic. I think he'll need help and be led to reach his own conclusions and act. He's already had flashes of realisation so the ball is rolling in the right direction but confronting his whole life will be no mean feat, and then he needs to find out for himself how to act in the face of this realisation.

I feel for the bloke for those reasons

How are you OP? You haven't posted in a while?

Hope you are ok, op

Hi all, thanks for all your messages. I won't lie ive not been in a great place. DH is beginning to baffle me- never felt like this before with him but its almost like im seeing new sides to him. This isnt even just about MIL anymore. Shes a massive contributing factor but maybe its just exposed issues we already had.

Yesterday he came home with 4 new expensive wine glasses.. I told him not to feel bad about it and it doesnt matter. To be honest, that to me is nothing. My own father had a hot temper as a younger man, and I've been around the odd smashed plate/ kicked door/ slipper chucked on a neighbours garage roof (don't ask!!!!) A bit of temper to me doesnt scare me, and doesnt mean anything malicious. What worries me is DH's weird way of then pretending everything is fine and making small talk.

Last night he called me a bitch (because I was a bit short with him as was trying to concentrate on some paper work and he kept asking me questions) but then half an hour later came up to check on DS and came into my room and called me darling. WTF. I came out and said that I felt scared and sad because I could see our relationship going in such a bad direction. He said he didnt think it was that bad and walked straight out, went downstairs and watched TV. Hes knows Im unhappy but just walks away.

This morning he was really nice and normal and said to me that we could have a nice evening just hanging out together tonight. I know we need it, but in reality I want to get away, to go somewhere for a few days, to get some space from him. I feel sadness and anger and hurt and all these things just building up like a tidal wave in me.

One of the posters- sorry I can't remember who- wrote about the way her ex DH wanted to live a charade and arguments broke out when she stopped living the fantasy world for a while. He wants to bury his head from reality.

I spoke to my mum briefly this morning- its a long story but in a nutshell I am borrowing money from her for a big car bill- but even my mum who never says a bad word about anyone, said to me that DH seemed to still be a bit childlike in some ways and not quite facing up to his new role as an adult/ parent (he pays for the lionshare of everything and I only work part time). She said she finds it suprising that he is allowing me to borrow money from her when it is a 'family bill' that of course on my salary I havent got the money to pay. My voice actually cracked a bit and I got tears in my eyes. I hardly ever cry. She asked if I was ok and said she would call tonight. I really dont want her to worry about me. But part of me felt like she wasnt that surprised that I was crying.

Also can I just say a post about MIL speaking in a little girl voice and being almost flirty around DH -YES YES YES she does this. This happens and I find it SO weird!!!

Keep posting OP and I would also tell your mother what is going on, as you need emotional support from your friends and/or family. You are not unreasonable, nor a bitch and you are worth so much more.

I wanted to say that my DH does on occasion take our daughter to see my MIL without me; however, this is to give me a break for a few hours....not so my MIL can play 'mummy' and 'pretend' that my DH is her partner! Both you and your son should be the most important in your husbands eyes, not secondary to his and her wants and needs.

You have said ^^ what you need to do at this point in time: to get away for a few days, to get some space from him. I think this is really sensible, can you arrange to go today?

I agree with your mum. Why borrow for a household bill? There's no way that'd hapoen in our house unless the household funds were on their knees AND both of us had no money.

As far as ignoring previous incidents, my DH also does this. It's his way of dealing with things, it's in another compartment he shuts the door on. Its because he doesn't like conflict and just wants to move on. It's also because he doesn't want to remember if he's hurt me so tries to pretend it hasn't happened.

We're now 20 years in and it's been long enough that he knows this makes things worse! He's improved and I've learnt appreciate that this in him is his coping strategy so can understand and respect that a little more too and we meet somewhere in the middle. Key thing there though is that we know that whatever each of us does that inadvertently hurts the other, we know it's not intentional and can afford to give the benefit of the doubt. If we were not sure if each then that wouldn't happen.

I know we need it, but in reality I want to get away, to go somewhere for a few days, to get some space from him. I feel sadness and anger and hurt and all these things just building up like a tidal wave in me.

you do need a break. If you don't, all this will come flooding out.

I feel sorry for your husband but he's really not behaving like a man, but a child who wants everything to be nice. It isn't, but not tackling this problem is storing up bigger problems in the long run. And hell on you.

I can't remember the answer to this question (if it's been asked) but is joint counselling a possibility? A neutral 3rd party? Does he get on and respect your mum? Is there anyone who could actually sit him down and talk to him?

Alternatively, can you write him a long letter and go away for a few days and say you'll be back when he is ready to discuss and actually deal with it and not brush it under the carpet - because there so much shit there already that it just can't hide any more?

Hi Op

You have my sympathies and I must comment on how well you are doing.

I've been following your thread for a while and I just felt like I needed to post here for you. I hope this is helpful.

Your MIL needs to SERIOUSLY STEP RIGHT BACK OFF and I mean really step back. Your dh can go see her over Xmas but really, you ALL need the space from MIL and reassess your boundaries. MIL needs to EARN your respect and if and when you are feeling up to seeing her again (with your dc) then that's when you should. If it was me, I would not put myself through the stress of seeing her over Xmas. She's not going to die, nor you , nor the rest, so she'll be fine not seeing you over xmas I'm sure. It would be HEARTLESS and CRUEL for hubby to expect you to play out some shite happy fake 1950s family over xmas.

As for your hubby, once your MIL is out of the picture somewhat, I think only then you can work on your relationship. Too much chit chat has gone on and not enough action I think, or the right action. Talk everyday and do something with each other that's engaging and re-discover yourselves. Your dh has to realise, one day, MIL isn't going to be walking on this earth and it'll be just the two of you (and dc) and then what? Either you both fix your issues and address them or it's seperate ways and nobody wants that.

There are no quick fixes in relationships but I know one thing, your MIL is adding you UNNECESSARY stress. Keep up the backbone and don't back down. If you lose it - your whole family falls apart.

Good luck OP.

I know it is hard - but I would try to look at your DH with pity as he is the adult child victim of your MIL - and then gently encourage, encourage, encourage - him, indirectly/directly to address his past and emotional dysfunction.

Forget MIL - cut her out of your life. He will get there eventually when he is able to see her for what she really is...but now she is the misunderstood hero woman who had a shit life and overcame adversity to raise him alone...

Your (legitimate) anger with him & MIL -- will send him down a defensive rabbit hole - you will chase him away.

You can best do this by being informed and well read on narcs/alcoholics and the impact this has on their children and how this plays out in adult life. You dont need to reinvent the whell - this is all classic stuff - but that knowledge will give you so much insight and power to see what is happening and not be thrown into an emotional shitstorm ach time he/she does or says anything.

Be open with your Mother - you need a sensecheck from this craziness.

Agree, definitely talk over with RL friends/family who can give you a reality check. They know your circumstances better than any mumsnetter.

Do not get drawn into being emotionally manipulated and don't get caught up with MIL. As soon as you start feeling that 'rise' in temper/stress in yourself, that's alarm bells to you to step back from the situation or tell them to step back or leave even. Don't put yourself in the epi-center of any bullshit from MIL. All SHE and you need to be is courteous and respectful, anything less than that is unacceptable and if you both can't agree on what that means, then you both need to re-engage a relationship on ''acquaintance-level''...i.e., 'I've just met you and don't know you but I'm going to be really really nice to give you the benefit of the doubt and I hope you are going to be nice back kind of' level.

I'm talking from experience from dealing with my own inlaws and we are now back at 'acquaintance' level. We see each other at very limited times of the year (and only via mutual agreement) because we all agree a start/end time and date of the family visit in advance. No suprised. The visits are short and sweet and extremely polite. And it keeps my dh happy. And I'm happy. It's marvellous.

Sounds like your husband needs a lesson or two in what being respectful means as you've been too long a mat being walked over!!

You have a car bill you need to borrow money from your mother to pay, but your DH is subsidising his mother's hotel bills? Does he know you have this billto pay and no money to do so?

This is beginning to sound more like a problem between the two of you than simply a problem with his relationship with his mother (not that those are simple).

Hi Happy, glad to see your update. Just a quick comment about the fact that this situation seems to have exposed other existing issues between you.

This happened in our case. I think this was for two reasons.

The first is that this issue is so bottom line; trust, support, loyalty etc. Once you're having to address these things you quite quickly allow yourself to identify other, maybe slightly less fundamental, issues. I think it's because we tend not to want to address them, but now it's all up for grabs, so anything can be put out there.

Secondly, I think when you're the kind of person who has the personality to make the best of things/think the best of people etc, you are more likely to minimise other potential issues. If you're generally easy going, a bit of a facilitator, then these are put on the back burner.

I have actually found this to be one of the positive points to come out of my situation. I am now far more assertive, and much more confident in outlining my views and wishes as soon as I need to.

Like pps, I think some time away would do you good. It won't resolve anything but you will have time to think without the stress of being around dh. He just wants to put the telly on, feet up, glass of wine, chat with you, all sorted. That might work for 10 minutes but one of you would end up snapping as there's so much bubbling underneath.

I don't know the answer, but the previous threads on here have provided some very powerful knowledge. I hope it has given you some ideas for a way forward.

Hi op. Definately agree with you and others about going away for a few days. It wont solve the problem but it will give you some much needed time to get some respite from the stress and maybe some clarity on the situation. Definately have a good chat with your mum, if my daughter was ever in your situation I would want to know and do anything I could to help, I am sure your mum would be a real saviour for you at the moment.
As for your husband calling you a bitch that is so fucking mean and disrespectful - and on top of the glass smashing etc he is turning into a real bastard in front of your eyes. I do hope you manage to look after yourself and dc, you do not deserve any of this shit.

I would not put up with being called names , I would nip this in the bud. It's perfectly possible to communicate how you feel without calling names. I understand that you don't see a thrown glass as a big deal , you mention your father's temper , but this isn't acceptable and must be frightening for your dc, not to mention dangerous. It sounds like the issues with mil have destabilized things a bit. Therefore be careful what behaviour you condone from him as these things can very quickly become the

I'm the poster who's husband wanted to live in a charade. There's nothing worse it's soul destroying. The silent message is pretend everything is ok or else. It can creep in without you even noticing. After days of tension you can be desperate just to get things back to normal. Also if attempts to discuss things end up in blazing rows it can be easier just to keep your mouth shut.I ended up seriously depressed.

It sounds like again your husband is trying to manipulate you into playing pretend with the bitch / darling comments in the space of half an hour. Personally I wouldn't be spending a cosy evening with someone who treated me like that. His going downstairs to watch telly after you've said how sad you are is particularly hurtful.

I think with a lot of these men with a mother like this , the Apple doesn't fall far from the tree. They are often emotionally stunted and are only capable of surface relationships. They lack any communication skills and can't resolve conflict. I eventually realized , after yet another tantrum from my ex h that despite looking like a grown up and having a job he was actually a seven year old in a man's body.