MIL problems..

[Happymum1985]

Thought id post here as really feel at a loss about what to do.. Sorry for the essay, its been going round and round in my head.

My DH is an only child and has always had a close relationship with his mum. She has had a troubled life and because of this, has quite a few issues. Up until DS was born last year, I found her hard work and quite demanding, but we managed to get along fine and I always made effort to see her and have contact with her because having a relationship with her was important to me.

Looking back there were signs she possibly didnt like me, because her reaction when DH told her about our engagement and pregnancy were very odd (she said she was busy and would call back later and hung up the phone). There was the odd thing like her wanting to go on holiday (on her own) with DH for two weeks (two years in a row) and expecting him to go down and stay with her a week before DS was born to 'dig holes in her garden' ?! But again, I tried to be tolerant of all this. She is on her own and doesnt have friends so I understood she was lonely.

Once DS had been born it started to go downhill fast. She came to stay with us the day I got out of hospital even though I had specifically said no visitors. When I got back and she showed up, I didnt have the energy/ didnt want to cause a scene so bit my tongue. She then proceeded to stay for 4 nights and didnt lift a finger to help, wanted to hold DS all the time when I was still in the stage when I felt like I wanted to bond with him and hold him all the time. There was a time il never forget when my DH had popped out and she said she was hungry and me- the mug- was trying to bend down to get plates etc and prepare lunch for her 5 days after a c-section whilst she held DS. Every time she came to stay subsequently she was the same- expecting hotel service and not understanding things had changed.

The last time I saw her was 4 months ago when she came to stay and everything exploded. In a nutshell, she had worked herself up into a rage- we didnt realise- because she wanted time alone with my DH and apparently she had told me this in the morning and we had agreed she could have this time alone with him (i do also find this slightly rude!) -I had totally forgot about this so rather than saying anything she had got really angry. Anyway, i was cooking and passed DS to DH. As I did so, she snatched DS out of my arms and stormed past me saying DS needed to sleep and DH was exhausted. I was fuming, DS started crying and DH sat there like a shell shock victim not knowing what to do. I stormed up after her and retrieved DS (I dont know what came over me but i was shaking in rage). She then stayed upstairs for about half an hour and DH took her out for a walk. On this walk she slagged me off and basically told him she wouldnt be coming to stay again as she found me stressful to be around, that I was a bad mother, a nasty person etc and tried to stir problems between my DH and I by saying I didnt seem to want to spend time with him..

Since she left we have had zero contact. My DH told her that she owed me an apology. She refused to apologise which infuriated me more, and made no contact. It is my DS birthday in a couple of weeks and she said she wanted to come up to see him on his birthday. We have told her we are having a family day but that she can visit around the time of his birthday. She then asked if she could stay at our house (she has no shame!!). My DH said he would speak to me.

When he got back to her and said no, and pointed out to her that she had previously said she couldnt bear to stay with us and would stay in a hotel for her next visit, she announced that she had already booked her train ticket. She then said she didnt have enough money to stay in hotel (rubbish) and said she would meet me for a coffee before staying at our house to 'sort things out' My DH pointed out that she was being a little naive by thinking all could be forgotten after a quick coffee...she also upset my DH by saying its hurting her that he is 'choosing me over her'. He told me last night that it feels unnatural to tell his mum she cant stay.

Am I being unreasonable? Am I doing the right thing? I have stuck to my guns and said she is welcome to come and see DS around his birthday and that I will meet up with her to talk but that she is not welcome to stay. I don't trust her and feel like she is someone that enjoys drama and creating problems and her demands on my DH's time are not conducive to a normal functional relationship. I don't hate anyone, but I think I might hate her.. I just have so much anger and resentment there that I don't know if I can get rid of... I know things cant go on like this but I cant bear her and dont know how to move forward...

It is pretty telling if she has no friends.

I think more than anything you're going to have to be very sure to stand your ground and not push.

Can you make bets with yoruself/husband about what she'll push on next, in a sort of jokey way to defuse the frustration a bit?

er, not be pushed* sorry.

Sounds like you'll have to practise saying "no" to her in a firm and pleasant way, and stand firm in any following flouncing. Hopefully she'll come to respect that or at least realise that you mean what you say.

This is precisely it mamababa, she does love DH but in her own very selfish way. She loves him in an alarmingly possessive way, and if she truly wanted the best for him she wouldnt be trying to cause problems in his relationship or cause dramas in his life. She especially wouldnt make ridiculous comments about who is choosing who. Attilla, youre so right, the dynamic is very odd. She puts on a baby voice around him and likes him to 'look after her'. I was wary to meet her alone because I know how manipulative she is. I never have any idea what she will do because she is unpredictable, but I wouldnt put it past her to sit there crying and trying to make me feel guilty for the fact her and DH havent been getting along brilliantly. Even though this situation is her doing, she will never see it that way. There is no FIL, he left when DH was a baby. There have been a few men over the years but none have stuck around. I wish she would meet someone to be honest and then she might stop trying to me married to my DH.

Kundry... you have got it in one im afraid...

...and then she might stop trying to me married to my DH.

Yikes.

More than ever, you need to put up very firm boundaries and you need your DH to have your back the whole way!

Meerka this has been my instinct from day 1. Sometimes I find myself doubting myself as DH is quite soft, and weakens a bit and trys to make light of it all. But I think if I am to protect my relationship from constant friction from her, I have to make some clear rules that even she cant find a way round. Now you can all suggest to me what boundaries I need to put in place... ???!!! Thankyou.. who needs therapy!!

You need to treat her as you would a toddler. If she throws a tantrum, she loses her privileges (no calls, no visits, no grandchild) until she apologises (if she does).

If your husband softens, you may have to allow contact again. But you have got to react EVERY SINGLE TIME your MIL crosses a line. This woman would like your husband to divorce you and go and live with her (I know this because my GM behaved in exactly the same way). Your husband is on your side, but bear in mind that it may take him a long time to accept what his mother's really like (because she's his mother after all). What you must do is SYSTEMATICALLY point out everything she does that is unacceptable, and curb her.

What distancecalls says! Can point it out calmly without actually being aggressive ... "That doesn't work for us" is a good one.

Other than that? Hmm ...

If she starts telling you how to bring your son up then thank her, say you'll think about it and leave it at that. if she brings it up again, then say that you've discussed it and are trying something rather different. If she carries on, ask her to leave the subject. Last resort, cut the time with her short. (my wonderful MIL is prone to this flaw too, but a smile and a thank you usually tides us over ... very occasionally, very, I've been known to get a bit snappy).

Regarding coming to your house, you need to decide together what you are comfortable with and then both hold to that line. So, if you can stand the idea of an afternoon, make it the afternoon and no longer. Arrange an appointment that you just have to go out for, if necessary (she doesn't have a key does she?!)

If she rings too much, stop picking up the phone more than say 2 times in the week. Let it go to answerphone, get call screening, whatever is needed.

Don't let her have DS alone. You aren't happy with it. Don't do it. You do need to talk to your husband about this one though and explain why you aren't happy - both the way out parenting ideas and your deep unease with her.

Don't be railroaded into having her to stay. Really stay strong on this. She outstayed her (nonexistant) welcome after your son was born.

Could you live with the idea of your husband going to stay with her for a weekend once a year? it's an awful lot better than 2 weeks away (!!) and still giving her something, just to show the door isn't closed.

I do think your husband needs to tell her not to badmouth you. Also, that cuts both ways; while you might have to discuss how to deal with her, avoid ranting or badmouthing. If he says "don't be unpleasant about happymum, she's my wife" and says that he will leave if she can't be pleasant (and follows through) she should get the idea.

More than anything else, ensure that you and your husband communicate over everything to do with her. You said she was manipulative. She might try to drive a wedge between you. Buying the train tickets was presumptuous or it was manipulative; telling her firmly that she shouldn't have done that without checkign with you first that she could stay is the best way.

Actually that's a good one all round; she needs to check with you before coming or arranging anything that is going to impact on you. it's basic good manners whether she's the neighbour down the road, your oldest friend or your mother in law!

... er .... that should be a start! is there anyting else in particular? :)

and yes, Toxic Parents might be quite a help

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divide_and_rule

Thanks Meerka- you are so wise!!There were a few developments yesterday. She texted DH to say that she has booked herself accommodation. I feel so relieved now I stood my ground because I think this may be the first time anyones actually stood up to her.

I genuinely think its taken us saying she cant stay at the house to realise that her actions will have repercussions. I am definitely going to keep in mind the toddler thing. I think its the way to go. Every time she behaves badly she must know there will be consequences, and that she isnt the only person in the world with feelings.

DH then got a call later in the day from his aunty so she had obviously been on the phone to her talking about it earlier in the day. She has had a difficult relationship with her too over the years- no surprise there- to say that she understood she was a difficult woman and saying fair enough, youre putting your foot down and thats a good thing, but also to bear in mind that because she spends a lot of time alone she forgets how to behave with other people. (Again, not sure I buy this an excuse.. my mum lives alone and she seems to manage perfectly well?!)

Either way, I feel a sense of calmness that we have done the right thing. I'm really dreading seeing her and having anything to do with the toxic woman, but I know I should and must for DH.

funkybold just read your link!! Brilliant

OP, you're very perceptive and I think you have a very good understanding of what she is playing at. Hold onto your gut feelings and don't engage in any wilful blindness where you excuse and minimise her behaviour. Your husband may well want to do this - see Attila's comments upthread about FOG - but you need to maintain your clear head about this.

Your comment about MIL wanting her son to fill the role of husband is grim, but I completely get it! My MIL is the same with my DP. Boundaries, boundaries, put your foot down, trust your gut and no more pandering to her.

X post! Glad you feel relieved and that she has changed her plans.

Ignore the aunt's special pleading. Toxic people often send in their 'flying monkeys' to put their case across when people stand up to them. Nod and smile, but stand firm. Like you say, it may be the first time that someone has stood up to her - now you know it can be done so carry on!

Agreed you have a lot of perception over this!

I can sort of see your aunt's position but as you say, most people still retain knowledge of how to behave even when they live on their own. But she's obviously pretty much like a child in some ways; let her get away with it and she'll do it again.

Indeed your MIL is like a child in that her emotional development stalled and perhaps indeed stopped at about 6 years of age.

I would also smile and wave at the aunt's pleadings as well, this is a flying monkey sent in by her sister to do her bidding. Of course her sister is not this way because she lives on her own. Your MIL is the centre of her own universe and cannot live at all around other people because she cannot understand why they are not all like her.

Someone has probably said this but you shouldn't have let DH ask you if she could stay, thereby making you the baddie when you said no. Decide with DH what is going to happen in the future and he deals with her, he tells her no.

Any time you spend in the company of your MIL should only be with you're DH there. Don't allow yourself to be alone with her, ever for 30 secs.

Won't hurt to remind your DH that he broke previous agreements regarding her and that in order to minimise issues and move on as quickly as possible you need to ensure this doesn't happen again.

If she asks him things that fall outside the agreed boundaries, HE should immediately say no. He can then discuss it with you at a later time and see if you're ready to move the boundaries slightly. This way the rules are presented to her from him and there's less chance for her to say you are pulling his strings. Any changes in her favour can be presented as 'Happy has suggested...'

Firstly I think MIL is out of order, but surely she could cuddle your DS if you & your husband are both there ,

Thank you ALL you have no idea how much it has helped being able to chat it through and hear you all say the things Ive been thinking but didnt know if I had over analysed or if I was being overly harsh. 3teenageboys she can absolutely have a cuddle with DS- I was just saying that I wouldnt be happy with DS staying the night with her on his own. But thats by the by to be honest because that obstacle has yet to crop up (joy!) Moniker I did say this to him, and he did admit he didnt see it in that way. She still has a way to put on a baby act with him and act like its the world vs poor little her which he does fall for. But you are right, going forward I need to firmly establish with him BEFORE he asks otherwise I do end up feeling like the wicked witch and it puts me in a position where I feel like I'm making life difficult for everyone else- which I'm not trying to do. I am just so aware that if I dont react properly to this now it will only get worse for us all.. I shall be re-reading your replies over the next couple of weeks before the dreaded meeting!!

He just wants the problem to go away and for us to be one big happy family

Please tell your DH that minimising this, being avoidant rather than clear, and papering over cracks is the surest way to have repeated crises with his mother. No one will be happy, there will be festering resentments all over the place and people being played off against each other with poor DS in the middle. Your DH needs to deal with her adult to adult, not as carer or child.

The best way to find a means of getting on is to be kind, to be clear but also to be firm with her. Nothing you've mentioned in your posts is an unreasonable or unfair requirement, after all.

Yes you will still see her, she isn't going to be shut out. No, you will expect her to ask before arranging to stay and not staying for longer than agreed. If she is insulting to you and shouts or tries to shut you out during her stay she will have to leave. You and DH will decide how DS is cared for etc etc.

And Moniker is right, you and DH have to work out what you're going to suggest and then he can tell his mother.

Agh!!! Just found out that DH has told his mum he will pay for half the accomodation because she is saying she can't afford it. Firstly, she can afford it, it takes the piss, and secondly I feel that him paying for half is making me look like the wicked witch... I'm fuming. This whole thing is driving me crazy... Is it wrong that this annoys me? Am I just over reacting at irrelevant things now because I'm angry?

No. You're not wrong to be annoyed.

Your husband is being spineless.

Literally starting to feel like I cannot cope with this woman!!!! Nothing is EVER simple with her she is ALWAYS manipulating EVERYTHING

She's made it a battle for your son.

Atm your son is still sitting on the fence but he's going to have to choose a side - either actively or by default, because from the sound of it MIL isn't going to be happy until she dominates everything including your son and you sound like there's no bloody way you'll put up with that. So it'll be you or her, a fight she's created.

I think that there are threads on here that give some advice on how to steer a husband into choosing his wife - which fgs he's supposed to do - over his mother.

If you can find those threads or if someone can post the advice again, that might help.

Those threads have better advice than I have. Failing those, all I can say is that you need to speak very clearly to your husband about what is going on. Talk over his mother's finances as far as they are known, talk over why she's asked for his money. Tell him plainly but calmly how it makes you feel and make it clear that you are being alienated and that you love him, but you can't cope with his mother.

Deep breath. Ok thanks Meerka. I have gone to bed and we are now not really speaking. Hopefully it will seem better tomorow. I will try and find those threads...