Husband's female friend

[mermaid101]

My husband and I have been together for about ten years, married for three and have two DC, one who is six weeks old.

When I met him, he was part of a big social group. This group has naturally drifted a bit as people settled down, but he still sees a lot of his friends.

When we met,and for many years after I had a very big issue with him and one of his female friends who is part of this group. I feel they behaved almost as if they were together. There are numerous examples I could list, but I want to try to keep this as brief as possible, but happy to elaborate if anyone wants. This has caused massive arguments between us over the years and has badly dented my confidence. Gradually, he and she drifted apart. My DH says he let the friendship go as it made me uncomfortable.

This person had a baby at the same time as me and my DH has said he wants us all to meet up to avoid any future awkwardness as he says that now we have children of the same age we will be seeing more of each other as people in his social circle tend to gravitate towards each other more when they have children of the same age.

I'm really upset by this. I feel undermined and humiliated by the way they used to behave together. I am also worried that they slip back into their old "relationship". He is mostly a SAHD and I will return to work full time afte my maternity leave. Whereas I don't think they are going to have an affair or anything, you never know do you? And I just can't bear the thought of them being the way they were in the past: having special nick names for each other, her phoning him for reassurance when she was upset about things, hugging play fighting etc.

I'm very sleep deprived just now and feel a bit fragile and over emotional but I feel very uneasy about this situation. I'm also very upset that this person may start to be around me more. I have made friends with some of the other mothers in the group and enjoy their company. What should I do? I ended up having a massive argument with my DH last night and it felt like we were fighting about stuff we used to years ago. I'm so tired just now I can't think straight. Could anyone give me some guidance ?

The friendship seemed to fizzle out when we came to a bit of a cross roads in our relationship. We had been living a very hedonistic life and parting hard. This was starting to cause a variety of problems, including the issue with this woman. I had suggested to my DH that it appeared we wanted different things as I wanted to rein in the partying and do different things and he seemed to want to continue. I suggested going our separate ways with no hard feelings.

The result was that we stayed together, gradually cut down the nights out and the contact with this woman seemed to mainly stop. We still saw her "around" at weddings and things but not in the way it had been.

Twinkle, you are absolutely right. This, I think, is at the root of my distress. If he/they would admit that their behaviour was out of order, I would find it so much easier to move on from this. His dogged insistence that it was a normal, innocent friendship is so hurtful. He says that he let the friendship go as it was causing me so much upset, but I feel this is a bit blameful and accusatory.

And any fucker, yes exactly. After the contact pretty much stopped, this was all swept under the carpet. It is so difficult to discuss this with my DH because he gets so exasperated and defensive. But then it can flare up like this whenever she is mentioned.

I'm dismayed that it looks like she will become a part of the group of mum friends I have made. I really like being part of this and my DD really benefits from it. I feel if I with draw from this she will suffer and I really don't want that.

You're under no obligation to see ever see her other than at social gatherings though. She doesn't have to become a personal friend of either of yours. You can be perfectly polite to her when you see her but you don't have to be friends like you may be with some of the other mothers.

Your husband is actually the one who kyboshed this whole friendship by behaving without boundaries, refusing to admit it, refusing to regularise their relationship by including you and her partner, and then making you feel guilty by telling you he gave her friendship up for you.

To be honest I think it's more likely that she cooled off once she saw he wasn't going to leave you. (Unless she was already married at that point).

If he had dealt with this all differently, then potentially it might have been workable. He is the one at fault here.

Your update is making me think about the impact having children can have on our life and identity. Is he nostalgic (word seems wrong but can't find a better one) for a time when life was more hedonistic, to borrow your term? Is it about what this woman represents to him?

I don't know, I would respect my DH's friendships. I would be wary of calling the shots and asking him to chose you or her. He married you, so has already chosen you, don't ask him to chose again.

However, it is perfectly acceptable for you to be ambivalent and for that you don't need to be apologetic. Why don't you agree to meet up, but later, say when the baby is 3 or 6 months. As sensible grown up adults, it is also acceptable for some conditions to be attached. The condition is that you always meet together (as 2 couples, or as part of a group) and that they don't rekindle their special (juvenile) friendship which excludes everyone else. They are married, with children now, so must behave in a sensible fashion, showing courtesy towards their life partners.

Obviously keep your eyes and ears open. Treat them like you would 2 teenagers, and at the first whiff of rule breaking, the deal is off.

Congratulations on the baby!

Conditions? Treat them like teenagers? sorry, Sapat, I don't think that sounds like respect, and it's a recipe for misery to boot.

Why on earth would anyone want to meet up with someone like this ? Whether her husband is present or not , there really is no valid reason for inviting a cheater into your life. If you like with dogs you'll get fleas. Your husbands stupid choices don't have to become yours.

I think he's brought this up at this time to test you. It's absolutely not on , but in a way it can be made into a positive. He's telling you that he doesn't think his past behaviour was a problem . Therefore behaving in a similar manner in the future won't be a problem either. This is an opportunity to discuss what was swept under the rug all these years ago. If he won't discuss it without being ridiculous you've got bigger problems than this woman.

His boundrys are way off , and I wonder if that's the case in general or just in regards to this woman ? I'd think about this carefully. As for all this guff about not thinking he's done anything wrong , get yourself a good looking male friend and go off partying with him and snuggle ect. See if he thinks that's ok.

christ almighty, sapat, what a shitty way to live that sounds like

What a time to give you this sort of stress, just tell him straight. He knows how much their 'cosy' relationship has affected you, just tell him you have no intention of rekindling the friendship because of past inappropriate behaviour on both sides. Tell him he can either have a happy peaceful life with a contented wife or a miserable life if he insists on bringing this woman back into your lives. Don't give in to him. Why on earth should you have to have all that upset.

Write a numbered list of every single incident that happened and next time he starts on about her present him with the list and tell him that as a younger and less confident woman you let it slide, there is not going to be a repeat and said list shows exactly why a much older and wiser you is not having any of that shit again, so he can get the fuck over it, or else you will hand your notice in and send him off to work and you will stay at home and be topped up with tax credits if need be as you are not working your arse off to allow him time to indulge himself in treating you like shit

Well said Felicity

These men piss me off. Does he not think that you have had admirers over the years Op , that no one has ever flirted or flattered you ? Is he so arrogant that he thinks you are totally satisfied with your marriage and his stupid friendship should be rekindled ?

I suspect some men think once they are married they can confidently present the worst version of themselves and their wives should quietly accept it. Your husband probably presumes you'll sit quietly by while he rekindles his friendship with this horrible woman. I would make it absolutely clear that this is not going to be the case.

I wouldn't threaten divorce unless your willing to go through with it but I would make it absolutely clear that you are not short of offers yourself. Eg , handsome so and so at work regularly invites you to parties ect. You've never gone because you don't think it's appropriate in a marriage , but if he's going to be socializing with an opposite sex friend , then so are you. That means you'll rethink that invite and he had better not ever say a word about it.

Being reasonable with an unreasonable person doesn't usually work. Subjecting them to their own behaviour is often surprisingly effective. A morning with horrible friend is worth it when there's no consequences. He's not going to agree to you having a similar friendship. She's not worth it .

If it just 'popped into his head' OP, maybe he vocalised it before thinking it through properly. After sleeping on it hopefully he'll realise what a silly idea it was!

Any idea what other people in this friendship group think about this behaviour? Are they condoning it? Embarrassed by it?

Just for the record, I think his behaviour is out of order. I'm very relaxed about opposite-sex friendships (my DH occasionally goes on holiday with his female best friend, and they share a hotel room, and I know they both massively confide in each other and support each other, which is all fine by me because I trust them both - THAT'S how relaxed I am about the issue) but what you describe would be waaaay over the limit of what I'd find acceptable. You clearly can't trust her at all, and he is not behaving like someone who is concerned for your welfare and feelings. She has behaved in a way that sounds rather predatory, and however much he protests his innocence, he hasn't shown the slightest inclination to manage that predatory behaviour.

i think id go along the lines of " if you ever even think about becoming friends again with that fucking woman, then you are a cunt and its over because i am not sitting here getting humiliated by you one more time"

I would go with what Felicity said.

Thanks so much for all the advice and support. It's really helped me to clarity my thoughts, which is hard when I'm a bit sleep deprived.

As I see it, I have two main problems.

1. it is so difficult to speak to my DH about this as he is so insistant that he has done nothing wrong and that the "fault" lies with me for bring upset about a perfectly innocent friendship. Until I can resolve this, I can't see the situation and my feelings progressing and/or resolving in any way. Any advice on this count?

1. It looks like this person is going to be around in my life a but more. I need to try to find a way to manage this so I don't feel horrible before and after any meeting.

I am still very concerned about the timing if this. I guess I'll just need to see how things play out.

He knows full well it was inappropriate but he has a lot to lose by denying this. If he admits it was inappropriate he won't ever be able to get away with this behaviour ever again. I think he's reserving the right to behave however he wants in the future and he will play the same card. Ie It's innocent and you are paranoid. Like last time.

He doesn't have to admit it for you to be very clear about what is acceptable to you. Just like you don't need a teenager to admit their behaviour was wrong before you issues a consequence.

Regarding the issue of her being in your life , why is this ? I would be curt and make it clear I didn't like her. I'd also tell other people why.

You are just going to STFU about it then ? You really can't see you have any other option ?

Oh dear. Welcome to Stepford

Ouch any fucker!

I don't feel in the right place just now to fully take this on. I've just had a baby and feel like I
Can't think clearly. My first step is to try to discuss and resolve the issue and addrss it as before it was swept under the carpet.

I would give him my bottom line that until he can admit that his behaviour was inappropriate then neither of you will see her, and there can be no forward movement on the discussion. Then the ball's in his court.

You never have to see her if you don't want to. If you're ok with her at gatherings with lots of other people, that's fine, but you don't have to see her outside of that (and you don't have to go to those gatherings if you don't want to).

Thanks twinkle.
I think that is how I'm going to proceed. Because until he will admit that what happened was out of order, we are locked in this circular argument. I will never "back down" or agree that I may have over reacted bacuase I feel so strongly that I have called the situation correctly.

The reason I will have to see her more is that now she has had a baby, she seems to be spending time with the group of "mum" friends I have been hanging out with since I had my older child. She has known these people since she was a child and I am the " outsider" if you like. She has a "secure" place in the group. I don't feel confident to make any waves.

I suppose I don't have to spend time with them. Obviously it's not a life or death situation or anything, but my child has established friendships in this group, they are local and may end up being long standing and good friends for her. I would be loath to disrupt that.

I have a very simplistic view of this.

If my DH was uncomfortable with a friend I had that he felt was over stepping a boundary then I would listen to him and reel it back. Why? Because he's my husband and thus most important relationship and friendship.

I do caveat this by saying my DH is reasonable and not controlling.

However as you have described OP the relationship you describe has RED FLAG all over it.

It's not normal or appropriate to call you married friend at 2am. It's not appropriate to indulge that behaviour by hugs and heartfelt talk at someone else's party in a secluded room. That's how you behave as a teenager.

You are not out of line OP.

His priority right now is you and your child. Not rekindling a relationship that has already been proven to be toxic at a crucial time in your family life.

The only thing he is right about is "it's different now". Yes it is. You have a baby now which make his suggestion more not less one of stupidity and disrespect.

I would go with what twinkle said, but be clear where your line in the sand is, and what you'll do if he crosses it.

Can you avoid the gatherings when she's there, leave them as her support and friendship group, but create your own that she isn't invited to?

Mermaid, thats why i said write it down, its very hard to deny or minimise thing that are in black and white and infront of your face, do not, and i seriously mean do not back down, you might as well tie a bow round his cock and hand it to her if you do, take it from someone who has been there, yes he will be pissed off and sulk, but he will get over it eventually

Also, "friendships" look very different post-babies. It's a phone call, not all night benders.