Husband's female friend

[mermaid101]

My husband and I have been together for about ten years, married for three and have two DC, one who is six weeks old.

When I met him, he was part of a big social group. This group has naturally drifted a bit as people settled down, but he still sees a lot of his friends.

When we met,and for many years after I had a very big issue with him and one of his female friends who is part of this group. I feel they behaved almost as if they were together. There are numerous examples I could list, but I want to try to keep this as brief as possible, but happy to elaborate if anyone wants. This has caused massive arguments between us over the years and has badly dented my confidence. Gradually, he and she drifted apart. My DH says he let the friendship go as it made me uncomfortable.

This person had a baby at the same time as me and my DH has said he wants us all to meet up to avoid any future awkwardness as he says that now we have children of the same age we will be seeing more of each other as people in his social circle tend to gravitate towards each other more when they have children of the same age.

I'm really upset by this. I feel undermined and humiliated by the way they used to behave together. I am also worried that they slip back into their old "relationship". He is mostly a SAHD and I will return to work full time afte my maternity leave. Whereas I don't think they are going to have an affair or anything, you never know do you? And I just can't bear the thought of them being the way they were in the past: having special nick names for each other, her phoning him for reassurance when she was upset about things, hugging play fighting etc.

I'm very sleep deprived just now and feel a bit fragile and over emotional but I feel very uneasy about this situation. I'm also very upset that this person may start to be around me more. I have made friends with some of the other mothers in the group and enjoy their company. What should I do? I ended up having a massive argument with my DH last night and it felt like we were fighting about stuff we used to years ago. I'm so tired just now I can't think straight. Could anyone give me some guidance ?

I can see why you don't feel comfortable with their friendship.

It just 'popped' into his head when his wife's just had a baby & he's probably not getting much sex hmm...

I'm wonder why after about 5 years of no contact (maybe), has he decided now you are at your most vulnerable to bring it up, did he think you'd be more agreeable.

My ex didnt have contact with a friend of his for 4 years when we got together, about 2 years into our relationship when DD was a baby, said friend got into contact, I encouraged the contact (big mistake), their friendship verged onto an affair, I told him I was unhappy, he apologised said he'd change, 8 months later he left me.

I wish I really had to strength to lay it on the line with him about what would happen, if he continued to shit on my feelings.

I had a feeling that when OP elaborated, there would be further unequivocal justification of how she was feeling

Well balanced people, who have not been made to feel this way by the actions of their partners, do not make a fuss about nothing in my experience

OP, was all this swept under the carpet at the time ?

You agreed to "move on". ?

This is why it's a bad idea to do that. Sorry.

I think I thought I was trying to be laid back and accepting!

This is one of my least favourite parts of patriarchy. The spectre of the nagging wife (another of my favourites), the jealous shrew, her indoors, endless negative stereotypes of women as joyless and controlling, infect all of our relationships - men call up these ideas at convenient moments to undermine the validity of women's emotions, and we women have internalised them. We are expected to be the cool girl - even when BF our fucking children.

Sorry, it makes me so cross.

OP if you're going to have this discussion, and I suspect your husband is not going to let it go, then for your own sake calmly explain what you have to us. That you were wrong to accept it, and you won't be accepting it any more, and you hope he cares more about your - his wife's - feelings, than a flirtation. Though please don't issue any ultimatums. In my vast experience they drive only the issuer mad, because they are an expression of powerlessness.

It's a conversation that can be difficult to have. Your DH probably feels like because he has no plan to have an affair you are being terribly unreasonable and controlling and so instead of discussing it rationally has gone on the defensive and made things worse.

Do you think he really understands that you aren't accusing him of anything or demanding anything but are upset and trying to express why?

My DH used to get like that sometimes. He doesn't deal with things the same way I do and so if I was telling him I was upset he heard "you've upset me. I'm angry with you. You fix it" whereas I was really saying "I'm upset because I feel this, I want you to acknowledge my feelings and discuss with me how we can compromise".

I would be very very upset if my DH behaved with one of his female friends as yours does. I would feel hurt and disrespected by it - even if I totally trusted him - that's because it's outside of what I consider appropriate boundaries.

I think you should talk to him about it but not immediately if you can avoid it being an issue. New babies are incredibly stressful on relationships so if you can put other stressful issues on the back burner for a while and just not see her.

I would take it to an ultimatum. But you have to mean it. If you are noit prepared to treat this as the dealbreaker it bloodty well should be, then you only weaken your position

Be very, very clear about what you are prepared, and not prepared to accept. And what you will do if it is made obvious that your boundaries will yet again be pissed all over.

This is if he pushes it, of course. But you have to talk to him first and see if he is prepared to put your feelings first on this matter.

Please save ultimatums for further down the line. I doubt you have the strength, resolve, and resources to back one up now, and a failed ultimatum is humiliating, it leaves you feeling powerless and trapped. God, I know it.

More constructively, you two need to feel like more of a unit, not less. Talk to him when you're calm, and you feel you can stay calm. Explain your feelings, don't get into speculating about his. Give him the space to decide his own behaviour.

Sorry if that sounds like letting him off the hook, or putting the onus on you - it's sincerely not meant to. It's the sanest way to proceed for you. With a six week old at home, on some level, you have to detach.

I think your jealously is justified. I think a lot of girls would have dumped a boyfriend if he was behaving that way with a female friend but it is a good thing he took a step away from her for all these years.

It sounds like they always had a flirty friendship so no If I was you I would never accept them having a close friendship again. If he chooses her over you then that should tell you everything about their 'friendship'

This happened to me. They did have an affair, I found out, he left. She had just left her husband. She now pays for his drink.

Holding hands?

Are you even kidding me?

To be honest, with the timing I think it's pretty obvious he is looking for this as an opportunity to get back into her life. If he is going to mainly be a stay at home parent, and so is she, he probably plans to hang out with her a lot, and go to baby groups together, etc. But he needs to arrange this in a way which you can't get furious at, hence the "so we need to make friends again" as if it were some kind of reasonable next step in your lives.

I should add that I am not assuming he has some dark motive behind this, such as he wants to start up an affair - it may be simply a matter of "hey X will be in the same position, so we could hang out loads and I won't be bored!" It's perfectly possible he is approaching this from a purely platonic angle.

However, that doesn't mean that you simply have to be comfortable with it.

You really need to stick to your guns on this - if you give an inch he will take a marathon, and then say "but you SAID it was okay if...".

You should be clear that his friendship with this woman made you look like a fool, and yes, he DID do something wrong. Holding hands with another woman when you are in a relationship is shitty behaviour. Sitting with your arm draped around another woman when you are in a relationship is shitty behaviour. Putting another woman first when you are in a relationship is shitty behaviour.

You guys seem to have arrived in a good place after all this drama, which was achieved through their contact being cut. Make it clear that you aren't prepared to re-visit the past, and to be made fool of.

He has a choice to make and he needs to make it now. What does he value more - your relationship or his relationship with this woman?

Oh and just to add - it CLEARLY isn't you being paranoid if this woman's husband feels the same way you do. If you were being total wacko crazy paranoid lady, then her husband wouldn't have a problem with it, would he?

God I'm so angry on your behalf!

If someone treated one of my friends like that I wouldn't be able to stay quiet.

OP- I work closely with men on a day to day basis in a job where you become more like family than colleagues- if I behaved like this with them it would be very inappropriate and over step the line.

I find it a bit bizarre that: "He insists that it was nothing but a normal, innocent friendship that I over reacted to."

And: "He gets really angry when I try to discuss what made/makes me uneasy and keeps shouting "I haven't done anything wrong"

Surely anyone knows that the behaviour you describe OP is not 'normal' and is disrespectful when you're in a ltr.

I think you would feel more reassured if he admitted that they crossed the line, and said "I'm sorry if you were hurt I was young and stupid, that's all in the past" type thing. Completely denying it makes it worse & you then think what else is he denying?

I just cannot understand why my DH thought this was a good time to bring it up. It really is strange

I hate to mention this, but is there any possibility at all that he thought you'd be more vulnerable with a tiny baby, and therefore more likely to just roll over and take it?

I had a similar situation when OH's very flirty female friend suggested they set up a consultancy together. Perhaps foolishly I tried to be "sensible" about it, only to find this led to downright pisstaking and threats of legal action when I finally had to say something

As MNers constantly say, your instincts are there for a reason; don't fail to listen to them

I think it's important to keep in touch with old friends during relationships. Especially, with the current divorce rates.

So, I'd tell your DH to stop any behaviour you don't like. If you don't want to see her OP, then don't invite her round.

Having seen OP's update I hereby revoke a lot of what I said earlier.

It's just as Elephants says. He is telling the OP that he is going to be seeing more of her. I would hazard that they've kept in intermittent contact and now the coincidence of their children being a day apart, and maternity leave / SAHD, has opened up the possibility in his mind for seeing her more.

I doubt there's some master plot - it's his ego, and the excitement of an old flirtation. He should put his marriage first.

Good for you, Sunna.

Something similar happened to a friend of mine when she was pregnant and then it carried on through first couple of years of her ds life. Her 'd'h acquired a female friend and all the late night phone calls etc started, crisis he had to run to her to handhold her through etc.

My friend made it clear how she felt about it but he was all 'she's just a friend' Anyway, no idea if they had a sexual affair or an emotional affair but after a few years they drifted apart as the hobby they had met at finished.

Now though, 8 years down the line, my friend is leaving her 'd'h because she can't forgive him for putting her second at such a vulnerable point in her life. She says her love for him just died during that time and she can't get it back. He of course is devastated but it's a bit late now

Op- good luck and congratulations on your baby

I would tell him in no uncertain terms that there will be no contact with this woman , and that if she's so important it's going to be an issue he can pack his shit now. The fact he doesn't see a problem with his behaviour then or now would have me questioning my marriage and his motivations.

We don't have cheaters in our friendship group. End of. I think you need a serious talk about what is and isn't ok in your marriage , and I think you should mean it. Personally I wouldn't tolerate her either , let alone be civil.

Considering their inappropriate previous behaviour I wouldn't tolerate any contact between them whatsoever.

The majority of their contact ended after we had a bit of a cross roads in our relationship.

We had both been partying quite hard and living a very hedonistic lifestyle. While it had its good points, I was starting to grow out of it and it was causing terrible problems in our relationship: we were having massive drunken arguments and I felt I wanted to do other things with my free time. The group was quite insular and I wanted a broader social circle. And there were all these incidences with this woman.

So I just told him that I felt our relationship was getting worse rather than progressing and that I thought we wanted different things and that perhaps we should go our separate ways with no hard feelings. I was clear that I couldn't contine as we were.

Gradually we both reined in the partying and I think around this time, his contact with this woman decreased. We both saw her "around" at weddings and such, but the intimate behaviour seemed to fizzle out.

However, when my DH speaks about this, he describes it as ending a very good friendship simply because it made me unhappy. I had often suggested moving their friendship onto what I felt was a more appropriate footing e.g her visiting us together at home or going for lunch as a four with her and her partner, rather than late night liaisons and snuggles at parties. Nothing ever came of it. Until now I suppose. This always made me suspicious.

Twinkle, you have got to the root of it! If he/they would just admit they had behaved badly then I would feel a whole lot better and greatly reassured. It is this insistence that they were normal friends and I was/am crazy and possessive and forced them to end a long friendship.

And yes, any fucker once the majority of the incidents stopped it was all just swept under the carpet. Except it hasn't been dealt with and it can flare up horribly and unexpectedly and I find it very difficult to discuss it with my DH because he just cannot or will not see my point of view.

The added complication is my DC. I have become part of a friendship group with these other mothers who are mutual friends. My DD loves this and benefits greatly from this. I am dismayed that she may now become part of this. If I and my DH when I go back to work, don't see them I feel my children will miss out and I really don't want that.