Husband's female friend

[mermaid101]

My husband and I have been together for about ten years, married for three and have two DC, one who is six weeks old.

When I met him, he was part of a big social group. This group has naturally drifted a bit as people settled down, but he still sees a lot of his friends.

When we met,and for many years after I had a very big issue with him and one of his female friends who is part of this group. I feel they behaved almost as if they were together. There are numerous examples I could list, but I want to try to keep this as brief as possible, but happy to elaborate if anyone wants. This has caused massive arguments between us over the years and has badly dented my confidence. Gradually, he and she drifted apart. My DH says he let the friendship go as it made me uncomfortable.

This person had a baby at the same time as me and my DH has said he wants us all to meet up to avoid any future awkwardness as he says that now we have children of the same age we will be seeing more of each other as people in his social circle tend to gravitate towards each other more when they have children of the same age.

I'm really upset by this. I feel undermined and humiliated by the way they used to behave together. I am also worried that they slip back into their old "relationship". He is mostly a SAHD and I will return to work full time afte my maternity leave. Whereas I don't think they are going to have an affair or anything, you never know do you? And I just can't bear the thought of them being the way they were in the past: having special nick names for each other, her phoning him for reassurance when she was upset about things, hugging play fighting etc.

I'm very sleep deprived just now and feel a bit fragile and over emotional but I feel very uneasy about this situation. I'm also very upset that this person may start to be around me more. I have made friends with some of the other mothers in the group and enjoy their company. What should I do? I ended up having a massive argument with my DH last night and it felt like we were fighting about stuff we used to years ago. I'm so tired just now I can't think straight. Could anyone give me some guidance ?

Anyone who upsets my partner, no matter how friendly would have to come second to my wife who has just had a baby...I am sorry, but she should come first, end of. Not because she is controlling, but because she is the most important woman in his life, more than his friends. How would her DH feel if she had a friend hovering around her who had form while he was at work all day? mmmm, I am sure he would be just Dandy about it, fgs....
As an adult you have to accept things change, by dragging it back up to me he wants his cake and to eat it, platonic friendship or not. I wouldn't spend time with her and I wouldn't want him to, if he didn't like it he could call it a deal breaker and divorce me, because I can tell you 100% my DH wouldn't have it.... Good Luck OP! :)

Oh, I guess OP's objections to her husband acting like an arse with another woman who did shag another from their group, but the strains on their marriage.

You don't trust your husband. If you did you wouldn't feel threatened by this woman so it looks like you have bigger issues to address than just her. From your description it doesn't sound to me like he's done much wrong, you're projecting your insecurities onto him.

If you don't want to see her fair enough but stewing and arguing over this when you have a small baby is just blowing it out of proportion in my view.

I don't think issuing ultimatums is the way to go.

As a sahd, he is going to spending a lot of time with other females without you in the coming months/years. Over time, he will build close relationships with some, who will be strangers to you.

You need a more measured dialogue about the type of behaviours you found distressing a few years ago with this one woman, and for him to acknowledge this was unreasonable with her, or with her or any woman in the future. I wouldn't obsess about this one woman.

If you don't want to see her fair enough but stewing and arguing over this when you have a small baby is just blowing it out of proportion in my view.

OP is only 6 weeks postpartum, her H should know how his wife felt about what he was doing and not drag it up now.

I think you are being totally reasonable to be honest.

It's really very annoying when people say things like "THIS PERSON IS LIKE MY BROTHER/SISTER OF COURSE NOTHING WOULD HAPPEN" because, guess what - that person isn't actually a direct blood relative to you. You are just two heterosexual (in this instance) people who clearly have a very strong bond and shared history. There is nothing whatsoever to prevent that moving into sexual territory.

When you marry, you promise to put that person first. That means respecting their feelings and not behaving in a way which makes them clearly uncomfortable. It doesn't mean having to cut off friends, but it does mean that your behaviour with that friend might have to change. And if you refuse to change the nature of that friendship in any way, then you might have to decide what is more important - having your spouse, or having the "freedom" to play fight, act as heart to heart counsellor, or be super intimate with your friend.

It's called being a grown up.

As a comparison, when you are single you can go out and drink to the early hours of the morning, spend whatever you like on shots, throw your phone into the river and stumble home at whatever hour you feel like.

That would be totally shitty behaviour when in a relationship - if someone says "please don't go out and waste a fortune of our money on getting wasted", they are not being financially "controlling". If they get angry when you stumble in at god knows what hour having been completely un-contactable all night, then you are not being "controlling".

I think having female friends is fine - like you said, he has several and they have ordinary relationships. I believe this woman is getting on your nerves because they do things like 'play fight' and have 'nicknames'...!?! seriously? at this age?

I don't know how old you guys are, but me and DH are late 30s/early 40s and we do not play fight with each other, let alone with our friends. We have some mutual friends (so other couples who we know through our children, friends from other activities) but we also have friends we've made outside of couplehood, through work etc, and that's fine. But saying that, we don't play fight with them either, or call them nicknames that other people don't use!

my name tends to be shortened by people I meet - I shorten it for them too. So I'll introduce myself as (eg), Sam. Most people will call me Sam. No one will call me Samantha. but I have a couple of male friends (and DH sometimes) who will call me Sammy. That's it. there's no special nickname of SammyPie!!

I think you need to make it clear how uncomfortable this is making you feel.

Also, I've got a really good friend (male) and he's widowed but now partnered up with someone. I've met her a couple of times, but I've always made sure I talked to her, whilst taking the mic out of him. So she knows that I don't 'like' him in that way. It helps to get on the side of the 'other woman' as it were!!

for now, I'd tell him specifically what it is that makes you upset. He cannot say 'you are being ridiculous' because it's really about your perception.

I think some people are being a bit OTT and negative towards the Dh. I'm certainly not saying you 'suck it up' op, but cut yourself and your husband some slack.

Yes he said this at a crappy time, but I doubt it was to upset or wrong foot you. She has probably been brought up by the friends due to the baby news.

If your Dh wants to be friends with her, I'd suggest a calm discussion about what you are happy with and not. Arguing is giving this woman power and they aren't even speaking yet.

Things have changed for both her and your husband, so chances are their friendship has too. What about meeting up with her and her Dh and dc? Two families? It might start the foundation of a more positive and healthy friendship for them and start a friendship between you all as parents?

OP's DH's relationship with this woman is not as normal platonic relationship, by anyone's standards.
They were flirting and behaving inappropriately, and the woman sounds manipulative, ringing him late at night. If she was a genuine friend of the DH she would make more effort with his wife surely.

There is an etiquette to being friends with people of the opposite sex. It's based on respect for each other and any partners involved. And nick names and play fighting as adults is not really good etiquette.

If she is a true friend of the DH why would she want to behave in such a way that made her friends partner feel so uncomfortable. (Same goes for the DH as well, he should behave himself as well).

The fact she has had an affair shows a complete lack of respect. And no wonder the OP doesn't like her. And wants nothing to do with her.

Tell your DH that you'll see her when you see her at social events and there is no need to meet up before hand. And that he needs to respect your feelings.

I'd be interested to hear more about the kind of behaviour that made you uncomfortable, mermaid.

"My DH has said he wants us all to meet up to avoid any future awkwardness as he says that now we have children of the same age we will be seeing more of each other." Two points: 1) He is telling you "I am going to be meeting up with her more" rather than "we" will be meeting more, he must know he can't force you to socialise, and it doesn't sound like a friendship between couples if neither of you see her husband. 2) He is obviously nuts if he thinks that them meeting more will "avoid any future awkwardness", that was what caused the awkwardness before! I reckon what he actually means is "we're all going to meet up and you better pretend you like her and are totally cool with our banter because otherwise I'll be really pissed off."

What's wrong here is that he's putting the responsibility for the "awkwardness" on you. If he doesn't want things to be awkward, they both need to be responsible for that. I have a married male friend, and he used to always be popping over to my house for tea and sitting around for hours in the evening. I kept having to send him home, realising that this would make his wife uncomfortable (which it did) but that shouldn't have been my job. He can cut the awkwardness if he cuts out the specific behaviours you find difficult to cope with, and means it. And if he doesn't he clearly doesn't care about your upset and worry.

OP in terms of your discussion with your husband, I think you two need to discuss and hopefully accept the idea that when you're in a marriage, there are many things that are not wrong, per se, but that are bad choices for the marriage - that make the other person uncomfortable, or they don't agree with, or that take you away from each other more than is a good idea. These can include jobs, hobbies, preferences for drinking, smoking, seeing a particular friend, financial differences. None of these things is necessarily wrong, but the marriages that survive will find a balance between what the individual wants and what the relationship needs.

You're on tricky ground with a friend, because it goes to the heart of our personal autonomy, and because there's this modern idea that if you trust your partner, they can do anything they deem ok - and if you don't trust your partner, your relationship is doomed. This seems to be the parameter for lots of of shouting matches up and down the land. It's an incredibly difficult way to live, emotionally, quite unforgiving, only for the strongest and most secure.

In reality, most people are not so strong and secure, and in the marriages that survive and stay strong, people have long let go of habits, choices, and friendships that their relationship might not survive.

It's not a question of right or wrong. It's a question of priorities. It's a question of love, I suppose.

He is, at best, an unthinking moron to bring this up now. But I worry that if you get down to brass tacks, it will all blow up into a battle of wills. He seems to see it as some sort of badge of honour. Or he doesn't want to give her up. You do need to talk about this at some point. Just not when you're both insane with lack of sleep and emotions, good and bad, are already running high. I wish he would just let you both concentrate on your baby.

1) He is telling you "I am going to be meeting up with her more"

Perfectly put, Elephants. That is what is going on.

good post, rooty

"in the marriages that survive and stay strong, people have long let go of habits, choices, and friendships that their relationship might not survive."

I think that's very true, Rooty

Well put rooty. I have a female friend that I've been mates with since mid-teens. We even shared a flat for a while when I was finishing Uni and she was finishing nurse training, as we were near each other and fed up with current flatmates. Just to be clear we had separate bedrooms and there was never anything going on, we both were dating other people. When I got married it soon became clear that my wife was not happy with us being so close, I had a simple choice so my friend became someone that we exchanged cards with and not much more. I decided that my wife's happiness was more important, but I can't pretend that it didn't hurt.

What I would say is that with a six week old baby, with all the stresses and lack of sleep that involves, I'm not sure it is the best time to make big decisions and add to your own stresses.

Elephants, the sort of things which have upset me/made me uncomfortable are:
Sitting in the pub with his arm round her shoulders when I was there.

Coming up behind her and grabbing/tickling her waist

Leaving me in his flat at the tail end of a party to go to a party she was throwing because she was upset about something and not coming back until the next day.

Numerous phone call from her in the early hours of the morning wanting to meet up with him because she didn't want to go home.

Going alone with him to after hours bars and staying out all night

Sitting alone in rooms at busy parties holding hands

Plus the play fighting etc previously mentioned.

To be clear these are things which happened in the past. They don't happen now because we aren't really living that party lifestyle and my DH did cool off on the friendship.

As other posters have identified, one of my main sources of concern is the timing of this suggestion. This is a topic which always causes a problem. I just cannot understand why my DH thought this was a good time to bring it up. It really is strange. I asked him and he said it was just an idea which popped into his head.

IME 'jealousy' of a particular individual when you are otherwise not a jealous clingy soul, is a fairly safe indication that something is up. That something might not be overt, or even something the two parties are aware of, but it's there.

I think he is being massively unfair to you, to introduce this idea at such a vulnerable time x

Mermaid - fucking hell seriously? Sitting with his arm round her? Holding her hand??

No way. Uh uh.

"There is no need to rekindle anything because neither you, nor I, or our child will be having anything to do with her or her child. I don't trust her, I have good reason not to trust her and that's that".

Ooh I'm bristling on your behalf!

Mermaid, How long ago was all this happening, when did the friendship cool down?

Chase we were together at the time. I am mortified I allowed myself to be treated like this.

I think this is part of the reason I feel badly about this. I'm embarrassed and humiliated, not only by the way they have behaved, but also by how I behaved towards myself and let it happen. I think I thought I was trying to be laid back and accepting!

This was a good sixyears ago, maybe more. Things cooled down a lot about five years ago.