Decision made

[adorably2014]

I posted here in June. I can't seem to be able to link to my old thread. After a summer of ups and downs I have decided I don't want to be married to my husband anymore. He has no idea and now the children are at school again I have more time to plan.

My fear is that because what is happening is always in private, how can I possibly document all this and be believed in the divorce courts? For example this summer he had bought me two really expensive pieces of jewellery which he presented to me in front of the children as a kind of I love you gift, only for 5 days later to do the stuff that has made me decide to leave. So he will easily seem like the wronged man with a gold digger wife. I am also concerned what to say to the children when a split is initiated. I don't want them to know exactly as it would be too awful for them but then again is it going to be possible to protect from everything? I also worry that if I talk about what has been going on then my H could potentially be in trouble which I don't want, selfishly I just don't want to have to live with it anymore.

For the moment I am focusing on my course and work experience where I asked if there was possible paid employment. My boss said they were very busy and would probably have two projects I could help with in October and be paid for. I hope it materialises. In the meantime I am putting as much money as possible into my own account. My H has not got access to it but knows the account details. Is it OK do you think or should I set sth he knows nothing about. For choosing a solicitor is it best to take a WA solicitor or one of my own? I reckon my H will get someone really good and expensive so I need to make sure I have someone very very good.

I tried to find a counsellor before the school holidays but it wasn't that easy. I also found that talking about all the stuff in a way made me freeze and reflect so much that I couldn't act if that makes sense. I think when things are over I will then hopefully find the space to talk ... So for now I am trying to get on with practical stuff like following advice on getting paperwork together before contacting solicitors. My H has loads of paperwork. I know because I sometimes do his filing. There are share certificates, pension stuff etc... Do I need to copy everything? If so,does it need to be recent or can I take copies now even if I don't start anything in 6 months' time.

Sorry I sound like such a cold calculating b here. I am mostly terrified of putting the children through such an upheaval but then I keep reminding myself our eldest saw something was wrong with me during the holiday and didn't really believe the explanation that 'mummy is tired'.

Anyway apart from my few questions not sure entirely why I am posting, for support I guess and to update on previous thread after this long gap.

Dont forget as well that as the children get older, as they live with you day in, day out, they have brains in their head and they will be able to balance what he says against what they know - and make their own minds up whether to bother to believe him or not.
Kids are really not stupid.

He's trying to punish you by hurting the children. Children are pretty resilient. It's you who is delicate at the moment, so hide your distress from him.
Some day soon he will get bored, no-one can sustain an act forever. Or he'll meet a new woman who won't want so much energy to be spent on your children.
I know it's galling that he is using them to get at you, but, if they can find any good in him at all, it will benefit them.
Your children will look back at their childhoods and they will see that they had a wonderful mother and a dodgy father.
You've hired a solicitor and soon you'll have a barrister too, it's their job to fight for you and they will. There's nothing new under the sun and your husband is playing an old, easily identifiable game.

Took a long time - but I've found out what the wretched email was about. StbxH's mother was offering to take the children to my country so my parents could see them. They were also being asked to write a letter explaining how little contact the children had with their culture and them, and what effect it had on them, as well as how 'volatile and controlling' I am as a mother/person to live with, and how long it has been going on. Charming ... Apparently there was nothing much to be achieved if they'd replied though
I have my sister to thank for that nugget ... In the end they didn't reply. Apparently my parents had many arguments over it, my mother wanted to respond, my father not. For once he prevailed but my sister also waded into the argument. My mother has been surprisingly subdued since.

Thanks for previous comments. Nettletea yes of course children have a brain but it doesn't necessarily stop them from being manipulated. Weekend 1 with him was interesting, shall we say. He bought them an incredible amount of toys and stuff - but they're not allowed to take any to the house ... He also didn't let dc1 do any homework, who cried when telling me about it and it was a nightmare Sunday night. Dc2 is just so awful afterwards, total brat, answering back, rude. Took two days to get back to normal. I worry quite a lot about dc1 though. I think dc1 can see what's going on, but doesn't quite know where to stand. I don't want to slag h off but sometimes I think maybe in my desire to be as neutral as possible in front of them I might be doing more harm by not giving enough input on what's right or wrong. Also in a way I feel he's asking them to choose, well, not like that, but more subtly. God it's so difficult. He's officially applied for 4 week holiday and also now for more and longer contact. The system allows it but it makes my heart sink ... I feel quite guilty too because I think with the orders it made things so much more adversarial from the beginning in a way I didn't really realise.

tulipbulbs him getting bored. Not yet by the way things are going. Thing is, now I know he had probably plenty of casual sex/prostitute visits on his trip abroads which likely he's still having I'm not entirely sure he cares about a more permanent relationship right now. Yes the kids might look back and realise later, but maybe they could still get hurt or damaged a lot in the meantime.

Good on your dad and your sister.

What a little shit, manipulating his mother and trying to manipulate yours into the bargain. Nothing is too low for him.

I fully believe he will go for as much contact as possible right now, because it's one of the only ways he can get at you, and then not take it in the long run.

What the hell is he going to do with the children for 4 weeks? He'll no doubt take his mum and maybe a nanny too. But even so it will cramp his style - 4 weeks in a house with his mum - he won't be able to bring any women back. I think he will find it exhausting and boring. And all of that will come out of his holiday allowance so he'll only have say 4 weeks left in total to follow up his travel and sex interests.

The orders were absolutely necessary. Even without them this process would have been adversarial from the start simply because it always is with abusive men. Always. Without the orders he would have been at liberty to bully, harass, intimidate, verbally abuse, and potentially sexually abuse you further. It would have been so much worse, please believe me. I've seen women divorce abusive men without the protection of injunctions and it's an absolute nightmare.

I'm so sorry that you are having to put up with all this still and I'm sorry to say, I think it's quite likely that he will keep it up for a long long time. He was abusive in the marriage for a long time so it is in his nature, I'm afraid. You wouldn't have got away from him without the orders would you? He'd have kept on at you till you capitulated.

Are you making a note of all the issues with the children? There may come a point when you need to show the accumulation of incidents. I think you are doing exactly the right thing actually in trying to remain neutral though I'm sure it must be difficult. Your children will see you as their emotional harbour, which is actually why your youngest is playing up with you as she knows she is safe to let out all the stuff she's suppressing elsewhere. Tough for you, I know, but healthy for her to feel secure enough to let her emotions show.

Do you have to agree to the 4 weeks? Isn't 1-2 weeks holiday more usual?

I think 4 weeks is a long time to be away from home and away from their mother, but obviously it's for the court to decide.

It's probably wishful thinking about no orders = less confrontation. I'm still finding my way, really. I mean even my budgeting is wrong, apparently I'm massively underspending I was told today - at least it's not the other way round - it doesn't feel like it after all the bills to pay.

I have to see how weekend 2 goes. It gives me a break if I'm honest and I got lots done but that's not the point and I can't shake off my worries.

Dc1 was crushed and confused, I'd say. He refused to do homework with DC (I guess to cause problems for me at the end of the weekend as it sounded the weekend was all about having fun) when before the divorce he always used to do it with DC and it was actually something they enjoyed doing together, even if it sounds odd. It's a small thing but for DC it was important. Maybe he was hoping to punish me, but he actually punished the child. How bad it that that a supposedly intelligent 50 year old is so intent on making my life difficult that they do something so petty? Thing is DC wasn't blaming him, but self, and that the bit that worries me I don't want the children to be on the receiving end of any twisted crap. They never were when we were together, I was. It's wrong that it should change.

And yes he's keeping tabs on me through them, he knows exact dates and childcare arrangements of a short ft volunteering stint I'm doing later this month. He also makes sure I know he knows by asking stupid questions to my solicitor about said childcare, questioning my judgement. The info was so accurate she (even I) thought I might have told him. It freaks me out. He's also informed my solicitor he intends to sell the house presumably to scare me, maybe he thinks I want to stay in it forever or something. He's like an open book in many ways. That bit of information put in writing was quite useful actually but still... The more he says or does, the more I wonder what on earth I was thinking, it's like a lifetime sentence now. Quite embarrassing too really to think I thought he was so wonderful.

Oh and 4 weeks is unusual. None of the circumstances warrant such a length of time. Good question as to what he would really do for a month, he's got it all sorted on paper though.

Amazing. An out and out bribe to your mother to stab you in the back. Wow. I wonder if it would be helpful to get a copy of the email from your dad.

Just be sure your solicitor knows about how he's treating DCs. From the not doing homework to the toys galore but none for home. I'd discuss the no homework with the school to see if there's some way they can get copies to you so you'll have a heads up for Sunday night. And Especially that it appears he's grilling the children about you.

I'm still in and out of cell. But I'm keeping tabs on the thread.

Good to hear from you Across though I had a split-second hesitation about you being 'in and out of cell', wondering what on earth you'd been up to on your travels . Hope you're having a good time.

I want a copy of the email but my mother has declared the incident closed and won't budge at the moment, and my father never uses computers.

Thinking about StbxH's behaviour is like banging my head on a brick wall. He has lovely, happy (at least they were), generally well-behaved children and to me seems intent on ruining that because he is angry at me. He told them this weekend he's having to go to court because I won't allow them to go on holiday with him. Homework issue still ongoing, I will need to do something but haven't decided how yet. He's asked to swap weekends and asked not to have them the weekend I'm supposed to volunteer, probably because he thinks it'll leave me in a pickle (the children don't know my aunt is coming for that and upcoming hearings I'm dreading anyway).

What he's doing now is something more public as it were, so I feel more able to talk about it. It helps. Also I feel myself hardening towards him more because he's picking on the kids.

But in many ways, despite my best efforts he still has a massive hold on me. I don't know if he realises it but he does. It's weird, when I was in I never felt quite so anxious in the way I do now. So much of what went on and what he said is still affecting me. I massively underestimated how bad it was, I think. I had another scare with the panic attacks but I've got slightly better at controlling them in past two weeks (fingers crossed) except they've recently popped up at times I wasn't really expecting. This weekend I went to the cinema with a couple of mums I know in the evening and had one as we'd just sat down. I had one after as well as they wanted to go for a drink before going home. I hadn't been out like that since December and I didn't enjoy much of it really. Also a man at the work place asked me out for a coffee on my last day, I wasn't expecting it and I completely panicked too. So embarrassing really.

You are absolutely spot on. He is trying to hit you at the most important, most dear things to you, the children. He knows that you, yourself, are now beyond his control. Meaning that he can't make you do things or 'obey' the way he did before. He must be just infuriated, it's probably the first time he's been in this situation. But that's why it's so important to log and document everything involving the DCs because their wellbeing is paramount and you cannot go back to where you were. It will be important, I'm sure, when it comes to court. You may want to talk to your solicitor to see if they think that an independent evaluation of the children may be helpful to your case. Right now it's just he said/she said.

I think what you've been through will affect you for some time to come. Not in a 'paralyzing' way, just that you are in a new life and having to learn to react to things (and him) on your own. Try not to look at it as having a hold on you. Try to just think of it as being independent, but a wee bit scared right now of that independence. You'll get through it.

I also think it's a good thing, at least for a while, to keep the children 'out of the loop' as much as you can about what you're doing, at least until the last minute. Depending on their ages (and solicitor's advice) you may need to have a gentle talk with them about 'if Daddy asks about Mummy, you should tell him to email her' and 'Daddy is angry at Mummy right now and sometimes says things that aren't completely right. You should ask me if you are confused'.

Ha! 'Out of cell' is a common phrase here in the US to show that you aren't where there is any mobile phone service. I didn't think about it meaning I was in jail. We're having fun, but not THAT much fun! LOL

Hi op, I have bumped into your threads every now and again, I would like you to know that I think that you are one of the bravest and strongest women I have ever come across.

You are simply amazing.

Your dc are so lucky that they have you as their mum.

I hope that one day in the not too distant future, you will be able to say to yourself life is good. I wish you much strength so that one day you will be happy.

A side thought, you may find it helpful to make skull-cap and valerian teas to help you with your feelings of panic and to help you feel calmer/sleep better. You can find out how to prepare such herbs and check for comparability with any meds you may be on by doing a search or talking to your gp. These herbs will not stop a panic attack that is in full flow but may help to make you feel calmer in general.

Thanks Across I realised you were talking about your mobile, was just a bit slow and literal... I hope you're having a good time.

I don't know if it's paralysing. In practical terms I'm not too bad at dealing with day to day stuff or trying my best to sort things out. I haven't fucked up in a major way yet anyway. It's emotionally it's really hard. I judge myself through his eyes or what he used to say quite a lot.

So for the volunteering I was so happy when I got it but as it's getting closer I get insanely worried I will have panic attacks, I won't be up to the mark, that he will do something that ruins my week because he knows when it is.
For work which I'm quite keen to find now course is over, it's how I won't find anything, how it's going to affect the children, what he's going to say if I get a job, how he's going to gloat if I can't get a job.
The guy who asked me for coffee it's brought back memories of how h used to say random men/his mate wanted to sleep with me. Basically like I brought on myself what he did to me completely and that any men would have done the same and that's basically how men view me. I know they don't and it's just him talking crap but it still goes through my head. In work mode I was ok talking to that guy, but when he asked me for coffee I felt threatened I guess, even though he seems like a nice person. I felt unbelievably shit about it afterwards. Also because at the back of my mind there's not only the above but also that I thought it would be like cheating on stbxh and the fear that he would go absolutely ballistic if he knew I was even entertaining the idea. Considering what he's been up to it's completely irrational to think like this but that's how I felt.

He's being awful about the children. I'm trying to deal with it but I never thought he would do that. I hope the court doesn't give him what he asks ...

PandorasToyBox thanks for your kind words. I know valerian in teas. Ages ago I bought a herbal tea that made me really sleepy but I can't remember what it was and the ones I've tried recently do nothing much I don't think. Not sure about skullcap. I know it as a bee-friendly perennial but not to ingest. I thought it was pretty strong.

Scull-cap is pretty strong so only a pinch is needed. I buy my herbs from 'woodland herb' uk based site as they are excellent quality and cost effective. I find that valerian is really good if bought on its own instead of in ready made shop tea blends.

Valerian and scull cap can be mixed together, they are best prepared in the morning with boiling water (in a tea ball) and left to seep for the day, to be drunk just before bed time. I advise people to make one lot for the evening and one lot to sip through out the day if needed.

I hope that you can find some calm very soon.

You could add some liquorice root to the tea if you find it tastes better! Liquorice also has the quality that it somehow binds and enhances the properties of the other herbs.
Glad to hear you're still fighting but sorry you're having to do so and that he's still dragging things on, I hope you get some more peace soon! X

Hello again - I'd just like to ask something. I'm finding the therapy really hard. I feel I'm blaming myself more than even a few weeks ago. Now sure if it's linked or just coincidence. I've wondered whether I'm not in a good enough place to do it properly yet or whether it would just be like that anyway. I know I'm away from him but I'm wondering whether it's too soon for me to do anything, say until divorce is over (might be ages!)

I came home crying from the last one last week. My aunt is here so we talked about it (in fact talked about it every evening) which helped as my aunt gets terribly angry about h while I just seem unable to do that, I blame myself. I see him as taking advantage and do recognise he's a total shit but apart from the two occasions he was overtly angry and violent with it I really struggle to think of it as rape. My aunt though thinks it's all to do with him, nothing to do with me and just terrible luck I met him when I did and that anything I do now should make me feel happier not worse. I don't think she sees it as part of a process.

Am I being a wimp and does it get better? The therapist told me I've buried stuff. I know I have. At the moment we're uncovering, it's not pretty but I'm not sure where it's leading me. In a way I think it's good she tells me straight but on the other hand it all feels quite brutal and raw. I don't know if it's what I need right now, maybe I'm overdoing it or does it get better over a whole course of sessions? I knew it was going to be hard and do expect to think about stuff between sessions which I do loads anyway. I expected to be challenged in a way but maybe not quite like that or quite so brutally maybe. I feel like there's no real safety net if it makes sense. Maybe I just need reassurance and not challenge.

I feel very different about the counselling. It's really helpful - because I get to vent about divorce probably, and I also do speak about the coercion etc. But I feel less pushed, it doesn't seem so violating if it makes any sense at all. There's something more positive.

Last week and the weekend were so very busy having the session in the evening wasn't very clever, but even so I already felt a bit like this the time before.

Sat outside in the sunshine meaning to do some work while my aunt has taken the children out for the day but not getting very far. Part of me doesn't want to give up but the other part is wondering whether I'm doing the right thing. I can't compare it to anything I've done before. There's court at the end of the week and I'm completely on edge about that as well.

Hope it makes sense. Sorry it's so long.

Adara and Pandora. Thank you, I'm not so good at herbal remedies that I would try mixing ingredients myself. Camomile for eyes and mint or verbena leaves for tea drinking is as far as I go ...

I think any kind of therapy that involves looking at things in depth is always going to be painful, you're likely to cry, go through turmoil etc - all of that is normal.

However finding the right therapist is hard. It may be that this one is a bit too brutal for you, not sensitive or reassuring enough. If you're going to get to the root of things you need to feel safe and that the therapist is supporting you.

It can take a while to find the right therapist, and you do have to basically audition/interview them and figure out if it's working for you. If it's not, or if it's too much right now with the court case looming, that's ok.

Twinklestein. It started off ok in first sessions. The crying and turmoil I'm ok with (well obviously not but I mean that I know it comes with the territory and I accept it). The amount of self-blaming and kind of self-loathing that I feel has increased. I've always blamed myself but it seems worse. A lot worse.

You've had his 'poison ' in your system for a long time. You bought in to his truth. I think it is going to be painful to get rid of that poison and to find your own truth.

Part of the pain is also realizing that we gave so much of ourself over to another person.

Therapy brings up all these feelings and it hurts bad. But then can begin the process of healing. Then the pain goes away. And that gives us room for happiness and peace.

Although you may find your therapist isn't a perfect match for you. Remember that there will be pain and sorrow no matter who ou choose.

Poison is pretty accurate, Across. So it would be more a phase.
I think it's the self-blame I feel worse about. I thought it would help with that. At the moment it's not. And I'm not expecting things to be easy. I had been unhappy for quite some time when I first posted, and even before I had realised things weren't right, and I did think about stuff quite a lot even though in quite a up-hazard not proactive way. I'm now seeing the extent of how much I let him control lots of things in my life and how isolated I've become despite having such a busy social life. I feel quite inadequate sometimes and really quite vulnerable. What I mean is that I'm not just waiting for therapy to work painless miracles. I'm just not sure if this process is helping me just now. But then again not sure there will ever be a right time?

We'd been discussing the beginning of the relationship when I moved in with him which is really when he started. We discussed one particular instance which to my mind is the first time anything happened. I don't know if I felt so awful because I'll always regret not leaving then or if it was her insistence on getting the semantics right and her telling me how really important it is to do that in terms of progress. I told her all I wanted to understand was why I just kept tolerating everything but she seemed a bit frustrated with me, like maybe she doubts how seriously I'm taking things. Sometimes I think I must give off airhead vibes or something!

Same thing with work. Thankfully my course tutor and the work placement boss have been really positive and supportive but some people seem to think I'm kidding myself to think I can ever get a job. I've been quite surprised really, even some of the mums I meet with. It's quite depressing. Also I met with H's sister (big mistake, really - I think he has lied to her) who asked me what I thought I would live off once the divorce would be over. So I said maybe I could work. She clearly thought I'm deluded.

Hello adorably. I've been following your thread for a while. You are managing so well. I haven't really had much to say before now but I can now add something. It's not quite the same but there are similarities - my husband was raped as a child and didn't tell a single person until approx 2 1/2 years ago when he told me. He undertook some therapy and at first it would take him days to get over the session but gradually it got easier to deal with the trauma. He also blamed himself - he should of told someone, he should never married me without telling etc, if only he had done x or y.... I think that sexual abusers of any type have a way of making the 'victims' / survivors feel ashamed and dirty and responsible. When really it was never you, it was him. I'm really glad you have your aunt to support you, you really need someone to reach out to.
With lots of love

Oh thank you glint I'm so sorry about your husband. I hope things are better for him now.
I kind of want to stick with it, it's just quite a dark negative place and on top of the uncertainty of the divorce I'm not sure. And yes, my aunt is just so lovely - wish she could stay a lot longer.

He has made amazing progress, of course it doesn't make what happened go away but he has managed to function, hold down a job and be a good dad.
He took a break from therapy for financial reasons but has started back again recently.
Having never told a soul, he (and me) took the confidence of others - friends, my family. Having one or two people to turn to when things got tough really made a difference. I think it helped with the 'shame' and blame.

Therapy can be extremely emotional as you have seen, it may be the right thing for you to hold off until you're through the court case, only you can say.

In order to understand why you kept tolerating his behaviour - perhaps it's necessary to analyse exactly what his behaviour was and your reaction to it at the time.

I know that for me in therapy delineating exactly what happened at various points in my life, my understanding of it then and now, was a very important part of the process.

I have learnt by hard experience the difference between owning a situation and blaming yourself for it. The first is entirely positive and the second entirely negative. I decided in the long run that self-blame is a kind of self-indulgent torture - it's really enjoyable to kick yourself to death. Sometimes we make mistakes - mahoosive big ones that ruin our lives for a while - it's so much harder to accept that without judgement, without anger, with compassion, than to put the boot in. I found that one never does get to the point when one has kicked oneself enough - ultimately you just to make a decision to stop. If you're going to stop you might as well stop now as later.

As for all these people thinking you can't get a job.. that's so bizarre? Perhaps they have a stereotype of you as a rich man's wife? None of them sound like they know you that well.

I'm with Twinklestein, I've gone through a fair bit of therapy, and the first few sessions, I cried throughout, kept telling my counsellor how sorry I was, how I was at fault for being too sensitive, not coping better... When you have coped with(by which I mean survived) abuse, of any type, your psyche has built a protective shell for you, as a way of coping with the world. When you go into counselling/therapy, it's like peeling away that shell or scab, and any of us going through it feel scared and vulnerable. You talk about things that made you feel scared, or ashamed, or weak, or foolish, and please don't underestimate how hard it is to reveal the soft vulnerable hurt tissue you built a shell to protect!

If it's the counsellor making you uncomfortable, then please do change, but if it's the issues being discussed that are making you feel bad, then please remember, it's not your shame, it really isn't. You are starting to recover, and taking really courageous steps to a new, better, and happier life. Of course you'll get a job, goodness, where do these people come from? I'm not saying you'll walk into a job that pays you £50k a year, but there aren't that many people doing those anyway! Discount the naysayers, they're talking nonsense.

You bloody keep going girl.