Decision made

[adorably2014]

I posted here in June. I can't seem to be able to link to my old thread. After a summer of ups and downs I have decided I don't want to be married to my husband anymore. He has no idea and now the children are at school again I have more time to plan.

My fear is that because what is happening is always in private, how can I possibly document all this and be believed in the divorce courts? For example this summer he had bought me two really expensive pieces of jewellery which he presented to me in front of the children as a kind of I love you gift, only for 5 days later to do the stuff that has made me decide to leave. So he will easily seem like the wronged man with a gold digger wife. I am also concerned what to say to the children when a split is initiated. I don't want them to know exactly as it would be too awful for them but then again is it going to be possible to protect from everything? I also worry that if I talk about what has been going on then my H could potentially be in trouble which I don't want, selfishly I just don't want to have to live with it anymore.

For the moment I am focusing on my course and work experience where I asked if there was possible paid employment. My boss said they were very busy and would probably have two projects I could help with in October and be paid for. I hope it materialises. In the meantime I am putting as much money as possible into my own account. My H has not got access to it but knows the account details. Is it OK do you think or should I set sth he knows nothing about. For choosing a solicitor is it best to take a WA solicitor or one of my own? I reckon my H will get someone really good and expensive so I need to make sure I have someone very very good.

I tried to find a counsellor before the school holidays but it wasn't that easy. I also found that talking about all the stuff in a way made me freeze and reflect so much that I couldn't act if that makes sense. I think when things are over I will then hopefully find the space to talk ... So for now I am trying to get on with practical stuff like following advice on getting paperwork together before contacting solicitors. My H has loads of paperwork. I know because I sometimes do his filing. There are share certificates, pension stuff etc... Do I need to copy everything? If so,does it need to be recent or can I take copies now even if I don't start anything in 6 months' time.
Sorry I sound like such a cold calculating b here. I am mostly terrified of putting the children through such an upheaval but then I keep reminding myself our eldest saw something was wrong with me during the holiday and didn't really believe the explanation that 'mummy is tired'.

Anyway apart from my few questions not sure entirely why I am posting, for support I guess and to update on previous thread after this long gap.

[glintwithpersperation]

Hi adorably- you are doing so amazingly well xx

[ptumbi]

Great to get such a positive update, Adorably!

You are doing so well, and your dc will get on fine with just you. As twinkle says, having that man in their lives will only bring harm and damage, not the good that you would want for your kids.

[Fishface77]

Hi adorably I'm a long time lurker, just wanted to say you've done fab! Your kids are lucky to have you x

[Twinklestein]

Hey Adorably, really good to see you. I'm so glad you're enjoying your job.

I honestly think that your children would pay a much higher price if they stayed in touch. This is the best of all possible outcomes, even though it doesn't seem like it now. I wouldn't want my kids being around a man like that.

Too many mothers think it's better for children to keep in touch with abusive exes and it just adds to the damage.

I'm both gobsmacked and unsurprised that your mother is still up to snuff.

I've said this before but you have a huge amount of clout, so use it. Tell her calmly that unless she ceases contact with your ex she will not see you and the children. And be prepared to follow through. When she sees you're serious im sure she will capitulate. If only because she won't want the shame of being a gm who doesn't see her gc. She has a choice: you or him.

You've done amazingly well standing up to an abuser. You to assert your power with your mum too, otherwise the abuse from both will continue. (Your ex is only in contact with your mum to torment you and it's probably the same for your mum).

[adorably2014]

Thank you for asking after me Notabear. Sorry I haven't posted. Articulating everything meaningfully in writing seems to take me ages, it's hard to find time to do anything these days, plus I started getting worried about how much identifying info I ended up giving as well...

I'm better than I was last year at this time for sure. I had a real low in December as a lot of things got on top of me. I feel much calmer now. We're getting at the end of the legal process (at last, hopefully). It's amazing how much he had hidden from me, financials and otherwise. Or maybe not amazing. It hasn't really worked in his favour so far though. He's still full of himself and still sends me emails. I feel nothing for him at all, just contempt and fear. He's seen the children once for a family meal since the summer. I guess it says it all. I'm not bothered for myself, quite the opposite. It's for the children. When I take them to activities at the weekend and all the dads are there, it utterly sucks. I've had the conversation so many times with DC1. I think they're paying a really high price here. Leaving him has also meant his family have stopped contact and my parents are continuing to be in touch with him (my mother thinks I'm mentally ill, she actually told me, and still can't accept what I have done, says I've ruined my life and everyone else's. I don't know why he keeps in touch with them, I doubt he does it out of decency, maybe he likes his ego stroked or something or wants to isolate me, I would have thought by now he would have got bored but he hasn't. It's too sick for me to deal with, luckily geographical distance is on my side) so we're not communicating with them either. But we don't do too badly just us. I'm quite organised now. They have lots of friends like before. We do stuff and have fun. We have our moments but they're lovely. It's just a great big sadness and worry I feel when I see families together, or other kids out with their dads especially at weekends.
I'm still working through what I let happen with stbx, what he did, the guilt I feel, etc. Some days I still get very anxious and unsure. I get on with life though, I really like my job too.

[notapizzaeater]

Wow, just read this all the way through and you need a medal :-)

[Notabeararaccoon]

Hi adorably. Just wanted you to know I still think of you. Hope things have become more settled and a little easier. Xx

[AcrossthePond55]

Honestly, I know the children are having a rough time right now, but children are much wiser than we give them credit for. In time they will realize that it is NOT them, that they are blameless. DC1 will realize that his father is selfish and any offers to pay for things are a form of 'bribe' to cultivate favour. DC1 will grow to be an independent soul with a lot of self reliance.

It is up to you to make sure they're OK, and you are doing an excellent job at it. No worries there!

One day at a time is just right.

[adorably2014]

Thanks for your support.

I agree with you it's best in many ways that he's off. Contact has only brought heartache for me, and yes he's totally toxic. However the children feel rejected. There's been a lot of blowing hot and cold since Jan. Even phone contact has virtually stopped right now. He wasn't contactable earlier in the week when they tried and he hasn't called them back since. He promised dc1 to pay for his main activity but never did so or even mentioned it again. Lots of stuff like that. DC1 has zillion questions, goes over things, thinks they did something wrong, dc2 is chirpy self but picking up on dc1's anxiety. I won't contact his mother because I got a solicitor's letter telling me not to, and after the neglect allegations, I'm more than happy with that actually. No contact has meant far less drama and unpleasantness for me and DC2 acts up a lot less. I feel guilty they're having to go through this and upset how little he seems to care though. Also worried about the responsibility now and longer term too. I feel like it's really all up to me to make sure they're ok.

Across He'll be coming back here fairly often I imagine but yes, it could well be the next demand/application. And yes the situation with his mother is totally crazy and unjustified. It's like this wall has been put up.

I try to take one day at a time and to focus on little things. Cocoon-like a bit. Still adjusting to the new routine and hoping nothing like the awfulness of the applications and allegations come to upset anything as it all feels quite precarious. It's good to have the structure and focus of work. It takes my mind off things. It's all quite daunting and I feel a bit ancient, slow and awkward there but hopefully I'll get over it. Childcare has been so tricky to organise. I'm also not quite sure how financially better off working makes me.

Justaboy erm... pretty off the mark I must say, but no offence taken. I've had a solicitor for a while.

[Justaboy]

Yes fair comment Twinklestien. It does look like i missed a page sorry if anyone's been upset or offended, no offence meant at all!.

[Twinklestein]

Just a thought, justaboy you might read the thread before you post.

[Justaboy]

adorably2014 * sorry to hear that your marriage has hit the rocks, If you have decided to end it then that's fine, you do not have to prove anything you just petition the court and that in itself is good enough reason.

A marriage petition can be defended but very very few are.

Then its down to the financial settlement. In brief everything that has come into the marriage over its duration is referred to as Marital property. Sometimes stuff that either party has bought in is generally considered not to be part of that. It can vary.

Then the assumed spilt is 50/50% BUT there are a LOT of factors that can swing that one way or the other. A major part is the children and they are the courts first concern and they are accorded a lot of importance. The courts don't seem to be that bothered about the parents and these days just because he had an affair or you did even that's of no concern nowadays no fault is where its at.

If its deemed that you are the best person to have custody of the children then you will need a home and its very often the case that you will be awarded the family house unless theirs enough equity in that or spare loot around that both of you can split it and be housed but more often than not wife stays but husband moves elsewhere. Then he will almost certainly have to pay maintenance for the children's upkeep and possible you as well though that's changing in recent times.

You and he with have to fill out a form E where you both disclose your wealth and belonging and pensions stocks and shares cars etc loose cash looted treasure the lot!, and woe betide either party if they don't come clean that might have a prison sentence hanging over it!.

You will have to tell them how much you spend on mortgages rates heat and light food car transport etc etc then the court can decide what you should be awarded. However sometimes you maybe able to decide this between yourselves not all divorce causes go the full way to court for most men its a big risk the judge is judge, jury and executioner he can say husband give her everything you have or even the other way around but usually where young children are involved mum has the upper hand.

Best bet is to ask friends in your town if there's anyone to be recommended divorce is common these days so someone will know someone.

This is an excellent site its written by Roger Bamber who is a world authority on the matter. You will find there info about most all aspects its well worth a read. Collaborative law is more the thing these days where its trying to agree on the issues involved rather then the adversarial fight you see on TV court cases and its now realised that a possible collaborative settlement is best for bother parties and the children long term.

Its not pleasant but at the end of the day you will be much happier and if handled well you might be onbetter terms with your ex I am and in a way its been a good thing

www.divorce.co.uk/

[AcrossthePond55]

I'm with Twink. He is NOT a good person nor a good father. The farther he is from them physically, the better. As far as keeping contact, there is Skype, phones, email. He can 'be' a part of their lives if he chooses. As far as visits to his new home, frankly, I'd do all I could to prevent it, at least until they are older (I'd say 13). It seems to me that he has ample means to visit them here. Again, he's just not trustworthy and I'd want them to be old enough to know how and be brave enough to contact the police or you if he was mistreating or threatening not to let them come home. If that's not possible, I'd get an iron-clad 'child return policy' and be sure he lives in a Hague Convention country. If he does not, then I'd do all I could to prevent them visiting him there.

Many children have parents who simply walk away. Most of them do just fine with the parent remaining. Because, like you, they are a good and loving parent.

I'm a bit surprised about his family not contacting the children. I may be paranoid, but speak to your solicitor about it. Could it possibly be that they are going to try and say that you are refusing to allow them to contact the children as some type of ploy on his part? Unlikely, but still better to let your solicitor know. As far as them not speaking to you, well, not surprised by that. It was only time until they 'closed ranks' to support him.

You are doing a wonderful job. I think your panic attacks will lessen and lessen as time goes by. Your life is definitely on the upswing!

[Twinklestein]

I think his moving abroad is the best thing that could possibly happen.

Of course it will be very hard for the children at first, but I think he's so toxic that the less exposure to him the better in the long run.

It's possible he might change his mind, and he will presumably want them to visit him at some point, but I would take it a day at a time.

I imagine this whole thing has been an enormous shock to him, and he wants to get out of the country, away from what he would see as humiliation and failure.

[adorably2014]

I haven't posted for a while. Stbxh IS moving abroad, has seen the kids once since their hols with him and in fact has barely been in touch with them at all. He's back contacting me directly by email again though.
I veer from thinking he's doing the kids and me a favour moving, to feeling awful he can just walk away from them like this and the effect it's going to have on the kids, plus I worry about the complications this brings, and that he might suddenly decide to change his mind, want them to visit him, or is just cooking up some new fucked up scheme. In the meantime, his family has been completely incommunicado. It's all really hard on the children at the moment. Dc1 in particular.

Twinkle you asked about the panic attacks. I did seek help, I seem to control them slightly better, though I still have them, and still a bit unpredictable. Also I actually drive to work as it's out of town a bit, so I don't have to be in crowds so much, which is a blessing.

[Morganly]

I don't have anything useful to add as I think it's been covered by PPs but I have followed your threads before and thought thank goodness you've got away from him and sympathised with your ongoing difficulties, and I just had to laugh at him being arrested for drink driving. Ha, ha, bloody ha, a man who doesn't think the normal laws and moralities apply to him just got reminded.

[Twinklestein]

He really is the most unpleasant man.

Have you had some help with your panic attacks like CBT?

[AcrossthePond55]

Send the email, end it with the fact that you aren't sure what the next action should be, if any, but that you wanted them to know 'the latest'. Perhaps suggest that if they feel action needs to be taken immediately or if his 'antics' change anything about the current course of action, you will be ready at the earliest possible date to meet with them.

He calls you names in front of them, or refers to you as 'XXX' in conversation? Either is despicable, of course, and here (in the US) it is common to have it put in divorce papers that either parent is not to 'disparage' the other, upon pain of having visitation revoked. Don't know if it's done that way in the UK. But again remember, the children have YOU as a role model, too. And though they are young now, they will grow and will be able to make their own judgement about him and his actions. And your gentleness and dignity will make a much bigger impression on who they become than his (pardon me) 'arseholiness'.

[adorably2014]

I've drafted an email to solicitor about all the stuff but haven't sent it yet. I feel slightly unsure what line I'd prefer her to take on all this actually and also truth is I'm dreading re-entering the fray.

I've no idea whether he's really relocating. I'd rather he was, though goodness knows what other problems it'll bring. It'd contradict all his recent applications I think. But it wouldn't entirely surprise me as, cynically, I can see him there, expat community, 'fresh' start, sleazy nightlife on his doorstep, kind of his element. I've told my friend whose husband used to work with him (didn't like him), he hadn't heard anything but he's going to use his contacts to find out.

Clearly the drink driving was excused by people around him. He's never done that, at least in my presence. But yes Twinkle he timed it well certainly, though I doubt he actually cares. The kids told me he was 'under a lot of stress' and not much above the limit ... DC2 takes in everything, there's no need to even ask questions ...

DC2 has no idea what the name calling means, nor how offensive it is though had clearly picked up the anger of it and used it as such. It's the fact stbxh calls me that in front of them that's appalling. So yes dealt with but not really, and actually more damaging than his drink driving. DC1 knows not to repeat it but heard it and I wonder if it's the tip of the iceberg.

I've got to try not to get wound up by it all and sucked in all the drama again because there are a lot of other things I'm supposed to deal with, like housing. And if I'm to be ok in the job I need not to have panic attacks and be as stressed and tired as I've been.

[AcrossthePond55]

Of course you can PM me!!

I'd suggest, if you haven't, that you get to your solicitor ASAP. The drink-driving and especially his supposed move to another country (which I doubt, I think it was said to upset the children) could have legal implications. You want to be sure your solicitor doesn't get blindsided and that you and the children are protected as far as maintenance and his (in)ability to take the children out of the UK. He can afford to visit them here, IMO.

Congratulations on your work. I think it will help you emotionally as well as build your CV.

Be sure you've written down all he's done with regards to the children. Remember that you are their rock. I'm sure they felt very insecure with him. All the behaviour they're exhibiting now is part testing you to be sure you still love them as I'm sure he showed anger and disinterest to them and they probably have become (rightfully) insecure in his love for them and that will spill over onto you. They want to be sure that you still care. "Temper justice with mercy", let them know they can't get away with bad language or disrespect, but also remind them that you love them, even when they misbehave.

As far as his move, it would probably be better for all involved. If the children say anything I'd just say "Well, we'll worry about that IF it happens."

[Twinklestein]

His buggering off to another continent would be the best outcome. Thus limiting your children's exposure to him.

For all his huffing and puffing to get at you, I've never had the impression he was genuinely interested in the children or prepared to spend time looking after them.

He's certainly played a blinder getting arrested while they were in his care.

[adorably2014]

Across Thank you. Is it ok for me to PM you?

I did go away, it was a very short trip. V weird to be solo but I was not as much of a blubbery mess as I thought I'd be. At home it was fairly quiet on the legal front. I did quite a lot actually and lots of lists. I have also found work for 6 months, a pt maternity cover. I think in the last couple of months I sort of lost sight of what this is all about really. Every time something happens it messes with my head. I felt a lot calmer just before the kids came back. But I'm already back picking up the pieces.

Their holiday sounded not that wonderful actually. They're really quite unsettled, both in different ways. I've heard more about his antics than the actual family event they attended. The irresponsible idiot got arrested for drink-driving during their stay. News to me he told them he's relocating to one of the countries he works in quite a lot. DC2 has been quite rebellious and aggressive, called me some awful swear names which she must have picked up from him. Sounds like he relied on his relatives a lot for childcare. I was expecting them to come home and be full of how wonderful it all was with him. Instead it sounds it was quite boring and they were often expected to entertain themselves for long periods of time with no-one making much of an effort and got told off a lot. I feel really quite angry actually. I've dealt with the swearing but the rest makes me want to scream.

The way he blows hot and cold with them as it suits. He tells them everything and its contrary, things they don't need to know. He's made multiple applications at court, sending me over the edge with allegations, his friend's and family's behaviour, when actually he's probably going to bugger off to another continent. And he's emotionally blackmailing them about it to get to me a bit more. He sounds all over the place actually but I don't know how he can do this to them. What sort of effect is it going to have on them? Does he not think? It's so frustrating.

[AcrossthePond55]

I hope things are going OK and you are keeping busy. They'll be back before you know it. Try not to focus on what may or may not be happening at their father's. You can't control it so may as well just adopt a wait and see attitude. There may be some 'damage control' when they get home, but if you remain calm and reassuring, things will be fine again in short order.

As far as his mother, I think you'll (unfortunately) need to regard her and any other relative of his as being firmly in 'the enemy camp' and a potential 'spy'. I hate to use those words, but there it is. I know you are so open and want to believe the best, but in this case you do need to adopt a good amount of skepticism. You need to take a big step back from them and not initiate any conversations and keep contact to a minimum. They can see DC when they are with their father.

Trust in what SS has told you. They've seen 1000 parents like your STBX. Parents that use them for their own ends. You know that you have nothing to hide and nothing to be ashamed or afraid of. Your STBX can't say the same, can he? I'm sure that he won't be too terribly anxious to have his parenting examined, will he. And if SS is going to look at you, they're going to look at him, too!

I really smiled at the grazed knees, grassy bum, etc description. All that indicates to me is a happy, healthy, lively child. As the old quote says "God made dirt, so dirt don't hurt".

[adorably2014]

frankly thank you for your kind words. You're not intruding at all. I don't really give up, I just feel exhausted.

Also, regarding his shouting - when we were together, it sounds awful but if the children didn't agree/do what they were asked I did tend to act as a kind of buffer or to smooth things over. I think now I realise I was doing that a lot. If things went smoothly H tended to be nicer to me. But now there's no one to do that. dc1 has expressed this in a roundabout way as we tried to sort out the problems with the homework. Now, dc1 is getting older obviously but has also become more assertive in the last couple of months. It's something I've encouraged. But instead of helping things. It seems to have created more problems. With H seemingly trying to shout him down when DC is only trying to explain.
The other problem is by trying to be Mr Fun (no more set bedtime like at your controlling mother's house for example) he's set something where he's now struggling to get quiet after excitement, cue more shouting. That's completely my take on things as I imagine them from what the kids tell me so I may be wrong. I get worried because he seems on edge a lot more than before. At least that's my perception of things.

[adorably2014]

Thank you so much - hardest thing was leaving them yesterday. But it's done. They called me earlier from the new shiny mobile and sounded ok. I have to let go, I know I have, it's just the circumstances make it 10 times worse. I have planned something everyday because otherwise I will go totally insane. I have to look after myself. I was at the GP this morning, I've lost lots of weight it's not good. I have iron tablets because anaemia has returned as well. I had an ok day today. I went out with other people in the afternoon without getting a panic attack which I was really relieved about. Each time I think ok that's it, and I start looking forward, some more drama happens, takes its toll, and the cycle starts again.

The allegations and threats are totally crazy. I was warned to expect something like this and for tables to be turned against me in the early days but I think no one was expecting it to happen now. The thing is his mum was literally sitting in my kitchen chatting over a cup of tea less than a week before my solicitor and I got the correspondence from his sister. His mum had asked if she could come over with her other grandchildren. We seemed to have come to an understanding as even if she sometimes said things about the divorce being a shame it wasn't really said as a reproach toward me, but just regretting the situation, kind of neutral sounding, and I didn't really mind. The chitchat was just that. I think she quite liked it actually. She normally asked if she could come over. Not that much but I suppose in the last month I had seen her more. And I did contact her to tell her of a school event she might be interested to see the dcs in. But there was nothing like harassment. I was totally shocked and spent hours wondering what on earth I might have said that might have offended. I don't really understand his motive. Perhaps he thinks ultimately the children will live with him? Perhaps he thought his mum was a bit too friendly? Perhaps he told them I reported? It has implications on handovers, and mostly on the kids who will see less of her. I got them the mobile because of that too, out of worry. I think he's made a huge mistake because this is not something I will forgive, ever. His mum is likely to suffer quite a lot because of it. If there's a change of mind on their part, they can stuff it. If they want to 'play games' like this, I am completely out. Completely.

The children are known to SS anyway, and they reassured me. But it's there and you never know really, I feel if someone somewhere decides to believe them, who knows? It's really really unsettling to have things so fundamental questioned.

Notabear the children are a bit past the street urchin look age I think usually, though dc2 can sometimes have that sort of day. Last day of term there was no ice cream but 2 badly grazed knees, red cherry juice on the t-shirt, chocolatey mouth, grassy bum, dishevelled look. So much so that this elderly man at a bus stop said 'Slow down darling!' But he was smiling, and it was all quite funny and sweet as it had been a full day. Little did I know. H's version of neglect is not that. It's leaving them alone in the evenings, not meeting their emotional needs, not supervising dangerous activities ... All a lie, I should add.

Funny you mention the nannies Across because he's tried to itemise how much he had to spend on nannies throughout our marriage because of my inadequate and irresponsible parenting. When I think how pushy he was about going away for weekends leaving dc1 with one, it makes me sick. It's so so bonkers. There will probably be one on his holiday but someone else is going to hire her.