Shocked at H's outburst

[Alwaysalone]

Name changed..

Yesterday, as we're driving away for our annual weekend away (our only holiday every year), with DC (aged 1 and 3) in the car, H and I had an argument. It was over something silly (H had strapped in DC without putting her shoes on, and I hadn't packed any spare). I blamed him for it. Then, very placid, extremely kind H (who has never shouted at me in the 7 years we've been married), told me to 'shut the fuck up' or he'd 'punch my face in'. To say I was shocked would be an understatement.. After crying the remaining journey (me, and the kids), he drive us back home and unpacked his bag only, then went up to bed. When I attempted to discuss what he said in the car, he ignored me. When I enquired how we move on from this, he said 'we don't'. When I enquired what he meant, he said 'go figure'..

I slept in the spare room last night. I just don't know what to think. I don't know why he's being like this. He told me once a few years ago that I moan at him too much (which I accept, I have 2 young girls who are a real handful), but however much I nag, how does that justify what he said to me? In front of our children too... My heart is literally broken.. It's like there is no moderation in his behaviour. He's either silent, or he over exaggerates at the smallest thing. He has NEVER threatened violence before. Once, 3 years ago when we had another row (again, over something small), he told me he'd had enough and wanted a divorce. He then apologised to me (rare), and said he didn't mean it. Can someone help me make sense of this? Was it my fault? What should I do? I'm just devastated.

He has a good job, excellent provider, great dad and generally, very good Husband. I just don't know if I can forget what he said to me. He called me melodramatic last night too.. Am I being melodramatic? I know it's ridiculous to think about it, but my mum is seriously ill with a heart condition, and I don't want to add to her problems (she is usually who I turn to in times of problems)..

Please help.

Oh and I'm probably shrill at times. My husband has never threatened to punch me though.

"It's in everyone's interest now to remain calm and grieve what could, with communication, have been a lovely marriage."

... and one WITHOUT SOMEONE LIVING UNDER THE THREAT OF HAVING THEIR FACE PUNCHED IN.

You KEEP forgetting this rather important point.

THIS is why you lot are getting so much stick. You really should be disgusted with yourselves. You really should.

When you can kindly explain under what circumstances ANYONE should have to live with someone who threatens this, and now more than once, then perhaps.. oh wait, no...

THERE IS NO CIRCUMSTANCES WHERE A PERSON SHOULD JUST STFU OR GET THEIR FACE PUNCHED IN.

well said, Hissy.

There isn't one single poster who thinks OP should agree to Hs conditions. H has clearly opted out of the marriage.

I suggest OP posts on the legal site of MN as she will get practical advice there and will hopefully look to a calm, cooperative end to her marriage and the best outcome for her children.

The advice there will be not to engage in victim status or put herself forward as 'a nag'. Solicitors are not marriage guidance counsellors and it's a very expensive consultation if she does.

I would also get some emotional help from Relate.

I agree, Pink, he has clearly opted out. He has left her no choice. It would have been better if he had told her that he wanted out rather than force her to be the one to set the ball rolling but, in the long run, it is better for the whole family that this has come to a head now and hopefully the separation will go smoothly.

Always you can use mediation to work out the terms of separation if he is agreeable and that would reduce the cost of solicitors. Relate will certainly be able to help you with this.

Why has he clearly opted out? I see nothing in what he said to show that he wants anything different from his parents' marriage. He may have opted out of a healthy marriage, but I think he could well want to stay in one on his terms.

I think it's not just the word "nagging" that is interpreted differently by different people; I think "abuse" is another one. Phrases like "victim pedestal" and "deliberately abuse" suggest a different understanding of abuse from mine. Perhaps we are arguing at cross-purposes. I do think abuse is very difficult to understand. Even people who have lived with it and escaped it don't always understand it, or why would they get into or stay in another abusive relationship afterwards?

What I find sad is that in the beginning of this thread OP was keen to save her marriage and throughout the course of the thread has been dissuaded to try.

^ this is an I sentence.

Do not project any hidden meaning into the OP as a result. I find it sad that a group of women have encouraged another out of her marriage through the course of a few days.

Do you Waffle? Do you think it would've been better for her to apologise , accept his lack of remorse and lack of apology and further accept his total inability to communicate along with the possibility of being threatened again?

Nobody is perfect , everyone has their moments and faults but there are 2 things which for me would signal the end of my relationship. One is infidelity and the other is violence (or threats of violence).

In her situation what would you actually do?

Why has he clearly opted out? I see nothing in what he said to show that he wants anything different from his parents' marriage. He may have opted out of a healthy marriage, but I think he could well want to stay in one on his terms.

Well, yes, but his terms include the right to threaten to punch her in the face which she can't really accept can she, so although he hasn't said he wants out in so many words, he has made it impossible for her to take any other course of action.

I see what you mean. Of course, many people do stay under such terms, but I do hope that OP is still feeling strong today and has found help like she was planning to.

Yes, I do Cromer.

Thankfully Waffle this thread isn't about you. It's about a woman who was threatened by her DP and came here for support. It's about what her DP did (completely outwith any influences of MN ) when she tried to talk about what had happened and suggest a way to move forward, and this thread is about what Always can do next to support and protect herself and her DCs (with or without her DP depending on both their choices).

I'm saddened that some MNers seem to inhabit a world where threats of violence are acceptable because accepting the threat makes it more likely you will accept the action.

I find it sad that a group of women have encouraged another out of her marriage through the course of a few days.

I find it DISGUSTING that a few idiots keep insisting that a threat to have a persons face punched in if she doesn't STFU isn't enough for a relationship to come to an end. Added to this the terror willfully inflicted on the tiny children, and NO APOLOGY, even after the THREE DAYS of stonewalling. Not even a the slightest whiff of remorse shown towards the DC.

It fundamentally does not matter if a DW is the biggest bitch on earth, if she is 'shrill', a 'nag' or whatever. She doesn't deserve this threat of violence.

A threat of punching someone's face, anyone's face is is UNACCEPTABLE. If you were to say this in the presence of a police officer, you could and probably WOULD be arrested and charged.

Putting that aside for a second... IF this bloke HAD been contrite, shown remorse and actively sought to resolve this with his DW and their children, that MIGHT have shone a different light on the situation here.

But he hasn't. he's threatened that if she steps out of HIS lines again, HE WILL HIT HER.

i can not express enough my disgust and revulsion for people who think that all of this is irrelevant and that the OP should STFU keep quiet and take more of what he has to offer.

You revolting apologists have come on here, time and time again and supported a man who has threatened violence repeatedly and have potentially undermined a woman in a hideous situation. You keep harping on about the possibility of communication, but you can not communicate with someone who terrifies you.

The ONLY issue that is relevant is that if he is away from her, she is safe. EVEN if she is 'to blame' for causing him to uncontrollably lash out and punch her face in, then if she is elsewhere, SHE IS SAFE, and HE IS SAFE FROM THE TEMPTATION OF BATTERING HER FACE IN, IN FRONT OF THEIR CHILDREN.

Surely that's got to be a good thing? No?

does wearing a short skirt make men rape? No.
Does not wearing a veil protect women in muslim countries from being sexually assaulted? No. Women cover so men don't look. That's utter crap and everyone knows it.

Women STFU and they don't get punched in the face.

Well bugger that for a game of soldiers

CromerSutra Tue 26-Aug-14 14:10:56

Do you Waffle? Do you think it would've been better for her to apologise , accept his lack of remorse and lack of apology and further accept his total inability to communicate along with the possibility of being threatened again?

WaffleWiffle Tue 26-Aug-14 14:23:28

Yes, I do Cromer.

accept lack of remorse
accept lack of apology
accept total inability to communicate
accept possibility of being threatened again

I am genuinely shocked at your advice here Waffle

I do hope posters aren't now going to push the OP to go for sole custody of the children on the grounds that their father is a violent, neglectful and abusive man. Maybe get a restraining order too. I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised, but i really hope that doesn't happen.

As it stands, Grunt, I personally would not advise any of that based on the information on this thread but if cirumstances warrant it then sometimes these things are necessary

Just a reminder: Women's Aid/Refuge freephone 24 hour National Domestic Violence Helpline 0808 2000 247 or email [email protected]

Bloody hell, I find that very shocking Waffle. How about subsequent threats? How should she deal with those?

What Hissy said. And to add- not only can you not communicate with somebody who terrifies you, you also cannot communicate with someone who refuses to communicate with you, or who regards your attempts to communicate as nagging . This man refuses to communicate.

Waffle- if you want to live in a marriage where one partner lives under permanent threat of being punched in front of their small children by the other partner, then I wish you the very best of luck.

The reason why so many of us are arguing is that a surprising number of DV apologists have appeared on this thread to tell the OP why they think it's her fault that her husband threatens to punch her, why he maintains the indefinite right to carry out that threat, why he threatens to divorce her for speaking to another man, why he repeatedly puts a young child with food intolerances at risk, why he rejects all her attempts to communicate, why he is not the slightest bit remorseful.Nobody should have to live like that.

Hissy. That kind of hysteria helps no one.

A little bit of calm is needed now.

The marriage has broken down. Probably irretrievably and even though the OP did want to save her marriage it's clear her H doesn't. I think he was verbally violent to her and subsequently unrepentant because he wants her to force the issue of divorce.

People who grow up as he did often opt out of proactive actions but force the issue as he has done. It's cowardly but he is clearly a damaged individual.

I feel sad for both parties and more so for the children

I have the feeling that some posters on this thread are the type who will ask battered women why they stayed.
While encouraging the OP here to stay.

Absolutely what Hissy said. All the way. I have been utterly sickened at some of the stuff I'm reading.

And Grunt, my ex was a carbon copy of OP's ex, with the sole exception that he admitted to once hitting a DC across the face when they were 4. (He unbelievably tried to say self-defence). I now have all those things you listed. You might want to trivialise the effects of what Op's H is doing, but luckily the law and the courts take a very different view.

We are not pushing. Abuse is an extraordinarily hard thing to 'get', most especially when you are caught in the middle of it. But the damage it causes is huge.

How are you OP?

Always please start a new thread and keep accepting the support you have seen here x