Shocked at H's outburst

[Alwaysalone]

Name changed..

Yesterday, as we're driving away for our annual weekend away (our only holiday every year), with DC (aged 1 and 3) in the car, H and I had an argument. It was over something silly (H had strapped in DC without putting her shoes on, and I hadn't packed any spare). I blamed him for it. Then, very placid, extremely kind H (who has never shouted at me in the 7 years we've been married), told me to 'shut the fuck up' or he'd 'punch my face in'. To say I was shocked would be an understatement.. After crying the remaining journey (me, and the kids), he drive us back home and unpacked his bag only, then went up to bed. When I attempted to discuss what he said in the car, he ignored me. When I enquired how we move on from this, he said 'we don't'. When I enquired what he meant, he said 'go figure'..

I slept in the spare room last night. I just don't know what to think. I don't know why he's being like this. He told me once a few years ago that I moan at him too much (which I accept, I have 2 young girls who are a real handful), but however much I nag, how does that justify what he said to me? In front of our children too... My heart is literally broken.. It's like there is no moderation in his behaviour. He's either silent, or he over exaggerates at the smallest thing. He has NEVER threatened violence before. Once, 3 years ago when we had another row (again, over something small), he told me he'd had enough and wanted a divorce. He then apologised to me (rare), and said he didn't mean it. Can someone help me make sense of this? Was it my fault? What should I do? I'm just devastated.

He has a good job, excellent provider, great dad and generally, very good Husband. I just don't know if I can forget what he said to me. He called me melodramatic last night too.. Am I being melodramatic? I know it's ridiculous to think about it, but my mum is seriously ill with a heart condition, and I don't want to add to her problems (she is usually who I turn to in times of problems)..

Please help.

It is wrong to think its normal/acceptable to be threatened with violence in a marriage. It just is. Sorry about that

Of course it is! Even posters with opposing views have said it isn't ok.

She didn't change her mind. Yes, she knew he wasn't happy about it. She knew that from the start. From her first post on this subject that was clear.

As I said above, both of them wanted to be the SAHP.

There are many couples like this, where one or both parents need to work out of the home when they would rather not. It's a common dynamic that many couples struggle with. It's part of family life. Sacrifices have to be made.

She did say that she was on a good wage, yes. She also said he was on a better wage. All their decisions were taken jointly. She did say that she acknowledged that he worked hard to support his family.

Like millions of other parents, he is doing what is perfectly normal and acceptable to many families. Working hard, having a hobby at weekends, going to the gym, looking after the children, etc. All normal. He does not need a special pat on the back or a medal for doing what millions of other working parents do.

It does not give him the right to keep all his emotions to himself and then threaten to punch her.

Btw Always, if you do get around to reading this, I do think that you should report the threat to the police. Partly because it will be on record should anything else occur but mainly, to validate your feelings of being threatened.

What he did is illegal and the police do take a very strong stance on domestic violence. Don't let others minimise it. Get it reported and then no-one can ever, ever tell you that he had a right to do this to you.

He didn't. No matter what the provocation x

It is wrong to think its normal/acceptable to be threatened with violence in a marriage. It just is. Sorry about that

Of course it is! Even posters with opposing views have said it isn't ok.

No they haven't. They have followed it up with lots of reasons and excuses. That means that it isn't ok without provocation but it is ok if you push him hard enough.

That's what those posters truly believe. Sad isn't it

Wow - its all gone nuts here again.

I don't care what gender the OP is, I don't care what gender the OP's other half is, I don't care if OP only makes points about the kids or if OP criticises partner constantly.

I care that partner has unremorsefully threatened violence and has reserved the right to do it again. No one, nagger or otherwise, deserves that. If OP is the harridan people are claiming here then violence threatened or actual is not the answer is it?

My opinion would be different had partner snapped but apologised and said they couldn't carry on and partner left, or partner was willing to attempt to work to improve the situation. But that's not what's happened. Partner is not even leaving apparently. I mean OP can't be that horrific if after that partner still wants to live there or doesn't want to protect the kids from it.

Daisy - Personally, I would be more than 'very cross' if my DS ever threatened his partner, male or female, under any circumstance.

x-post!

Fairenuff, there is such a thing as nagging and it's not just repeating yourself. It can be continuous negative commenting and criticism about your appearance and your actions.

That's not nagging. I understand what you mean, though and yes I agree that does happen. It's just that it's not called nagging. Maybe that's where the confusion on this thread lies, the definition of the word itself?

I find it very sad that posters can't have opposing views without one or the other 'side' being condemned.

I'll say it again as I said way up thread. No one knows what has exactly gone on other than the OP and her DH.

I don't personally think their relationship is a healthy one and I think they would be better off apart.

I do however take on board other peoples perpectives without trying to trip people, label or name call for them having alternative views.

The OP herself says she nags a lot, is quite shrill and blames him for every little thing. Brightest is right, it's horrible behaviour and can destroy a person.

Sorry to read this Always, I've been following the thread but not yet commented.

I am a terrible nag at times and have suffered depression which has had a big impact on my relationship in those periods. We've had tense moments, some verbal abuse and I know he's been angry and aggressive but he's never made threats of violence to me and never sulked for days in he way your H has. No matter how much nagging and moaning we do, we never deserve this. You also don't deserve to have such closed communication. While friends have judged us for airing our grievances to each other (we always know when the other is pissed off) I believe this is a lot better than bottling it up in the way your H has. Although I wouldn't be surprised if he actually doesn't feel all those things about you all the time, he's just bottled up little issues and torn you apart with them.

I hope there is a way to separate without trouble and get time away from each other, I don't see how this can be resolved unless he is willing to apologise, promise to not do it again and commit to counselling, perhaps even alone as it sounds like his family have caused his emotional difficulties. Counselling for yourself would be helpful but I know childcare isn't easy to arrange. I hope your mum is understanding and you have other friends and family to lean on at this time.

I really don't think people here are doing the OP any favours by putting her on the victim pedestal and making everything the fault of her H.

They both have failings, they are both human, they both love their children. Neither of them has deliberately abused the other throughout their marriage until this horrible unforgivable incident in the car.

Things have gone seriously wrong because lack of communication. Please bear in mind that nagging is a low level form of unwitting verbal abuse but it is also a way of desperately trying to reach someone who won't communicate with you and has put barriers up because of learned behaviour. H can't be 'blamed' for living with two silent parents any more than OP can for getting PND.

The OP does not need to feel like the victim. She needs to accept that her marriage isn't working and is unlikely ever to. From there she can move on to divorcing with a reasonable relationship with her ex H.

Unless you want her to go down the route of withholding children to punish him for abusing her, dragging him into court, him going for custody to spite her etc? It's in everyone's interest now to remain calm and grieve what could, with communication, have been a lovely marriage.

Daisy when would you ever call yourself shrill?

Say you were chatting to your friends and you said, I was very shrill with dh this morning because he'd left clothes on the floor again, or something.

It's not a word women use to describe themselves. It's a word that they are told. People with low self esteem might well believe it.

But the point is, even if she were the world's shrillest woman, he still had no right to threaten to punch her. And to say he would do it again.

And now, he doesn't want to separate. He didn't say that. He wants to stay with her and he wants to be able to threaten her again if he so feels like it.

This man has left her nothing to work with. All she can do, to protect herself, is make sure that she doesn't challenge him if she thinks he is doing something wrong with the children.

That's the next stage that he's looking for. Chilling.

I agree Pink, OP needs to focus on her separation now, there is no going back.

Fairenuff, in your opinion, you don't think that defines nagging but in mine (and perhaps others') it does.

Just because you state your opinion as a fact doesn't make it one.

Fairenuff, you have posted some brilliant advice for the OP. But now you're just arguing with other posters who disagree with you.

The OP used the word "shrill" and you deduce that her husband must have called her that? It could have been her mother, for all you know.

Why are you so angry at other posters expressing an opinion different than your own? Because you know you're "right"? Because you think others' posts are bad advice the OP might follow?

With all due respect, you're now just projecting and arguing about details that are really not going to help the OP.

I'd suggest that living with the threat of violent assault is far more likely to destroy a person than being asked not to feed your child harmful foodstuffs, or to make sure they are adequately clothed and shod before taking them out.

The impact on a child forced to live in a household where violence is threatened is also pretty destructive.

But still, shrill eh- that carries a hefty prison sentence. Oh wait, no it doesn't - because it isn't a crime. Whereas threatening to punch someone in the face is.

People keep talking about what the OP deserves.

Nobody deserves to live in a marriage like this.

He sounds like a terrible communicator who has been bottling up his resentment until he made the unforgivable decision to threaten violence. No-one deserves to be threatened like that. Ever.

She admits that she nags a lot, gets shrill, blames him for everything and puts him down so much that her mother has commented on it. (The OP says she knows she needs to get help but she didn't appear to acknowledge this fact when her mother said that she spoke down to her H). No-one deserves to live with a partner that treats them like that for years.

And most of all the children don't deserve to grow up listening to their mother belittle their father and their father swearing and threatening violence towards their mother. The OP's behaviour is not OK simply because it's not as bad as her H's.

Those of us that are still trying to put forward a point of view which doesn't try to justify violence are doing so - in my case anyway- to reinforce the point that victims of domestic violence do not have to take the blame for their partner's violence or threats of violence.

The OP is entitled to feel like the victim because a crime has been committed against her. No matter how much you choose to believe that it's justified, the threat to punch someone in the face is a crime.

And given that he has said himself that he intends to keep that threat running, and will offer no promise that he won't ever punch her in the face, then perhaps the best thing to do would be to consider involving the police. There are children in the marriage, he already hits the older child. He has already said that he won't agree to move on calmly or communicate about the very serious issues.

No I didn't say her husband called her that. I agree, it might have been her mother. This is what I mean about people not reading posts properly.

I'm not angry at anyone. I am aware though that many people do not know signs of abuse and find it difficult to understand how it can be interpreted that way. I'm trying to explain how the signs, when put together as a big picture, can add up to an abusive relationship.

I have said all along they are very subtle and what are 'great big waving red flags' to one person might be 'minor difficulties that can be overcome to another'.

The only posters I address with a different opinion of those who have either misread posts, or forgotten them and are saying something that actually OP, or myself, have not said.

Does she belittle him though?

One person's 'nagging' is another persons repeatedly having to repeatedly ask your partner not to do things which are actively harmful or unhelpful, because they keep stonewalling you. I don't recall reading anything which indicates that the OP has belittled her husband though.

Sorry, that was in response to this:

The OP used the word "shrill" and you deduce that her husband must have called her that?

I really think the reason you've got such a kicking on this thread is because you admitted to having a home help!

For those who think the op is a terrible nag who has driven him to it, look at the clues:

He is a massive stonewaller. He hasn't spoken to her for three days. Anyone who has been in a relationship with a stonewaller knows how frustrating that is, and how it turns you into a 'nag' because the other person completely fucking ignores you! This guy is an extreme example, who has learnt from his parents who have not spoken to each other in 20 years fgs!

When she's tried to discuss the issue with him, he's told her it's all her fault. He hasn't said he wants to end the marriage, he hasn't tried to reach a common understanding. He just wants her to know its all her fault, and if she behaves in ways he doesn't like in the future, he will continue to threaten her with violence.

For those who think she ruined the holiday: whether or not she was actually afraid he was going to hurt her, who wants to spend their only weekend away being ignored and sulked at? That would be enough to make me go home.

I'm not saying the OP is perfect or blameless, or that she hasn't contributed to the current state of affairs, but the fact is that the type of person that Op's dh is, is the type of person that it is impossible to have a healthy relationship with, because they won't discuss, resolve or compromise.

It doesn't matter whose fault it is any more, OP. I doubt you'll get anywhere with this one.

Does she belittle him though?

Of course all of these things are open to interpretation but I would say that this is belittling.

I think I do put him down (my mum says I do)

When I first read the OP, I felt uneasy about her husband's comments in the car but wasn't sure if this was a one-off incident that could be dealt with so I kept an open mind and read on.

Then I heard about the husband's stonewalling tactics, his previous accusations concerning BIL and his comments about divorce. At this I started to feel more uneasy because as others have pointed out, living with someone who is emotionally unavailable is exhausting, unproductive and results in the available one tying themselves in knots which is what I believe the OP has been doing throughout their marriage.

What really got my spidey senses tingling was the post about how the husband respected the chauvinistic FIL and how FIL thought the OP ought to behave towards her husband. From this I thought, uh-oh. This won't end well.

What was worse was the fact that the FIL had stayed with the MIL for the sake of the children and from this I thought, he is doing exactly the same thing here - going through the motions, emotionally checking out and withdrawing.

Sadly, I've just read the OP's latest major update and it doesn't sound to me as though there is a salvagable marriage here. The husband sounds malevolent, completely detached on the surface whilst underneath seems enraged. People who blow up as he has done, keep a lot below the surface. I know because I'm one of them. I have never threatened to punch anyone but I am the product of parents who could maintain radio silence for months at a time. I was taught to swallow any emotions and then when the lid on them refused to stay on, explode with fury and bile towards people. I know however, that that isn't an appropriate way to behave and achieves nothing. The OP's husband doesn't seem to give a shit in this regard and it sounds as though the OP and children are better off away from him because he won't change. He doesn't want to - He has blamed her for everything.

As for 'nagging', whether the OP does 'nag' or not, her husband shouldn't have threatened her and as above it says much more about him than her that he did.

I do hope that her husband doesn't become abusive if (when) they do split but I'd be manning the emotional and legal sandbags with this. He sounds unpredictable to me.

She may well belittle him. She may well nag him. Her voice may be shrill.

What else, oh yes, she may well take the children to the park. She may well have asked him not to go to football.

What has any of that got to do with a man telling her that he was right to say he would punch her in the face?

Is there one single poster on this thread who thinks that she should agree to his conditions?

That she should stay with him and let him be the judge of whether her voice has raised a notch, or she has spoken too often, or critised him again?

And then what? Then he can hit her because he has warned her now hasn't he? And she has agreed to it.