Shocked at H's outburst

[Alwaysalone]

Name changed..

Yesterday, as we're driving away for our annual weekend away (our only holiday every year), with DC (aged 1 and 3) in the car, H and I had an argument. It was over something silly (H had strapped in DC without putting her shoes on, and I hadn't packed any spare). I blamed him for it. Then, very placid, extremely kind H (who has never shouted at me in the 7 years we've been married), told me to 'shut the fuck up' or he'd 'punch my face in'. To say I was shocked would be an understatement.. After crying the remaining journey (me, and the kids), he drive us back home and unpacked his bag only, then went up to bed. When I attempted to discuss what he said in the car, he ignored me. When I enquired how we move on from this, he said 'we don't'. When I enquired what he meant, he said 'go figure'..

I slept in the spare room last night. I just don't know what to think. I don't know why he's being like this. He told me once a few years ago that I moan at him too much (which I accept, I have 2 young girls who are a real handful), but however much I nag, how does that justify what he said to me? In front of our children too... My heart is literally broken.. It's like there is no moderation in his behaviour. He's either silent, or he over exaggerates at the smallest thing. He has NEVER threatened violence before. Once, 3 years ago when we had another row (again, over something small), he told me he'd had enough and wanted a divorce. He then apologised to me (rare), and said he didn't mean it. Can someone help me make sense of this? Was it my fault? What should I do? I'm just devastated.

He has a good job, excellent provider, great dad and generally, very good Husband. I just don't know if I can forget what he said to me. He called me melodramatic last night too.. Am I being melodramatic? I know it's ridiculous to think about it, but my mum is seriously ill with a heart condition, and I don't want to add to her problems (she is usually who I turn to in times of problems)..

Please help.

Always, I've read the whole thread and am so sorry for the way things have gone for you. I could see how hard you were prepared to work, even share the blame :(
You need to move on from this marriage now, for your own sake and for the sake of your children (lest they grow up thinking it's normal/acceptable to be threatened with violence, just as some of the totally wrong posters on this thread seem to ).
There's a lot of us rooting for you, onwards and upwards. You're strong, you can do this.

Always, I have been thinking about you and am so sorry about how everything has developed. Keep hold of your anger, it will help you keep strong. Having read your whole thread I have to say that some of the responses you have been given are gobsmacking. This site is usually a pretty safe place for women to come without being blamed for threats of violence....A new thread sounds like a good idea. for you I am here rooting too!
Also . You do not sound at all controlling. AT ALL. Xxxx

My husband goes to work 9-8. I have dinner ready for him when he gets home and we eat. As far as the kids, at the weekend he will help with everything. He doesn't do any domestic chores at the weekend, cos really there isn't anything to do. He will do something if I ask him to though.

OP also says he works 9-6 earlier in the thread, so a bit of confusion caused which I sincerely hope is not playing to the audience.

I can understand why there are such diverse POVs here because the OP has been extremely honest throughout and admits to nagging about minor things that can wear people down. She has also had a relatively easy ride in the SAHM stakes with a full time help allowing her free time and time to just play with her kids in the park. At the same time she has taken away the hobby of her H (football) which he is very keen on. He also stated he has to ask her permission to go to the gym. I can see from his side how hard he works (factor in travelling and it is 12 hours a day). I can't see any evidence of controlling EA on his side or on OPs side.

What I can see is two people who (pre children) loved each other and enjoyed being together. The dynamics changed when the first child was born and the OPs PND brought out in her a need to control everything where the children were concerned. A normal reaction to depression btw where obsessiveness to control their children's safety spills over into controlling their environment and the H is part of that environment.

This includes the lactose intolerance issue inertia A very low trick to put about the yoghurt when OP herself says H was unaware the petit filous was dairy! Stupidity does not equal ill intent.

Add to the mix an H who grew up in an environment where nothing was discussed or resolved and feelings of resentment were bottled up and you have the perfect storm for marital breakdown.

The OP herself knows this to be true. She says he should have had the balls to tell her about how her 'behaviour' was affecting him and if this had happened.... "Darling, please don't keep on about the bib! It's so minor and makes me feel like a failure. I'll try to remember, but I'm a bit stressed at work"..... OP would I am sure have taken it on board.

It's a failing on his part not to express his feelings and a failure on her part not to appreciate how demeaning it is to be told what to do all the time and to ask permission to go to the gym. It's not abuse at any level but just failure to communicate.

There is 3 years of anger and resentment on his part and 3 years of confusion and lack of the comfort and reassurance talking and sharing gives you on her part. It's all very sad, but honestly there is very little chance of going back.

Maybe the request for him to leave will shock him into seeing what his inability to communicate effectively has led to. And fwiw stonewalling is a deliberate act whereas H has 'learned' that communicating is something you don't do from his dysfunctional childhood.

These are two people with equal responsibility for making their marriage work. Threatening physical violence is wrong and the fact he is unrepentant shows me he has reached a point where his love and affection for the OP just isn't there any more. He is deeply entrenched in his viewpoint and from the OPs side I just think it's all too late. This is a picture of a failed marriage with neither party a saint or a devil. They were just wrong for each other.

I think what I think about this situation based only on what the OP has said, that's all.
She said her husband works a normal job, but might have wanted to be the SAHP. However they agreed that financially it made sense for her to be home until baby was 2. She saved up so she could pay for her personal effects, and the childrens clothes, which he said he couldnt afford. Then she had pnd, and got pregnant again, so they hired the Home help. Husband has a regular hobby that takes him off for weekends 3 times a year (is that right) she doesnt go because the hobby literally makes her sick, so I'm guessing sailing? I can't find that bit now, so forgive me if I invented it!
He said once years ago she complains too much. Her mother told her she nags her husband sometimes. She worries about this, and says it's only about the children.
OP gives examples of her nagging, citing times when she has stopped her husband giving their dd foods she is allergic to.
She said he never talks to her about anything and either gives her the silent treatment, or explodes over tiny things.

After she argued with him over forgetting the shoes he told her to shut the fuck up or he would punch her face in. After she said she was leaving with younger dd, he said they would all go home.
Then he ignored her for 3 days, except to ask if they needed anything from tesCo.
When she insisted they talk, he told her she should apologise, she doesn't listen, and he can't promise to not threaten her again.
Based on the bald facts, I don't see how anyone could extrapolate that she is a abusive harridan who has driven her poor overworked husband over the edge. Unless one had some kind of investment in presenting the woman as a nagging harpy at all costs.

OP, hope you're okay this morning.

There are some shocking posts here. I honestly thought, in my naivety, that those posters who had been defending OP's DH upthread would be back, in the light of her update last night, to accept that they'd read the situation wrongly.

Someone who issues a horrible threat when under extreme stress, but would never really carry it out, doesn't try to blame the other person afterwards & certainly doesn't reserve the right to do it again! This is the behaviour of someone abusive.

How can anyone possibly still be saying this is the OP's fault? And on the grounds of her "nagging", FFS - a term still being used in an uncritically misogynistic way, apparently to mean asking/telling a man more than once to do or not to do something. So disturbing.

I'm really puzzled, too, by the claims of some posters that the majority who don't want to blame OP for the fact that her DH threatened her with violence in front of their children must have some agenda to break up marriages. Or must have an anti-men bias.

It's precisely because I'm fortunate enough not to have encountered abusive men in my own marriage / family that OP's husband's behaviour seems so obviously beyond the pale. I do know people of both sexes outside my family who have suffered EA, & it also seems trivialising to me to suggest that this can be equated with being "nagged" (ie. reminded not to feed yogurt to a lactose-intolerant child).

Re the football thing, iirc DH was going out at 10am and not returning until midnight, so taking the piss if a regular thing. Apologies if I've misread.

Just because people don't have the same view AlfAlf it doesn't automatically make them wrong.

A very good post by pink.

Re the football thing, iirc DH was going out at 10am and not returning until midnight, so taking the piss if a regular thing.

Maybe that is when their pitch is booked. Would it be better if he was out when the children were being put to bed.

If it starts at 10pm it is only 2 hours after he finishes work at 8pm (if the OP hasn't miss typed it)

Or is it 10am?

Threatening physical violence is wrong and the fact he is unrepentant shows me he has reached a point where his love and affection for the OP just isn't there any more.

Actually, no.
It shows me that he does not see it as wrong and is prepared to carry it out. And to keep threatening.
Even without love and affection, surely it's not something you say to the mother of your children in front of them, particularly.
It takes a certain type of man to threaten to punch a woman and it's not the good kind.

^Because, Waffle, "valid opposing view" is abuser apologetics.

No it's not!^

Oh, ok. Well, that is my understanding from a lot of reading around the subject and from personal experience. I don't know if I expressed it well, though. What I mean is that it is an opinion which plays into an abuser's hands. He will take it and use it as justification for ignoring his own behaviour and making further attacks on his partner's self-worth. As I understand it, that's why joint counselling is not recommended for abusive relationships.

It also kicks the survivor when she's down, when she's already bending over backwards to take on responsibility for fixing the relationship, since he won't.

It is wrong to think its normal/acceptable to be threatened with violence in a marriage. It just is. Sorry about that

Agree with all that Loonvan. I hate the word 'nagging' so utterly sexist and degrading to women. Agreed that the threat was abusive behaviour and emotional abusers always try to blame the other person for their actions. Somehow it is never their fault.

Daisy I'm really surprised that this is the 3rd time I, personally, have explained this to you because I know OP has also told you twice.

They had children. Someone has to care for them. They both wanted to do it. They looked at finances. They, they, (not she, they) realised that if he did it they would struggle financially.

He has a hobby. He goes to his hobby at the weekends. He also goes to the gym every single day. In the morning.

They, they, (not she, they) realised that if he gave up work they would have to make sacrifices and struggle to make ends meet.

So, they, they, they agreed that she would be the one to stay at home. Hopefully, you'll get it this time

It is the anger and vitriol aimed at Always that is the worst thing to read. She came here for support and has always been fully ( more than) willing to take the blame for her part in the situation.
She is a real person having a miserable time.

I have read the whole post and not one person has said it is acceptable or normal to threaten the OP with violence.

As Fairnuff says. The couple made a joint decision on who should be the SAHP best suited to both their needs.

Not controlling behaviour on anyone's part.

IfNotNowThenWhen Tue 26-Aug-14 11:25:57
I think what I think about this situation based only on what the OP has said, that's all.
She said her husband works a normal job, but might have wanted to be the SAHP. However they agreed that financially it made sense for her to be home until baby was 2. She saved up so she could pay for her personal effects, and the childrens clothes, which he said he couldnt afford. Then she had pnd, and got pregnant again, so they hired the Home help. Husband has a regular hobby that takes him off for weekends 3 times a year (is that right) she doesnt go because the hobby literally makes her sick, so I'm guessing sailing? I can't find that bit now, so forgive me if I invented it!
He said once years ago she complains too much. Her mother told her she nags her husband sometimes. She worries about this, and says it's only about the children.
OP gives examples of her nagging, citing times when she has stopped her husband giving their dd foods she is allergic to.
She said he never talks to her about anything and either gives her the silent treatment, or explodes over tiny things.
After she argued with him over forgetting the shoes he told her to shut the fuck up or he would punch her face in. After she said she was leaving with younger dd, he said they would all go home.
Then he ignored her for 3 days, except to ask if they needed anything from tesCo.
When she insisted they talk, he told her she should apologise, she doesn't listen, and he can't promise to not threaten her again.
Based on the bald facts, I don't see how anyone could extrapolate that she is a abusive harridan who has driven her poor overworked husband over the edge. Unless one had some kind of investment in presenting the woman as a nagging harpy at all costs.

Yes, I have also been going on OP's actual posts, not all the other speculation. I think a lot of posters either haven't read her posts properly, or have forgotten what she said.

I have also come to realise that, even if he had actually punched her, just the once, there would sadly still be people on this thread saying that she was partly to blame for it

Always this is the most crucial time for you, you really need support. I am worried that you will read posts giving reasons for his abuse, justifying his actions and start to think they have a point.

They don't. The man was not unhappy for 7 years. As long as he has control he is happy. That's it. That's all you have to remember. Please start a new thread, maybe under a different name, to have some support as you break away from this situation. You will need help to stay strong and also practical advice x

Fwiw, I think he is abusive because he knows no different, because of his parents' dysfunctional relationship.

But he is behaving abusively:

• he feels entitled to criticise her
• he won't accept criticism of his own behaviour

With that inequality built into their relationship, all sorts of unpleasant things can follow and it's not surprising that some of them are already.

Tbh, I think if she had denied him the football as an abusive strategy for restricting his freedom, she'd be a bit more belligerent about what she's done.

Because abuse is first and foremost a set of attitudes. The actions vary. The underlying inequality and entitlement are pretty constant.

If EVERY negative that has been written about the OP is true. If we even try to exclusively see things from her DH's point of view. If we try to be impartial and remember that a marriage is a two way process with flexibility, compromise and fault on both sides. If we even decide to blame the OP for everything that is wrong with the marriage.....

At what point is it OK to reserve the right to threaten violence again, at some point in the future?

If my DS ever, ever, threatened any future partner with physical violence, and then suggested this may happen again, I would be deeply, deeply ashamed.

In a similar manner, if my DD came to me and told me her DP had threatened to punch her lights out and might do it again, I would be frightened, outraged and all sorts of emotions on her behalf.

We all have DC, surely I can't be in the minority in thinking those things?

Also, DH asks me if it's ok to do stuff. I ask him. It's not asking or giving permission, it's being thoughtful and courteous re precious family time. The fact is, neither of us would realistically say no, but it's consideration non the less. Perhaps this is what was meant? I don't know.

On the subject of nagging.

Look at it this way - I repeatedly asked my husband not to feed cheese and onion crisps to our lactose intolerant child. He keeps doing it and I kept nagging asking him not to.

OP only calls it nagging because he does. So many posters have got hung up on this idea that a 'nagger' would drive someone to violence and therefore it's the nagger's fault.

All nagging means is that the other person is ignoring you.

So who is at fault really when a person has to keep repeating themselves?

I have nagged asked repeatedly on this thread what those posters who think she is nagging think she should do when she seems him giving their child something she is intolerant to. Should she nag say something again, or should she say nothing. Not one of those posters could answer me.

Says a lot really.

I've also asked those posters why they think he keeps doing it, even though he knows the child is intolerant. They couldn't answer that one either.

Because both of these actions paint him in a bad light. He is doing something, on purpose, that he knows is bad for his child. He is doing it, on purpose, repeatedly. And when she asks him not to, he calls her a nag.

Think about it.

Fairenuff, the OP changed her mind half way through re the joint agreement to be a SAHM. Whether that's as she wanted to sway the thread or she typed it wrong originally only she knows.

She admits knowing he was not happy with the decision but did nothing about it. She was SE before on a good wage, and given then can afford childcare on one way as they have it now, could have returned to work and eased the burden or gone four days each etc. But she didn't and let the DH take on all the stress.

It's so 1950s, the man is always in the wrong. It's quite clear that they have both made mistakes but it's easier to blame all on the man.

I'd be very cross if DS ever threatened his wife but would be equally cross if my daughter was on her husbands case all the time, wouldn't compromise on his working hours or staff even though he was unhappy or failed to see she was in the wrong sometimes too.

Just popping in to say what a superb, well thought-out and balanced post Pinkrose made earlier.

Fairenuff, there is such a thing as nagging and it's not just repeating yourself. It can be continuous negative commenting and criticism about your appearance and your actions. I've not had a partner do it, but I have had older female relatives nag me. It is absolutely horrible, eats away at your confidence, and I end up completely tuning them out as a coping mechanism.

So if my aunt continued to nag me about food intolerance as I was helping to feed her grandchild, in between commenting about fixing my hair, losing weight, why don't I do x, y and z this way and that way.... I probably would not hear the important bit about the food intolerance because I would be c completely tuning her out for my own sanity.

I'm not suggesting that the OP does this. I don't know what the OP does.

Neither do you.

Posting hypothetical scenarios and demanding other posters reply to them is pointless and doesn't help the OP.

It's so 1950s, the man is always in the wrong. It's quite clear that they have both made mistakes but it's easier to blame all on the man.

But one person refuses to admit they have made any mistakes.

That is why he is getting the blame.