Caught in the act . Mortified.

[SickOfAnts]

Have once again turned to MN as in RL there is only DH to talk to.

The barebones of the story are that DH and I were caught in the act yesterday by our DDIL and the ramifications seem to be totally over the top.

We've had a stressful couple of years. Our relationship was put into question over an event which happened nearly 30 years ago, was a horrid time and still now it is in the background.

Last year our DS1 announced that his girlfriend was pregnant, they're both students in pretty full on studies. We supported them 100% and i gave up work to look after our beautiful GD.

Yesterday we looked after our GD, DS and DDIL are on holiday from uni but we offered to give them a break.
DH came home for lunch and we fawned over DGD for a while and then put her down for her siesta.
One thing led to another (consenting adults in their 50's) and to cut a long story short DDIL arrived (very quietly) and caught us in a compromising position.

Mortification is not the word.

She went into the kitchen and DH spoke to her/apologised.
She was all kinds of embarrassed.
She woke up DGD and went home.

Since then all hell has broken loose. DS can't trust us to look after DGD, if we can't hear DDIL coming in then how could we hear a baby crying?

I could die. I feel dreadful.

DH has pulled rank and has basically told DS to just drop it.

I feel sick.

Thankyou for reading this far. I know this is a total non story but it's very upsetting and embarrassing for me and i needed to share.

Pinkfrocks

When i say environment what i mean is community.

We live in Europe. Our families and a large proportion of our social circle are Jewish.

There is a certain trend in attitude to family, finance, parenting, work, food, food , food !

(This was not entirely the case in the UK)

Or just blame DH. Make comments about DH being a right dirty old man, can't keep his hands off you, would be at it day and night if you let him.

Really, you sound like a fab mum and grandma. Please don't apologise for what has happened.

If anything they ought to be apologising to you for massively, massively overreacting about a totally normal and in no way irresponsible thing you did as adults, in your own home, which millions of parents (and grandparents!) do while having babies in their care.

I can't believe you have apologised to him either.

Are you allowed to poo, or hang washing outside, or answer the door while you are looking after your DGC? Or must you be hovering over the cot 24/7?

seriously ask them about the pooing

This has everything to do with DS and DDIL being irrational about sex and not really thinking about you as people with lives of your own. In fact it's actually very controlling of them.

As much as I appreciate there may be cultural differences- and believe me these exist in the UK as much, for example the south and the working class parts of the north- it doesn't explain your own behaviour and choices that you make yourself.

I think there is some ambiguity in how you see yourself - on the one hand you are the family matriarch, pouring out love and food and sucking up the chaos caused by your son's unplanned child- yet on the other hand you are a sexy woman with spontaneous behaviour.

Maybe you need to be less conformist yourself, less predictable, and demand a greater level of respect instead of almost behaving like something people walk over.

No more apologies.
No more self indulgent posts.
(No more self medicating with a bottle of Gordons!)

To be honest, after last night i think things have blown over.

I really will try to be more self assertive.
I'm not a doormat. Truthfully.
Sometimes all it takes is a look from me and they shut up.

This worm has turned!

OP, may we have a clue as to where in the world you are? Just curious.

How lovely to be called a sexy woman.
Sincerely, thankyou.

I do sound a little split personality don't i ?

I suppose there are many doormouse type men and women enjoy a raunchy sex life. The two are not mutually exclusive.
(NB i'm neither doormouse or raunchy!)

Madamecastafiore
Thanks for your coaching throughout!

Your screamer suggestion had DH in stitches and i do worry that he may use that line one day!

Actually, OP is the awful thing 30 years ago to do with how you met your DH (being set up ... ?) and did you post about it on MN? I have never forgotten that thread.

If that is you, then you have a long history of being manipulated by your family, and I think this might actually be a really excellent time to start not being pushed around by them.

The DS may well come to realise how wrong he is in time. However, I think a parent can speed up the maturation process considerably (and I think it is a lesson a parent really ought to be giving and an effort worth making for the sake of everyone who has to have dealings with our children) by having expectations of being treated with respect, stating exactly what they are doing wrong when they fall short of that, and exactly how they need to adjust to fit your perfectly valid and reasonable expectations.

Maybe your DS needs to be reminded that if he wants to be accorded the privileges associated with adulthood (having sex and producing babies being some of the principal ones, but having his views taken seriously are others) then he needs to start behaving like an adult by respecting his parents, and especially, respecting his mother. Yes, we give and we give, as much as we can and then some, but the point where we say 'Where is the appreciation and the respect?' is the point where we can see the yawning gap where those very necessary qualities should be and we realise we are being taken for granted, and worse, which is what has happened here when your DS told you he was disappointed by your behaviour and even moreso when he accepted your apology.

Gratitude goes beyond the occasional 'thanks Mum'. It means understanding the amount of support from parents that is required to get a DC where they are and the respect for them as parents that comes from that. I don't think your DS understands what it has taken to get him where he is right now, or what it takes to keep him and his partner where they are, poised to take advantage of everything you and your DH have made possible. I think that not expecting real gratitude and appreciation - and most importantly the sort of humility that go with - just enables the extended childhood and enormous sense of entitlement your DS and his partner seem to be enjoying. When I say humility what I mean is a sense of perspective, and most of all a sense of respect.

You post about the struggle of adapting to motherhood. It's a huge struggle. You lose so much of yourself in the process (and I am not even talking about 'martyrdom' here) as you go from being centre stage in your own life to a bit player in the lives of small children. It is exhausting physically and emotionally and it transforms you in a fundamental way. You speak of having some sort of facade of middle class respectability and an identity that doesn't say a lot about the real you. That's like the whole motherhood thing in many ways the entire spectrum of You is not visible, just as your entire being and personality and all that has gone into making you You gets subsumed into the mother role that is secondary to others' lives. I suspect this episode has been really jarring because here you are, being your own private, personal self not 'Mum', not 'Middle Class/Women's Institute' -- and suddenly it is a matter of priggish and completely unwarranted disapproval on one hand and the font of jokes that will never go away on the other. In other words, your role as mother and your facade have converged and it is looking very much as if you are going to be overwhelmed by both of them.

There's little i can do to change the mindset of those around me.
As a minority of one, my views are taken on board and then swiftly ignored.

I think it is time to retract any apologies you have made.
I think you need to say 'You know what, DS, on reflection, I think what you really need is a swift boot up the rear end. How dare you speak to me like that.'

Please consider the possibility that this may be what they call a 'teaching moment' for your family.

You don't have to take any old crap they want to heap on you.

Great post, mathanxiety, so clear.

FairPhyllis

Yes, that's me.
Bless you for remembering.

We've come a long way since then.

The boys were never told.
More to save DH and other's feelings than mine.

I think i have gained some well deserved respect from the few involved. I really have handled everything very well.

Life goes on.

mathanxiety

You're so right in alot of what you say.

I rarely find it necessary to discipline my sons.
They're no angels but they're no demons either.

I am respected on the whole, infact i command respect.

I do feel we've let ourselves down.
A situation of our making has now caused much embarrassment to our DDIL.
My son is protecting his wife, as is right.

Our DDIL is a very discrete girl and is understandably upset.

Rightly or wrongly we have both apologised and it is no longer up for discussion.

I have cried over this.
It is all consuming, however pathetic that may sound.

This is my last post on this thread as I think OP sounds like she's in a good place about it now and I think you sound like a very lovely person OP.

But finally, I still don't think this is the right issue over which to have a learning moment. It's too awkward, too recent and too complex (given all the co-existing issues around first baby, young parents, ds feeling protective of his partner and the fact that seeing parents/parents-in-law having sex is a major family taboo)

If ds was rude about e.g. the way OP feeds the baby or took all the care for granted then that's a better time to address issues of lack of respect, maturity of ds.

I think OP's husband needs not to get all alpha male about this and the family move on. Give ds a break.

By the way OP, I'm sure you haven't forgotten this from raising your boys but you might want to avoid being on your knees too much - as an older mother, a crawling dd has virtually crippled me....

Omg if dh and I had not dtd whilst ds napped we wouldn't have had a sex life! Night time was to fraught with fear of waking him!

Lovely post mathanxiety.

It is of course not about gratitude but about respect .OP when your ds came to you last year , you didn't judge rather you supported , you could have ranted and raved but you didn't . He should afford you the same respect , how would DDIL feel if you had walked in on them , would he like her to feel the way that he is making you feel ? You are his mother and he should respect you the person not just the caregiver.

PS I also have three boys and a middle class respectable persona, the real me is closely guarded , I would feel exactly as you do , as if something about me had been exposed ( quite literally ) .as if someone else had been afforded a view into my private world.Difficult to explain but I do understand I think .

Overreaction driven by ick factor. I'm sure they'll get over it soon enough when they twig how expensive paid childcare is

Ps good for you for working through your relationship difficulties and still having an active sex life - sex = happy= better care for kids. I am 100% certain my mum has six with her boyfriend while caring for DS and I couldn't give two hoots. She's brought up 3 kids and knows what's safe and what isn't as I'm sure you do

Sex I meant... Not six.. And I meant when he's asleep obviously (!)

I remember your older thread as well, although i wasn't 100% sure. I have to say I'm glad you and your OH seem to be strong going now.
Remember you are the matriarch and you should command respect, not disappointed comments by one of your DS's. But I understand why you want to let it settle.

If it ever comes up again, you can ask him if it's ok to sneak in their home at any time of the day.

Having been brought up in a country where there was an open door policy as well as indulgence of young people (in particular boys) and parental provision until full independence, I appreciate were you come from Sickof ants. However, children and adult alike were expected to show full respect for their elder; there were 'codes' of appropriate behaviour (like a knock on the door, or announce your self)... You seem a lovely and altruistic person and I would have expected your son or DIL or both to apologise to you and not the other way round. After all your DIL has broken the code of discretion at least twice (pregnancy and failed to announce herself). I do find your son's disappointment in you hilarious albeit very childish. I think both your Ds and DIL have to learn about boundaries and respect soon, so to instill such values in their Dd. :)

Where do you draw the line on gratitude?
Good question.

Should we be thanked for the milk we provided as babies? For the mashed banana we weaned them on? For the thousands of nappies we changed? For the bedtime stories? For their first bike, scooter, paddling pool?
Of course not, it was/is our responsibility

My point being, at which point do we stop providing?
Emotionally, I don't think we will ever stop. Financially?!!!The one million dollar question.

I am really glad to hear you and your DH are together still. I had often wondered what happened to you and the relationship. But I remember from that thread that it sounded as though you had been quite a passive figure in your family and they were shocked by you being so angry. It was that same passivity I recognised here.

All I'm saying is, don't be a doormat. Your life and your feelings are important too. Your DS has been very silly in overreacting in the way he has, and he needs to recognise that he can't impose irrational guilt or these sorts of demands on you. plus isn't sex a mitzvah anyway?!

I can imagine DDIL didn't announce herself as she wouldn't imagine the horrors she would encounter!

I also have always strolled into MIL's without a care in the world.
I mean what tittivating occupation could she be exercising other than pastry making, chicken plucking or sudoku?

That's the root of all this.
The indignation at ones parents/PIL having a private life.

This of course is teamed with the abominable scene she witnessed.
That is what upsets me.

FairPhyllis

Yes indeed , sex is a mitzvah!
A commandment, a duty!

(Though idealy for procreation and quite frankly we're done with all that!)

I meant "tittilating" and not "tittivating".
(My English is underused and i may have consumed an alcholic beverage)