Is my marriage in crisis?

[ChaChaChaChanges]

I am married, we have children together, and I am currently in turmoil. I suspect I am being ridiculous.

DH and I have been together for almost ten years. We met when I was married to someone else (he was single at the time). We had an affair, and I left my first husband for now DH.

I fell unexpectedly pregnant 7 years ago. There was never any question that we would keep our baby. However, I developed suicidal PND, which I didn't seek help for. (DH and I both thought that everyone gets the baby blues, and DH in particular was very keen not to cause worry for our families by seeking help or telling anyone about it.)

After 18 months my PND improved and we conceived our second DC (planned). Sadly, I again got suicidal PND. This time I insisted on seeking help, and was on ADs for 2 years. I came off the ADs in Summer 2012. I wonder if I am getting depressed again.

Since DC2 was born, I have felt that I love DH but am no longer in love with DH. I have had to make myself have sex with DH, and have not enjoyed it 'once I was into it'. I haven't hated it either, but I got no pleasure from it. I would prefer not to.

I thought that that was enough. That we could effectively parent together, live together, make a life together as best friends. However, over time I have found that we have less and less in common, and some of the things he does are making me very resentful (leaving the bulk of housework to me despite us both working FT; putting his career ahead of mine; various bodily things like scratching himself and picking his nose in front of me that turn my stomach; he's a wind up merchant, generally at my expense; even his crappy jokes irritate me now).

To give him credit where it's due, he is at heart a kind, decent man. He loves me very much (he says). He tries to make me happy. He takes on equal child-caring responsibilities at the weekend (I do the vast majority during the week because he's at work; I get up at 4 each morning to get work done before the children wake because I simply can't get all my work done in core hours whereas he can work as late as he wants), he does the garden, he loves our children very much, he lets me have a bath each weekend evening while he does bedtime, he cooks the dinner most evenings when he's home (sometimes he has dinner with clients or colleagues).

I recently met someone. He has no interest in me whatsoever - the feelings are entirely on my side (I have a thread in Chat about it if anyone wants to look). However, it has thrown the issues in my marriage into sharp relief.

I don't know what to do. Do I muddle on with DH, keeping the family together? It would be largely for his benefit and for the children. Do I push again for marriage counselling (which DH has in the past refused)? Do I tell him I'm unhappy?

Any advice would be most appreciated.

I think you have made a good start - well done.
But now is the time to see if he sticks to it eg. set yourself a diary reminder for a fortnight, one month. Is he still doing what he promised?

He's waiting until Monday because he had a client breakfast this morning and a client meeting first thing tomorrow morning. Both were too close to rearrange at short notice.

I think what happens at the weekend will be interesting.

But it feels more fundamentally important than that

That is because it is fundamentally more important than that. It is about how he values and sees you; as compared to himself - and his values generally. It is actually really easy for him to sit there and say, okay, I will do more than you - because that is just words over dinner. You told him, no, that is not fair, it is about equality.

What if you said, okay, I have been doing a sh*t lot more than you for almost ten years, which expanded even more seven years ago, which means that you need to do more than me for at least the next seven years - that would still be equality, wouldn't it? It needs to balance out over at least fourteen years as you have been bearing the brunt for seven years, since dc1 was born. Equality would be to say, let's see how your mental health is after that - and then you can pass judgement on mine.

So, there is a question, why did you not say that to him? Why do you not put him through what he has put you through for the last seven years of expecting more and more and more. I would hazard a guess that it is because you fundamentally would not treat a person like that, and even less so, a person you are supposed to love.

Yet he has done it to you. And he does not really accept that is what he has done, he is dressing it up as your mental health issue (like you are kind of failing by not being able to cope with this all) That is why it is fundamentally more important than who does what now and how it is explained. (And that is why it will be quite hard to fix in the long term, but you are doing the right thing by giving him/your marriage a chance)

Money - dear God, it is bingo here - I ran an overdraft paying for stuff and he put money in his savings - do you at least share the mortgage?? i.e. the overpayments will benefit you in terms of equity if you split? YY to a spreadsheet of expenses and a 50/50 split of costs - see what he says to that. You should not be asking him for money every month when you are jointly running a house. Costs can be covered directly out of his account if he doesn't want a joint one.

I agree with the previous posters, keep posting, but also keep your own journal. Strength to you. I'm sorry this post turned into a bit of a rant.

I'm doing weekday evenings.

He's taking complete responsibility for finances (am slightly about that), bins and recycling, the garden, his family's cards and presents, the children's birthdays.

I'm retaining responsibility for laundry, liaising and paying our cleaner and nanny, the cars, my family's cards and presents, the children's Christmas presents. I'm also taking back cooking, because I love it.

That last post was to UnexpectedAutumn, BTW.

Mistlethrush, what do you think might happen this weekend? Forewarned is forearmed...,

I'm just wondering how much he's going to 'do' off his own bat.

I don't see 'shopping' on your list - is that a joint responsibility? Speaking personally, we find as a couple it is much more time efficient if only one of us goes shopping and the other does something else (unless we're heading for a coffee first and more leisurely browse) - perhaps walk the dog or sort something else out in the house.

I'm pleased that you've 'taken back' cooking if you enjoy doing that.

Don't let him financially abuse you as well.
That is just not how it should be.
Finances are a shared thing.
You should both know exactly what is going where and exactly what each of you has to spend on your own luxury items or activities.

Your list should also be a dynamic list.
Things could change. You may want to watch a 30 minute TV programme so he will have to cook etc...

Shopping is his - my bad.

If shopping is 'his', when is it going to get done and do you need to supply a list and if you do, please make sure the list is available somewhere obvious and don't remind him about the need to do the shopping. If he suggests a 'disney dad' scenario, go along with it - its not your responsibility to make sure that his side of the bargain gets done, he's got to work out when he can fit it in and plan accordingly.

ChaCha your post at Thu 24-Jul-14 08:29:46 shows enormous clarity in your situation, the changes you desire and what your H needs to do in order to reclaim his place as a true partner in your eyes. I think it is a good idea to keep posting here as well, as other people's views and experiences add validity to your voice and opinions.

I agree with a previous poster and your sentiments that he does not see you as an equal, which means that in practice the marriage does not operate on an equal footing as a partnership. He views all of this as "the little woman's problem that I'm helping her with", which is both denigrating and devaluing to you. The much deeper issue is a) whether he is willing to have his views on equality within the marriage challenged, and b) whether he is willing to reconsider, reevaluate and change these views. I have a feeling that the house work (and other things that you have only mentioned at this point) is simply a symptom of his much deeper held values of women and their place in a marriage. I further suspect that this is the crux of why you have fallen out of love and respect for him.

In his mind, the problem is that I get angry and stressed, and therefore him taking on more chores to "help" is the solution to "my" problem.

Whereas I think the problem is that he doesn't pull his weight.

The outcome is the same - I get stressed and angry - and so is the solution - he does more. So perhaps it's just semantics.

But it feels more fundamentally important than that.

It is fundamentally important and it isn't just semantics. There is a big difference between a scenario where you are non-specifically angry and stressed and take it out on him, and a scenario where you are angry and stressed because of him. His take on the situation is formulated so that he isn't part of the problem, and therefore doesn't need to be part of the solution if he chooses not to.

I get this too. My DH will say "You are so resentful." I used to feel guilty about resenting him, then I realised that it is perfectly reasonable to be resentful of someone who doesn't care if they make your life more difficult as long as they can continue to pursue their own agenda. I am allowed to be resentful. And so are you.

I would be wary of ways in which your DH might (consciously or unconsciously) sabotage your new arrangements. You already have a precedent for him opting out of mornings due to work commitments - fair enough that he couldn't change this week's appointments at short notice, but be careful that he doesn't start telling you that he can't do this or that day due to meetings. If he has home commitments in the morning he shouldn't be making work appointments for mornings. End of.

Watch out for the passive-aggressive sabotage, along the lines of "You asked me to do this and now you're being unreasonable if you criticise how I do it, there's just no pleasing you etc". For example, your DH doing the shopping but not sticking to the agreed budget, him spending inordinate amounts of time "sorting out the garden" because "it's one of the jobs you asked me to do" so that he "unfortunately" has no time to contribute to other domestic tasks or spend time withe the DCs. The aim of such tactics is to make you more stressed by the way he does "his" chores than when you do them yourself, so that you decide that it is easier to do them yourself.

Sorry to be so cynical, but I have some experience of this and my concern is there will be a honeymoon period where the leopard seems to be changing his spots, followed by subtle introduction of various tactics designed to return things to the previous status quo.

Watch out for the passive-aggressive sabotage, along the lines of "You asked me to do this and now you're being unreasonable if you criticise how I do it, there's just no pleasing you etc"

This is one of my main concerns, TBH, and one of my main reasons for wanting to be able to sense check events as they occur with all of you.

He has already laid foundations for this, with his comments that he might do things differently to me (fine) or to a different standard (not fine). I will probably need help working out when I'm being unreasonable and when he is.

MrBuster - are you intending to stay in your marriage?

It sounds like it went as well as it could have.

Perhaps you could go out occasionally with your friends while he looks after the kids or even if you could afford it away for a night to recharge the batteries.

Might be expected too much for him to raise it so I would give ( a not too gentle) nudge!

Yes, I was thinking that about the garden, it is a fab place to disappear for hours on end - if you have time. And he will have time, because you will be looking after dc and the house.

I really, really don't want to be negative because I want this to work better for you; but you have got laundry (all the washing and ironing and putting away for a family of four, maybe some ironing done by cleaner or ironing service?); the cleaner (i.e. the house - who tidies up so the cleaner can clean? You; dc and the nanny, all of you?); the nanny ( therefore all the responsibility for the childcare running smoothly); cooking ( all the responsibility for ensuring nutritious meals and five fruit and veg a day etc); the cars (all the responsibility for transport issues) - but no responsibility for the money to budget and pay for this.

He has got the responsibility for keeping the house rubbish free (once things are already binned), the garden weed free (so he is out of the house), doing the shopping (out of the house) and keeping the family solvent and allocating your budget (although you are working FT and earning too).

The real gain is the morning childcare so you can leave at 6.15. Be very careful he sticks to that. Because otherwise, one might easily suggest you could put your own rubbish out, hire a gardener, do your shopping online and look after your own finances, and not be much worse off time wise.

Xpost, sorry.

I've just found an email I sent him in July 2012.

It sets out very clearly

• how unbalanced our household was (is)
• how unhappy and angry that made me, and why
• what I needed to change.

He made some suggestions for me in return (find a babysitter so we could go out once a fortnight, let our nanny do the boys' washing, stop the cat sleeping on our bed).

And, you know what? I did all of mine. He did his for three weeks and then stopped.

Fuck it, I'm really angry again.

BTW, we actually have three children - boys aged 6, 4 and 2 - but I changed that detail to make me less identifiable. Now I don't care anymore if anyone recognises me.

I will probably need help working out when I'm being unreasonable and when he is.

I think a reasonable rule of thumb would be whether the outcome from "his way" is on par with the outcome from "your way". So, if he does the shopping and buys everything you need and comes in on budget but buys different brands or versions of things to what you would usually, that's OK. But is he overspends or only buys the things he thinks you need, that's not OK.

Tbh this is one reason I have opted to ask my DH to be responsible for tasks that only impact on him if they aren't done. Previously when he was supposed to be responsible for other tasks, I found myself devoting far to head-space to worrying about whether he would do something properly or whether I would need to pick up the pieces, re-do things etc. I'm aware that might sound ridiculously controlling, but we're talking fairly basic stuff like paying bills on time, washing dishes so that they are actually clean enough to use.

MrBuster - are you intending to stay in your marriage?

Good question. A year ago I would have said "Yes" as a knee-jerk response. Now, after considering the potential consequences of staying vs separating, I have reached the conclusion that at the moment, the potential negatives for the DCs of separating outweigh the potential positives, so have stayed put. This is a decision that is open to review if circumstances change.

Time has done a lot in terms of making the prospect of separation less scary. I recently plucked up the courage to see a solicitor to inform myself about how finances etc might look after a split. I was petrified before I went, but much calmer and strangely empowered afterwards, even though I don't intend to take things further atm. I think I felt better because I found that I could see a solicitor, iyswim - it proved after all to be a manageable step to take as a responsible adult arming myself with information.

Hold him to the points now; no benefit in dwelling on the past especially long ago and stay anonymous!

Given you run his bath now perhaps he can do the same for you in the evenings he is back from work whilst he cooks!

I've just found an email I sent him in July 2012.

It sets out very clearly
- how unbalanced our household was (is)
- how unhappy and angry that made me, and why
- what I needed to change.

I'm not surprised. My DH repeatedly complains that I haven't told him why I am resentful or what I want him to do to improve things. I have told him. Repeatedly and clearly. He just doesn't like what I tell him. So to him it's as if I've never said anything.

This is a form of gaslighting. You drive yourself nuts thinking that you must not have expressed yourself clearly enough or he would have understood you properly and therefore wanted to change/maintain changes. But odds on you expressed yourself perfectly adequately in 2012. He just wasn't interested in really hearing you. I think your fears that the same will happen again this time are well founded.

Jesus fucking Christ you're husband is a lazy fuck who needs a massive slap. And the comment about you being a bad parent? Considering he is the one doing fuck all (the fact you said that he 'lets you' have a bath at the weekends made me retch) so gets to play around with the kids...

Well that comment would be grounds for divorce right there!!!

It comes across like you are a massive pushover who will accept his lame LAME excuses (he doesn't know how to use the dryer? Are you fucking kidding me?) and give him an easy life.

You need to book some time off work, take the kids to your parents and stay there for a week. Give yourself a well earned break. Have some time to catch up on sleep.

Then go back and tell him you are considering a divorce and you aren't kidding. Marriages agree 50/50 but yours is currently 98/2. Write a list in advance of all the stuff that you do and opposite write what he does. E.g. "me: get the kids ready for school, change dirty sheets etc etc. You: sleep until x time then have a shower"

He sounds like a hangover of the 1950's where men considered themselves father of the fucking year because they martyred themselves by putting the kids to bed once a week.

God your husband is such a prick.