Is my marriage in crisis?

[ChaChaChaChanges]

I am married, we have children together, and I am currently in turmoil. I suspect I am being ridiculous.

DH and I have been together for almost ten years. We met when I was married to someone else (he was single at the time). We had an affair, and I left my first husband for now DH.

I fell unexpectedly pregnant 7 years ago. There was never any question that we would keep our baby. However, I developed suicidal PND, which I didn't seek help for. (DH and I both thought that everyone gets the baby blues, and DH in particular was very keen not to cause worry for our families by seeking help or telling anyone about it.)

After 18 months my PND improved and we conceived our second DC (planned). Sadly, I again got suicidal PND. This time I insisted on seeking help, and was on ADs for 2 years. I came off the ADs in Summer 2012. I wonder if I am getting depressed again.

Since DC2 was born, I have felt that I love DH but am no longer in love with DH. I have had to make myself have sex with DH, and have not enjoyed it 'once I was into it'. I haven't hated it either, but I got no pleasure from it. I would prefer not to.

I thought that that was enough. That we could effectively parent together, live together, make a life together as best friends. However, over time I have found that we have less and less in common, and some of the things he does are making me very resentful (leaving the bulk of housework to me despite us both working FT; putting his career ahead of mine; various bodily things like scratching himself and picking his nose in front of me that turn my stomach; he's a wind up merchant, generally at my expense; even his crappy jokes irritate me now).

To give him credit where it's due, he is at heart a kind, decent man. He loves me very much (he says). He tries to make me happy. He takes on equal child-caring responsibilities at the weekend (I do the vast majority during the week because he's at work; I get up at 4 each morning to get work done before the children wake because I simply can't get all my work done in core hours whereas he can work as late as he wants), he does the garden, he loves our children very much, he lets me have a bath each weekend evening while he does bedtime, he cooks the dinner most evenings when he's home (sometimes he has dinner with clients or colleagues).

I recently met someone. He has no interest in me whatsoever - the feelings are entirely on my side (I have a thread in Chat about it if anyone wants to look). However, it has thrown the issues in my marriage into sharp relief.

I don't know what to do. Do I muddle on with DH, keeping the family together? It would be largely for his benefit and for the children. Do I push again for marriage counselling (which DH has in the past refused)? Do I tell him I'm unhappy?

Any advice would be most appreciated.

He said I have been very stressed and angry lately (true; wonder why?) and that if he still thinks I'm not happy by the end of September then he wants me to find a counsellor for me to talk to.

And there you have it, his "out". Very clever of him (assuming it was deliberate).

Basically, if you are still angry and stressed by the deadline then it is down to you to fix it and not for him and you together to find a solution. If you are angry that he is not in fact pulling his weight, you need counselling. If you are stressed that the 4am starts have started to creep back in, you need counselling.

Be careful. He is clever, he is manipulative and I sense that this is not over yet.

I am pleased that he appears to have taken it on board (although why Monday? Why not tomorrow? Watch out for "I cant do tomorrow morning because......") but dont breathe out just yet.

As I said above, been there, done that, lost the career and the marbles.

Thinking of you

ChaCha I'm pleased that you feel it went well, and that your DH has agreed to make some changes. Losing the 4am starts should mean you are less sleep-deprived, which should in itself make a big difference to your mood.

This comment though:

if he still thinks I'm not happy by the end of September then he wants me to find a counsellor for me to talk to.

Nope - he doesn't get to decide if you're happy enough by a certain date. You get to decide (by a September deadline if you like) whether he's made big enough changes to get things back on track. The implication of his comment is that if you're not happy, it's your problem, nothing to do with anything he may be doing or not doing.

The reason he didn't was because it suited him not to. He valued his comfort more than the OP's wellbeing. That is the longer term issue to get over, even if things improve from now on the chore front (fingers crossed!)

X-posted with Bogeyface

if he still thinks I'm not happy by the end of September

Another thought, why does he get to decide if you are not happy? YOU know your own mind, YOU know if you are not happy and YOU know the reasons why if you are in fact unhappy. Smacks of further attempts to manipulate and control.

I am sorry love but I think you've been had. :(

My response was to whatdoesittake.

Xposted back atcha MrBuster!

Haven't RTFT, sorry, it's v long!

I am a flitter. I have historically always got bored and made some very awful choices. I have MH issues which don't help.

I am in a fantastic marriage now. A lot of the reason why is that I accept that there will be days - as amazing as my lovely DH is - that I take him for granted or that I am having an episode. What keeps me on an even keel is the realisation that I will feel like that no matter who I am with - and I would rather feel like that sometimes with my lovely DH and make it work despite my craziness than feel like that with anyone else.

Sorry if that doesn't make any sense. But my point is that I suspect you are always going to get bored eventually, even if you move on to someone else. Wouldn't you rather be bored with DH and at least trying to work on that than embark on another relationship that you will eventually get to this point in anyway?

Just seen some of the more recent replies.

Clearly I SHOULD have RTFT. Ignore my previous post please!

Well done for having that really difficult conversation. That must have taken alot of courage

This is an important question though:
"Why does he get to decide if you are not happy?"

OP, I have read all your updates, as well as the full thread. I am glad that your H agreed to the points that you set out. I am dismayed that he is not taking on any blame for the 'parentilising' of you that he has done, and therefore the all the extra work that you have had to do because of this. He does not yet realise how much he is to blame for your 'stress and anger'. If he is not aware of it, eventually I think you should set him right on this count as well.

Over the coming weeks please make sure that you assess commitment to taking over the responsibilities that you outlined. The responsibilities should not be that hard for him to do, and if he has trouble with them, I would question whether he is a real adult who can step up and be a real partner to you, or whether he is just a little boy who needs his 'mommy' to look after him. If you have not decided now, have a look at what your next steps will need to be if he a) does step up - can he therefore do even more; or b) does not step up, and what you will do as a consequence.

Wishing you all the best.

assess his commitment that should be

Good for you ChaCha And good luck with keeping strong & calm. I hope the extra sleep helps!

Thank you for all your support and advice. I truly appreciate it.

You are absolutely right that he does not acknowledge his role here - neither in terms of allowing the inequality to develop and persist, nor in terms of his not noticing (or not caring) that it may be a source of stress and frustration for me. In fact, I would say there is still an unhealthy dose of "helping the little woman out" in his attitude, and an even unhealthier dose of "I'm the superior being who can cope with everything you load on to me whereas you can't". At one stage of the conversation he tried to take on considerably more than half the chores - which makes me think he still doesn't understand the key point that we are supposed to be a partnership of equals.

If I'm being charitable, I would point out that there has been lots of background "noise" - I have booked onto a parenting class, I have talked about counselling and ADs - and he has undoubtedly been focused on the notion of wife-as-the-issue (as have I). And no-one likes to acknowledge their own failings. But I agree that it's not good enough.

I'm watching this issue closely. It manifests elsewhere in our relationship. Finances would be a good example. I spent many months worrying about money (considerably more than half our household expenses come out of my account for historic reasons) and then found out he'd been overpaying the mortgage each month. Which makes sense on one level but not when the other person is incurring monthly overdraft charges and expenses and you haven't bothered to tell the other person you have made the decision to overpay.

I am also concerned that he will need nagging, which again is missing the point of him taking responsibility (as opposed to passively doing tasks assigned to him). I told him last night that I need to clear some of the trivia to get headspace; he said he doesn't really understand the concept of headspace. Perhaps it's because he has a brain the size of a planet . More likely he's just not bothered or cared before.

He asked for a list. I will give him one list once (I'd already made one to work out how much I'm doing currently compared to him, and how the tasks could be reassigned). After that he's in his own.

One thing we didn't discuss last night - because he was so amenable - was what will happen if he doesn't shape up. I don't know whether he realises that this issue is relationship threatening. Is it worth making that clear now, or would doing so be inflammatory in what is currently a positive mindset?

I'm still thinking about counselling for me. But not to talk about my anger as DH would like (or rather only indirectly) but about how I got myself into this situation in the first place.

I'm still not sure our relationship is salvageable. I still feel mostly indifferent when I look at him.

Your life sounds absolutely exhausting.

I have read it asking myself, if I fell in love with someone, respected them, would I in a million years let them get up at 4am, wake me, run my bath, let them get upset because basic chores weren't done and try to argue that my partner was just being picky wanting them done (they are essential, of course you don't want to live in chaos. I get so stressed when there's a huge list of things needing doing)? I wouldn't dream of it. That isn't loving. He's being a child in the relationship. Do you want another child? Or a partner?

He can't manage to remember to put bins out, get a wash on? Is he 13? He isn't a morning person? Tough shit, he's a father!

I do think buying in more help would be good in some ways, but that isn't going to help the resentment, because then it will be you and the paid help running the house and he'll just carry on having a lovely life.

I'm going to keep posting here, if that's OK with you all - both to get your views and as a record of what's happening.

Yes you must make it clear what the consequences are. It silk help him to understand that you view this as his failing not your own. It may set things back but it is essential. Otherwise you only have his idea of you getting counseling if things don't work out and he has no come back at all. Once again the onus is on you to change.

Yes, do keep posting.

I have a heavy sleeper of a DH who has struggled to help with DS when he was little and waking at nights. Normally it was easier for me to sort things out than try to wake him (getting DS more worked up and less easy to resettle). However, he did take his share of early mornings, even though he struggled to emerge from sleep and get up as quickly as I can.

He also took the late shift when DS was suffering with colic - I went to bed at 9pm and he woke me up at about 1am so that he could go to bed (and get up for work the following morning) whilst I dealt with the screaming. I was on maternity leave at this stage.

The bills issue sounds awful for you and is not an efficient way of utilising the family money.

I hate having to ask him for money each month.

Clearly that needs to change then.

Can you work out what the monthly outgoings are to keep the house going - mortgage, shopping, bills, council tax etc etc, then pro-rata it based upon your salaries and each pay that amount into an account for the bills? (I would add a 'comfort' cushion so that the account doesn't run short). Any shortfall in that account is not 'your fault' - it is a joint reasponsibility and both partners are responsible for making sure that there's enough money available to keep the household running efficiently.

In his mind, the problem is that I get angry and stressed, and therefore him taking on more chores to "help" is the solution to "my" problem.

Whereas I think the problem is that he doesn't pull his weight.

The outcome is the same - I get stressed and angry - and so is the solution - he does more. So perhaps it's just semantics.

But it feels more fundamentally important than that.

It is more of an issue - particularly at the moment as he's been sitting back and seeing you work yourself to the bone and get stressed and what has he done about it - absolutely nothing - or blamed you. A reasonable, loving partner would say 'what can I do to make things better for ChaCha - I know, I'll put the bins out, start sorting the washing regularly, and offer to look after the children first thing so that she doesn't have to get up at 4am to manage to do everything'.

In his mind, the problem is that I get angry and stressed, and therefore him taking on more chores to "help" is the solution to "my" problem.

Whereas I think the problem is that he doesn't pull his weight.

That's brilliant clarity, ChaCha Hang onto that for the next conversation. Good luck and strength. You're going to need that.

Re YOU getting stressed & him not -- this is "Wifework" isn't it? He compartmentalises, but doesn't seem to have a grasp of the holistic picture of how the family is run, and keeps on running.

Well done for having the conversation.
Other than the bit the others have pointed out it seems to have gone well.
Whether it has actually sunk in is another matter but you won't know for a few weeks yet.

Yes, you should tell him the consequences of not fulfilling his role in the house. See how it goes on Monday and then discuss it with him in the evening.

And definitely sit down and discuss finances.
Everything joint (if that is what you want). All bills paid out of joint account. Anything left over gets split 50/50 and put into your own accounts to do with as you wish.
But make sure 'everything' comes out of the joint account. Kids activities, clothes, shoes, dinners out, friends presents, family presents, days out etc.....

I really hope it works out for you and I really hope he does make the changes needed to make the relationship work.

But like you say - the love seems to have already gone. He has a lot of work to do. Just make sure he understands that.