His rape jokes upset me - how to approach

[How2Bringitup]

I'm a pretty shy person that doesn't like to cause a fuss. I find it difficult to bring up the subject of something upsetting me because for some reason I end up feeling like I'm being silly.

I met a new guy 3 months ago, he seems great and very supportive but he jokes about rape a lot. This is a big thing for me as a rape victim myself. He knows this about me. It happened to me when I was 15 and recently (since hes known me) it happened again.

He was incredibly good to me during that horrible time, he saw how distraught I was. He had made a few jokes before it happened and now, a few weeks later they have started again. They aren't actual one-liner jokes but he will drop rape into a made up scenario hes talking about for humorous effect. I dont laugh at these, just change the subject out of awkwardness.

Everytime I just hear the work I feel sick. He brought it up about 4 times this weekend.

How do I bring this up out of nowhere? I cant imagine hes intentionally trying to upset me so I feel guilty telling him that I feel upset.

This may be a shit comparison, hope it doesn't offend anyone.

Bit I'm thinking it would be like him saying to you he had cancer a few months ago, and had a testicle removed or something, and you constantly making "cancer jokes" (are there any?) or one-ball jokes whilst he is there.

To me, that just seems like the last thing anyone, who isn't purposefully trying to be cruel, would do.

You might get the odd person who is so nervous they put their foot in it once, are mortified, and never speak again, but nobody would do it this many times, unless it's tourrettes maybe?

Well done for recognising that he shouldn't be making rape jokes and for talking to him about it. It shows that your spidey senses are working and that you are brave. He has told you all you need to know now, he is a nasty person and you are much much better off without him.

He is different to your abusive ex but that doesn't mean better.

MN helped me to fine tune my spidey senses. I dated a guy who promised me the earth and seemed bloody lovely but something wasn't right. I realised that he would ask me to make a decision (eg where to sit in the cinema) and then find a reason for my choice to be wrong (delivered with a smile and a kiss to throw me off) and choose somewhere else. It was subtle but it happened all the time and it undermined me and made me question my judgement. He also told me how he had "got angry" with his ex and I remembered hearing "when someone tells you who they are- listen" on MN.

Please listen to these wise posters. He is nasty and you are vulnerable. It's a terrible combination,

I am so sorry for what has been done to you

Hi op, please please please listen to what everyone is saying to you. You're vulnerable at the moment after what happened and he is displaying classic signs of being an abuser. There are serious red flags here.

He should be nurturing you and trying to help you recover, NOT making jokes about something so horrendous and DEFINITELY NOT getting angry when you tell him that he upset you. Seriously, wtf??

I am very worried for you reading your posts. You haven't known this man long. Please get out as soon as you can - you have a great chance to do this now before things escalate. I have heard so many sad stories of long term abuse on mumsnet...please don't end up being one of those [thank]

Keep posting here for support xx

Some men seem to enjoy being the rescuer so much that after they have helped someone vulnerable, and she starts to recover, they push her back into the water so they can rescue her all over again - seems it was the vulnerability they find attractive and they want that back. At least that's my armchair-psychology diagnosis. I don't have a qualification in that sort of thing but I've spent 25 years in a somewhat similar knock-me-down/pick-me-up relationship, and have retained, if not all my marbles, at least my eyes and ears.

EXACTLY what wiggly said at 23:20. Great post.

OP, I'm so sorry this has happened to you and that you feel alone and vulnerable. But this man is not the answer. He is telling you who he is - at best completely insensitive and at worst a rape apologist and utter cunt. You say you were in an abuse relationship before, but that doesn't mean you need to settle for this man, who treats you cruelly, just because he isn't "as bad" as your former abuser. The fact he tried to make you out to the the bad guy for calling him out on being cruel to you (and apparently not even realising how cruel he was being) should be a huge red flag.

Please don't stay with a man who makes you feel bad just for the sake of not being alone. You don't need him, you can be just fine, happy and strong on your own. Please be kinder to yourself.

So you're traumatised to the point where you can't leave the house, and he purposely jokes (four times in one weekend!) about the situation that made you so traumatised?

Make no mistake, he does mean to upset you. I think it might actually be the entire point. He's not going to help you recover.

Take care of yourself and focus on you. This relationship will not be good for you.

those 'rescuer' types can turn nasty/abusive if you don't respond to their rescuing with sufficient gratitude. (have experienced this twice unfortunately). Once a woman who was determined to 'help' me, showing up at my house with bags of old --junk- clothes and some other things somebody somewhere might feasibly be able to use but i hadn't said i needed them. she also said something in public earshot about me being a battered wife. when i withdrew from her as quickl as i could she hated me.

another rescuer - on line but on a much smaller board than this, when I didn't accept all of his wisdom he turned really nasty

mn helped me fine tune my spidey senses

YES YES!!

\Being alone for a while was great, allowed me to rebuild everything in my life. Only now do I feel ready. Please don't fear it OP. If you're on your own there's more room for your friends to check in with you. If you meet somebody somewhere and you think they get it you don't have to present a case to the master at home to be allowed to meet up with your new friend. Being on your own is not being alone.

anniegetyourgun your armchair diagnosis strikes a chord with me. when i left my x i was really certain i wouldn't get in to another abusive relationship and I didn't, at least, not a romantic one, but I wasn't astute enough to avoid a rescuer type. I must have worn my vulnerability on my sleeve, although, having escaped the situation I was possibly stronger than I appeared to be which thwarted the rescuer's plan. I wince now when I think of this older man on line who more than once pmd me his number and wanted to meet up so he could advise me. His own life was a bugger's muddle but he seemed so certain he was in a position to advise me and help me. I couldn't articulate it but I sensed I needed to stay away from him, Then he started to turn on me, and he would repeat things back (on line) and give everything i'd done the most negative interpretation possible. Ishould have name-changed but 80% of the people on that single parenting forum were so supportive that I felt I shouldn't do that. a mistake probably as he did hinder my recovery. My psychotherapist asked me why I judged myself so harshly and his name popped in to my head. He really hated me because I wouldn't let him 'rescue' me. Sorry for the derailment there.

also bizarrely, because he only turned on a small percentage of people, he was quite well respected by those on the single parenting board who he'd never 'attacked' or 'rescued'. (and those not over burdened with intelligence!). Nobody really noticed the damaging effect of somebody repeating back to somebody everything they'd already said, but giving it the most negative interpretation imagineable and making them defend themself against those 'charges'. and his vendetta against me all stemmed from my not co-operating with his need to rescue.

Oh bless you.
I honestly cannot begin to imagine what you must be going through.
And latching onto something, anything is what you want to do.

If you aren't already, then please get in touch with Rape Crisis.
If you didn't report the rape, please think about doing it.
Rape Crisis can help you with that.

And please contact Womens Aid. They can help you in all sorts of ways after being in an abusive relationship.

Time to get yourself some outside help and support.

As everyone else has said. Please please get yourself away from this awful man.

It will be hard, but please try to find yourself. Womens Aid can help you with that.

op I'm so sorry that this has happened to you.

Please call rape crisis and talk through your feelings with them, they will be able to give you sound advice.

From what you have said on here my impression is that he is enjoying the power he has over you- you bein quite vulnerable and emotionally depleted. You need to take steps to protect yourself from such predatory men. That's what he is.

What advice would you give your dd if she came to you with this situation?

Feeling lonely is horrible, how could you make new connections? Consider how to work on you raked being happy and strong without a bloke in the ph tire for a bit.

Hugs to you, and best wishes.

Such great advice here. It has made me sort through the last 3 months and pick out questionable behaviour.

Anniegetyourgun I think this might be him. When I met him he told me he was the type of guy that's always gone out with somewhat troubled women that he could rescue. I didn't really count myself as one of those women in the beginning. I had been single for longer than I'd ever been before and felt as if I was stronger than ever. I think through his eyes he saw a single mother that had been abandoned with not many people around.

He likes to have reasons to look after me. He makes me jealous on purpose so that he can see me squirm and then reassure me, he found out I was quite a jumpy person and will jump out on me so he can see me scared and then comfort me afterwards. He goes from 0-100 very quickly with his tempers. The reason I broke things off with him in the first place is because of his jealousy (thought every time someone came over I was sleeping with them - even 2 old friends that are a couple) and how many times he'd started arguments. He does seem to like to rock the boat so he can make things better afterwards.

I dont know how I will use those thoughts, part of me is still thinking that they dont necessarily mean anything sinister. I'm not sure yet, just trying to put a picture together. I cant stop seeing this affectionate, gentle, loving side of him.

The affectionate, gentle, loving behaviour is designed to keep you doubting the alarm bells going off in your head. He has revealed his true colours through some very worrying behaviour. Please don't let this 'act' get the better of you - this is what abusers do to keep victims hanging on and coming back to them.

I think quite often normal, nice people find it hard to recognise such unreasoning viciousness and don't read so much into it because it isn't directed at them. Slightly different situation, but there's a woman at work who has form for taking against people and blanking them completely - which makes working in a small team with her rather challenging - and never, never forgiving them. People who this hasn't happened to think oh, she's all right really, just a bit grumpy sometimes, you've just got to handle her right; I thought so too, until it happened to me. One colleague didn't even do anything wrong (not that the thing I did was wrong, exactly, but at least I did do it). The woman just thought she had, and will carry on not speaking to her for ever on the strength of having once believed it. It's not rational and that's why normal people don't get it, because they don't understand it. But there are a depressing number of very peculiar people about, and I'm sorry you fell foul of one.

And this (IMO) is why domestic abuse often goes unrecognised or belittled by outside parties. They only see the public face, the witty party-goer or the quiet polite partner, and find it hard to reconcile with the dreadful behaviour their friend has confided to them. They think, but he's such a nice guy, surely he wouldn't do that... she must have unwittingly triggered some deep reaction... I'm sure he didn't mean it. That's because they haven't witnessed it in all its hideous unfairness, but are squinting at a description of it through their nice-tinted spectacles. Abusers are often extremely charming, and because their emotions are not genuinely engaged, are good at switching off in the middle of a row when someone else walks in, leaving their partner looking angry, upset and just a little unhinged - so who is the visitor going to believe is the nice guy? When I read "Why Does He Do That" and saw it nailed down on the page, it was a spooky feeling.

He is purposefully manipulatibg you op.

Jesus, I'm sorry, he sounds horrendous.
He makes you jealous so that he can reassure you.
He scares you so that he can comfort you afterwards.
He accuses you of sleeping with your friends.

I don't know what to say. This is not normal. It IS sinister.

How do I bring this up out of nowhere?

You don't. You walk away.
I think pretty much everyone I know would NOT joke about rape.

He is showing you who he is.
He thinks rape is funny.

Walk. Away!

I won't do it again, what else do you want me to say?! Seems like you're trying to cause a fight

He is blaming you for not finding him funny...when in reality he isn't funny.

Agree with pp, he is sucking you in.

So true Anniegetyourgun, people belittle the bad behaviour they see before their eyes and think that the recipient just isn't handling it right. Because if they haven't been the direct recipient of the inexplicably unfair exclusion/bullying/manipulation,then they just don't really believe it that bad. Because people in a group, with witnesses to their behaviour just don't behave like that?! or do they!? yes they do. And quite often then when everybody ELSE stays silent there is so much pressure on the recipient of hte bullying or exclusion to just stay quiet and suck it up because if they speak out,they're the catalyst, they're the one that turned a happy working atmosphere in to an unpleasant atmosphere! the recipient of the bad behaviour ends up the bad guy.

part of me is still thinking that they dont necessarily mean anything sinister. I cant stop seeing this affectionate, gentle, loving side of him.

That is your wishful thinking. You are seeing the man you want him to be, and what he presents to you to keep you hooked.
The other side of him (which I do is very much sinister, in many ways) is the real him, and what will come out in full force once he thinks you are hooked.

Sorry, reply above was to Maleducada, took too long mulling it over - but I think it's kind of relevant to your last sentence too, How2. That's amazing he actually told you about the rescuing thing because there you have it, it's not just a half-baked theory by a bod off the internet, it's confirmed out of the horse's mouth.

Thing is, don't you see, he's manipulating you like a tool to gratify himself, not treating you like a human being. Your emotions are not your own, they are dictated by him. He's not a partner, he's a puppet-master. It's a subtle form of Munchausen Syndrome by proxy. He'd as soon saw your leg off so he can be your crutch (figuratively speaking). I can't see this turning out well.

there are some good articles on fog about rescuer complex