BBC3 programme; wake up call

[PerfectlyPosed]

I'm sure there have been numerous threads about 'Murdered by my boyfriend' which was on Monday evening. I have watched it twice, once with my DP of 6 years and once with my two best friends.

The scene in it that made me really sit up and re-evaluate my relationship was at the end when it all came to a head and he, eventually, beat her to death. He got home very drunk and climbed onto the bed with her as she pretended to sleep. Then when she wouldn't wake up he started being a bit more aggressive and pushing her until eventually she snapped in his face.

This is exactly what my DP does to me. He comes in from a drunken night out telling me he loves me and I am his world, etc. etc. Then gradually gets more and more irritating (purposely stealing the covers or knowingly sitting too close, etc.) until I am forced to retaliate. He has never hit me and I really don't think he would but it really frightened me to see the similarities. I even said, when I was watching last night with friends, "this is exactly the way DP behaves" and they were shocked. I have recently found out I am pregnant.

I don't know why I've posted really, just to get it off my chest I suppose. In many ways, he is incredible and I am so happy that we are having a baby together but that programme really frightened me. The guy on there was charming and treated her like a princess at the beginning but flipped when he became paranoid about her behaviour. DP has never been possessive and we very much have our own lives but he does like a drink and can sometimes often get quite aggressive with it although I must reiterate never violent.

You mention watching it with him. Sorry if all ready mentioned but I have not read all the posts. Did he make any comments? Did you talk about something he did that the guy did and say - that's what I hate when you do this? I bet he could not see himself there or managed to change it around to you. "Well you should have been awake/over here and I wouldn't have hd to do this" etc etc.

Do not kid yourself that the guy will suddenly become normal around the baby. Babies take up so much time that even normal guys get a mite jealous. Your bloke will be impossible around a demanding, crying child. You will no doubt have to do all the work and will have to "shut that kid up before I do it for you".

Don't kid yourself he will change and stop/slow down on the drinking. He is Mr Popular down the pub. Why would he change???

PerfectlyPosed, it took my DP years to change (8 months pregnant with our THIRD baby when he stepped up and stopped being such a party animal ffs).

He only goes out occasionally now, but still gets stupidly drunk. Although he doesn't act like your DP - he just stumbles in and falls asleep!

So now you have got to the point where you are engaging with him on that basis, the controller and controlled. But it can't be so obvious so drama is created. He knows that you need to make something happen to forget the nasty part, the thing that started the row, the thing that a decent man would make a joke about, or reassure you about. You remember your own weakness instead, your own faults, you lose control, feel guilty, and forget that his response to what happened is what was wrong. He creates this confusion for the smoke bomb effect that it has. He is doing this because he doesn't want to lose you and this is a way to hide the real problem.

This has really hit the nail on the head. I am ALWAYS the one to apologise. Mostly because I want an easy life but often because I sit all day stewing (I'm a real over-thinker as it is) and end up turning it round on myself so I feel like I'm to blame. I'm still upset by the way he has treated me but I almost justify his behaviour because of the way I have retaliated and behaved following the bad night's sleep and general abuse. It's exhausting.

Funnily enough, he flicked onto BBC3 as that scene was being shown last night. I said "turn it off I don't think I can watch it for a third time". He said "why did you watch it again?" and I said "because my friend hadn't seen it and I wanted to watch it again when she was over". He said it was horrible to watch and he's surprised I could bear to watch it. I said yes it is horrible but it happens and it's good that they are making people aware of what goes on. He said "not in my life it doesn't". I raised my eyebrows and he laughed and asked if I thought there were similarities. I said that although he doesn't hit me, there are something's that felt a little similar. He basically told me I was ridiculous and if anything, he's the one that is abused. I turned over and went to sleep but I was upset that we couldn't even have a proper conversation about it.

You're getting there OP.

What happens is that telling someone in this situation to leave their partner is pointless because they are not choosing to stay.

The only thing for you to do is to let go. Disengage, and go and arm yourself with an understanding of abuse so this doesn't happen again.

You shouldn't discuss this with him any more. You need to protect yourself. A normal man wouldn't challenge you because you have questions related to the programme, he would be mortified and deeply upset. He would question himself. Please keep all of this to yourself but behave as normally as you can until you can leave safely. You will want to share, to teach him and help him but he will use that as a way of keeping you hanging on.

He basically told me I was ridiculous and if anything, he's the one that is abused.

Huge red flag.

Leave. ASAP.

Would you really not try and talk to him at all? Try and make him understand what my fears are and what he can do to resolve them? If he knew he was turning into his Dad, I think he would genuinely want to change. Then give him an ultimatum and if he doesn't stick to it, then leave? Or is that too much of a risk? Is it not even worth trying?

He basically told me I was being ridiculous and if anything, he's the one being abused

My stbxh used to say this to me every time I tried to raise an issue with him. Whether it be his verbal abuse/destructive behaviour..whatever. He was very good at making everything my fault, and I became conditioned to accept the blame.

But you HAVE talked to him! Over and over. You even talked to him (again) about the film. He says "Doesn't happen in my life." He says "You're the abuser." He won't listen to your recording, doesn't want to listen to it, says it doesn't happen.

Perfectly, when a drunk won't admit their problem, they're doomed. When a bully won't admit their problem, their target's doomed.

You're looking at a really serious malfunction here :( You can't fix it with a nice chat.

Read this! In fact, clear an hour to click around the whole site. It might help you understand.

my abuser told folk I was an abuser too - typical deflection. I couldn't ask him to hang a tea towel up or put the bins out for fear of being told off for something. Everything was my fault too.

I'm now labelled 'the psycho ex' by most of our old mutual friends because of the crap (and utter out and out lies) he's told them about me. Deflection indeed.

Good thing I know what really happened.

I talked with my stbxh til I was blue in the face, I'd get the odd glimmer of hope that he'd understood, he'd turn on the charm for a few weeks and just as I began to relax..BAM..abusive again. It's insidious and it's designed to wear you down. It's the cycle of abuse and as I'm just finding out, they adapt the cycle once you're separated in order to continue it.

their abusive behaviour is ingrained - I really don't think they can change it. It is a part of them.

Ha - I am psycho ex too. If I am that bad why did he leave his child with me and never bother to speak to her I wonder.

With this answer, there is no point talking to him.
That was your conversation and that was his answer.

Give up.

Would you really not try and talk to him at all? Try and make him understand what my fears are and what he can do to resolve them? If he knew he was turning into his Dad, I think he would genuinely want to change. Then give him an ultimatum and if he doesn't stick to it, then leave? Or is that too much of a risk? Is it not even worth trying?

No. You would be wasting your breath and your energy. It just won't register - or if it does, it will be for about a week or so, then his behaviour will revert to what it was previously.

I've also been there and got out. This was a very, very long time ago, though.

My feelings are, though, that he's not trying to be abusive. He's learnt lessons from his dad and doesn't realise that he's wrong. And because the arguments about his behaviour always end up with me apologising, he's not learning from it, he's thinking it's me at fault because I'm allowing him to think that.

Again, not trying to minimise it but I just don't see that he has sought (sp.?) me out to bring me down and destroy my confidence. I don't think he is clever enough for that.

I didn't think that, either perfectly, and I'm not suggesting he 'sought you out', only that once he found you to be outspoken etc he sought to quell it.

I thought I knew my boundaries. I thought they were strong. It was a long time before I realised he'd slowly and systematically crossed them all in such an insidious fashion. I'd rationalised and minimalised his actions so much, compromised my integrity to 'keep my family together.'

Maybe it's not enough for you to leave right now, but it is enough to keep you cautious in the future x

it is the pattern though - do you really think he will admit he is wrong go and get counselling and fix himself? It is not going to happen - he can promise you the moon on a stick but the behaviour does re-emerge. It always does,

I see what you mean. I have an opinion and I will argue if I believe something isn't right and he doesn't like being brought down so he reverts it back to me.

However, I don't know if I can leave on those grounds. I know you are all saying that he can't change but what if he has? I know it's very early days but we haven't had any of this since I've been pregnant so maybe it is the slap in the face he's needed. He went out last Saturday, he got very drunk but when he got home, he didn't even come upstairs. He went straight in the living room put the TV on and fell asleep. He got into bed without saying a word at about 8am. We then had lunch plans at my mum's where I was telling her I was pregnant which he knew was really important to me and he got up and ready without any fuss. And when I told my mum, I was genuinely happy and proud that I was having his baby.

I think this whole thing has been a real eye opener and I will certainly be more cautious and ready to leave if anything did happen but I think I need to give our relationship one more try before I walk away from it.

he's not trying to be abusive. He's learnt lessons from his dad and doesn't realise that he's wrong

What on earth makes you think you can undo and replace a grown man's childhood? These behaviours are his normal. It's not like he had a functional, supportive childhood, and just caught this from his dad like some kind of behavioural flu. It is the whole core & foundation of his being.

By way of a clue, I was in intensive therapy for 10 years and am still 're-parenting' myself. It's a long, hard and expensive slog. I don't blame anyone who chooses not to undertake this. I do think people who want to fix another person's broken childhood are acting very foolishly.

Even if you had a time machine, what would you do? Adopt him?

Perfect spelling , Perfectly

He didn't seek you out deliberately, it would be so much easier if he was an monster hatching out an evil plan. He's really just a bloke who has grown up to believe that this is how his relationship needs to be in order for him to survive it. This is his normal.

These people have an inbuilt radar which knows which women will tolerate their control over them and which ones won't. It's all done quite naturally. He needs this in the same way that you need trust and kindness. But as Garlic said up thread in order to find out, they put people through little tests, pushing them a bit further to ensure that they don't leave. Once they themselves are happy with their level of control they can feel love. After that it is very hard to separate these two people as the aggressor can't bear even perceived rejection and it triggers feelings they can't control and your submission is crucial to his emotional survival. When the real rejection comes is when they are at their most dangerous.

I shall go on...

The emotional dependence he felt was very subtle in the programme, hard to see, but he was on high alert for any signs of dissent or perceived rejection.

Centuries ago he may have simply beaten her in public but in 2014 that is illegal so he is on his best behaviour just because he has to be.

So he needs to keep you down but has to do it with his brain instead of his fists. He says nasty things, ignores you, obstructs you, refuses to plan anything. That's so that you are left focused on him, you can't move on. But to stop you from leaving he makes you get angry, just enough to fight, and stands by while you confuse yourself as your good nature eventually gets the better of you and you blame yourself.

I would go as far as to say that emotional abuse is not a milder form of physical abuse, it's just the modern version.

Few abusers actually intend to be abusive.
Childhood does indeed embed beliefs about men, women, roles, behaviour and entitlements right down into a person's psyche. It's almost impossible to reverse those messages without deep and intensive therapy. Getting a 'slap in the face' or a 'wake up call' about his behaviour will not have any effect on his core beliefs, or his alcohol addiction.
You're still in the stage of believing that an abuser can choose to think and behave differently by being shown how wrong his behaviour is. It's not how it works. Think about the beliefs you have ingrained from your childhood - for example, could you be persuaded that women should stay home and be subservient to their husbands, if you were persuaded with the right language? I bet not, because it goes against your every belief about men and women. It wouldn't matter how long and how eloquently a man tried to convince you otherwise, you know it's wrong.
Same with the abuser. Ok, you might not find him arguing that it's ok for him to hit you, but he will argue that you wound him up, you share the blame etc. Or he will argue that he can't help it, he just sees red. Etc etc. These are core beliefs and you can't persuade him into believing otherwise.
I know your guy hasn't hit you, but you just had a conversation with him where he denied any responsibility. In what was is that changing? He literally just came home and handed you responsibility for his alcohol use by saying he abstained 'for you'. There is no change here!

If you are going to try the 'he needs a chance to change' route then he needs to take responsibility for his behaviour at the very very least but he's denying! refusing to discuss it and calling you an abuser. This is an absolute non starter. You have known you were pregnant for what? A month? And you are taking it as a good sign that he has managed not to abuse you when drunk for that long :(

Exactly what unreal said. Absolutely spot on.

X post. It's fine if you don't leave him tomorrow, but it's not about trying. I think one way forward is to do a few tests on him. See how he reacts when you ignore comments you would usually react to or ask him to make a plan for something. Perhaps don't do something he normally takes for granted. Do it mindfully, note his responses. If you've looked into this at all, you will find he's a textbook case.

Utterly brilliant posts on this thread, Unreal.

Perfectly, I do hope you're reading some of the suggested links, and learning.

I know that everything you are saying is absolutely true and please don't think that I am ignoring you because I'm not, I am taking this very seriously. It's scary to think that something I considered as fairly minor is actually far more sinister than I ever thought. He doesn't know any better and that's very sad but I know it's not my responsibility to change him.

Think about the beliefs you have ingrained from your childhood - for example, could you be persuaded that women should stay home and be subservient to their husbands, if you were persuaded with the right language?

His parents have been together since they were teenagers. His mum is very much a housewife. Yes she works but she gets up every morning at 6.30 to make the lunches, she prepares a fully homecooked meal every evening including a full blown roast every Tuesday. She cleans, she does the washing, she brings cups of tea when required. She goes to bed at 10pm as usual on a Sunday, Wednesday and Friday night whilst his dad sits down stairs getting blind drunk, singing at the top of his voice, talking and fighting with inanimate objects. I have always always said that as much as I have love her, I have no intention of becoming like her but I think, slowly, I am. DP does most of the cooking but that's because he enjoys it and he does a lot of the housework too but that's because he works shorter hours than me so he does it before I get home. But other similarities are there and it's not pleasant.

I know I'm just going round in circles. I know I shouldn't be with him and I know I'm mad to stay with him but I'm not ready to walk away just yet.

Garlic believe me, I am reading everything and trying to take everything in. I haven't had proper looks at the links but I will do.