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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Pretty desperate (v.v.v.long)

205 replies

JustDontWantToSay · 24/06/2014 00:06

It's taken me weeks and weeks to pluck up the courage to post here. I am doing this out of utter desperation. I've hesitated because my DP would be so furious if he found out - the fury I could cope with but he would mock me too, i.e. "oh you think you're hard done by after what you've done," etc., etc. and I find that the most cutting thing of all.

Sorry - I think this may be quite a long post.

Basically I'm not sure whether I'm in an abusive relationship or not. Or whether I'm the problem. Please, please be honest if you reply - I need to know whether I'm going mad or not.

We've been together 2 years. I don't really want to describe the incidents to date because it will out me, but I don't see an alternative if I want valid opinions. I'm a strong character, he's a strong character. We had a complicated start but we knew that we wanted to be together and we worked hard to do that. It was very stressful for lots of different reasons, we really didn't have the best start.

Around 3m into the relationship he lost his temper after a party one night, threw me against a wall and onto a bed, gripped me so hard I bruised and threw me out of the front door of a hotel room into the snow wearing nothing but my knickers. I was only out there for a few seconds though and then he opened the door again. We were both drunk and tension was high. He was mortified the next morning and swore that he'd never do it again. A few weeks later we had an argument in a hotel and he smashed a wineglass in his hand. I left.

Over the next few months we had dramatic highs and lows. The highs were the best days of my life and the lows were the worst. We had a couple of big arguments where he got slightly violent (smashing things, pushing me up against a fireplace and he held a glass against my neck threatening to smash it into me - though this is something he completely denies. Maybe I imagined it. I'm not sure. It was a vivid memory at the time.) In his defence I have to say that I would have been antagonising him by arguing with him. At that point I wasn't one to shy away from a disagreement. His point throughout the relationship has been "you don't know when to stop". His jealousy was getting out of control too. He once marched me home from a bar, physically manhandling me. I didn't want to go elsewhere, but he made it clear that I was within his physical control. On another occasion we were in a restaurant and there must have been something going on; all I remember is him saying "I've seen you look at that table of blokes once, I've seen you look twice, now you do it a third time" - very threateningly. I just stared down at my hands as it was safest after that.

A short while later we split up. Before that, we had some vicious fights (always drink-related, Saturday night, emotions boiling over sort of thing) and I called the police twice, probably unnecessarily and he holds it against me to this day, calling me 'mad', 'attention seeking', etc.

Three times we had a 'last night' together because he was going to end it with me. After the split I was diagnosed with severe depression. Medication helped. We got back together and all was fine until Christmas. We had an argument one night and he locked me out of his house (I had no key, live two hours away) and I stayed in the pub and became aware that there was a table of three blokes next to me and they were talking about something that interested me. To my huge embarrassment now I was so drunk that I went over, joined their table and their conversation for a bit. I can honestly say that by this point I was absolutely desperate for non-judgmental company. Desperate. I would never have gone on to do anything else under any circumstances. Over Xmas I think what happened was that he got annoyed that I was having fun at my parents' without him (he had his own plans) and on Boxing Day I was late to see him (maybe an hour, maybe a bit less, because I was packing) and we had an enormous fight in a car park where he literally screamed at me for an hour or more in public about this pub incident that he had got to hear of. Again, I didn't help matters by trying to slap his face once with a bunch of keys in my hand. To this day he accuses me of punching him with a bunch of keys, and whilst they were in my hand I genuinely didn't intend them to touch him. It was a fraught situation and I made a mistake.

There have been a few incidents since then, too many to recall exactly, but one saw me going to the pub to use the wi-fi to submit some work and because he'd been out all afternoon (I was unreasonably annoyed) I decided to stay there. In retrospect I was crying out for attention and care. Again, I joined a table of people (male and female) and stayed there for a couple of drinks. Not having eaten and drunk far too much I ended up absolutely wasted, left my ipad behind the bar in lieu of paying because I couldn't find my card and stumbled back to his house. His view on the whole night had been "Well, fuck you, if you're out, I'm going out."
In the morning I told him where I'd been and he went ballistic. He threw me and my stuff out of his flat, I wasn't dressed and he made me get dressed in a communal stairwell. He literally threw my bags down the stairs. He said that I was completely disrespectful and selfish. We fought badly that day, but I had behaved appallingly by staying out and getting drunk. He thinks that a woman shouldn't be in a pub on her own.

On another occasion he got angry and threw my shoes out of the window into the road, meaning that I had to go out barefoot to the middle of a busy road and pick them up. The humiliation was horrible. A few weeks ago I drove to see him after a fight and found him in a bar, he was very drunk. He was absolutely horrible to me and threw me physically out his flat and took back the key he'd given me and I had to sleep in my car overnight. He apologised profusely the next day and was sincere in regretting it.

So now we get to this period of time and it's been a rollercoaster. In brief: he is extremely suspicious and jealous, he needs to know all my passwords, if I use my phone when he's not next to me he accuses me of being 'sneaky'. He regularly goes through my phone and computer, etc. and flies off the handle if he sees anything he doesn't like (old photos, etc.) If I use any form of social media he is instantly suspicious and disapproving. He says that I've caused it by lying to him. I do admit that I have lied - but it was only ever about stupid stuff (is that coat new? No, type thing) I know that doesn't justify it.

Over the last few weeks I have been diagnosed with anxiety and have new meds (they're working well). He has been making a big effort to drive to see me rather than the other way around and we've had some spectacular times. We were aiming to spend our lives together and whilst I was totally comfortable with that idea, he wasn't and the pressure was always on - if I put a foot wrong then I wouldn't be a suitable wife. He's always yelled insults at me, but recently he's got really nasty - he's called me a scumbag, a disgusting cunt, a fucking awful person, a complete fucking joke, basically run me into the ground. He says that he only says those things when I am behaving like a disgusting cunt or whatever (this isn't language I would normally use btw). He says that I don't know when to stop and that's why he gets so angry. This weekend I really wanted to go to a special, one-off event which we had planned to attend together, but it had been sold out but a last minute opportunity came up. I was all excited and began making plans to see if we could go and he got immediately cross at one of my ideas (he said that I was 'palming my child off on anyone who would have her' - I'd suggested her staying with someone as an IDEA, it wasn't fixed or a definite plan in any way and I wouldn't have done anything if it wasn't in her best interests.) He got aggressive, nasty, shouted some awful things and I walked out. He said he couldn't go to the event because he had nothing ti wear (specific dress needed) He was appalled at the thought I would go on my own for an hour or so - it was my last chance to see one friend before she moves abroad and a whole group of girls were going who I am friendly with. I really wanted to go,.He later admitted that he'd lied to me about not having clothes because I hadn't walked in immediately and asked him if he wanted to go. I assumed that his previous desire to attend still stood. I wasn't sure all day about going or not and eventually he said that he would rip up my dress to stop me going, and all of my other dresses, though he later said that he wouldn't actually have done it. So I missed the event. He blamed me hugely for 'fucking off and doing whatever I wanted' when I walked out because he was being so verbally abusive. He denies this, but every time I came back he went down the same path and I was trying to make a stand.

Last night was the final straw. Too boring to go into but basically his point was that I have no right to complain about anything he does because of what I've done (nothing not detailed here). He says that I am selfish on a level that he's never experienced before (hand on heart, I'm just a normal person), I'm rude on a daily basis (I'm not at ALL) and he cannot see any fault with himself in any way. He says that he has the right to throw me out of his home and call me names, though he admits it isn't nice. These are things that have been repeated hundreds of times, along with the names. He accuses me of being deliberately deceitful, manipulative, spiteful, that I have 'snidey eyes' and many other things. When I argue he shouts that I'll "say ANYTHING" to win a point (I don't) and he constantly accuses me of lying. He sneers at me, belittles me constantly and mocks me by repeating what I've said in a childish voice. This morning I began to tackle him very gently about his behaviour, knowing that I couldn't take any more, and he turned around and said that he felt he was in an abusive relationship, that I was an abusive person, that I lied and manipulated and controlled him, that I had damaged him completely, that I'd ripped him apart and left his self-esteem at rock bottom, that I was calculated and nasty and would stop at nothing to make sure that he was hurt. Nothing could be further from the truth but he just doesn't see it. He says that anger is the only emotion that I can't destroy so it's all he has to use. I promise that I am just a normal woman, going about my normal life and trying to be the best partner that I can to him. I don't do anything that he accuses me of but he just can't see it. He remains determined that I'm this awful person. He says that I 'suck the life out of him', that being with me is an awful thing. He has isolated me from friends and family but hating me going out with friends, disliking my friends, saying that it's disrespectful to see them. He doesn't believe that I haven't slept with some of them. I just cannot tell him anything. He makes his mind up and that's that. He judges me on things that I simply haven't done. He's called me a whore, a slut and many other things.

What he said this morning has floored me. Am I abusive?? How?? I try every which way to look after him - doing all his washing, cooking for him when I can, giving him drinks and vitamins, tidying his flat, doing little things that he likes and I curb my own tongue all the time so that we don't fight. Now I've reached the point where my self-esteem is so low that the only people who make me feel like a decent person are my daughters. I rely heavily on their smiles, hugs and pictures that they draw to make me feel ok. I am often frightened by him - I know he would physically overpower me if he wanted. I feel undervalued, worthless and not special in any way in the slightest. He says that this is exactly how he feels. The name-calling really upsets me for some reason. They're only words but they do upset me. My friends and family hate him because I've relayed some of his behaviour. He's cross about this and says that I painted him in a certain light and focussed on the bad bits rather than the good.

Flip side? I do love him, I understand he's damaged in some way and we do have some wonderful times. He's done a lot for me.

That's it I guess. Sorry it's so long. I'd be grateful for any feedback. Has anyone else been in this position? What should I do? I am totally isolated, no friends or family nearby. I have no-one to confide in.

PS. The alcohol usage is going to leap out at you. I'd just like to say that we don't drink heavily or every day and it isn't a problem. It just seems to have fuelled fights in the past - so we cut it out.

OP posts:
vicmackie · 25/06/2014 14:39

Hasn't your mother already expressed anger and concern about the impact if your relationship on your children? I seem to remember her being very angry with you at the time of your thread about the ipad in the pub? Apologies if I'm wrong.

wannabestressfree · 25/06/2014 14:47

If you want to kid yourself that's your children's existence then that's up to you....
If you are in 'inner turmoil' and spend your time worrying about this man and his actions, and frankly yours they will pick up on that.
I am glad my children don't have that 'priviledge'

defineme · 25/06/2014 14:50

I've never strived to be anything with my dh of 15 years-I just am and he loves me as I am. I've been grumpy, made a tit of myself, allsorts over the years and I've never doubted his love even when we've had large rows over stupid things. I have never ever shut up for fear of angering him. I haven't got his voice in my head saying nasty stuff because he never has. What I have is not special just bog standard normal.
Your life with the girls sounds great-stick with that and put an end to this nonsense.
No amount of 'wonderful' can make up for what you have described.
Hopefully counselling can make you understand why you've continued with this madness.

EhricLovesTheBhrothers · 25/06/2014 14:52

I'm afraid that's denial talking. They will be affected.

OxfordBags · 25/06/2014 15:01

OP, the way you are affected by being abused doesn't just affect you at the time of the abuse, or as inner turmoil, it manifests in all aspects of your life, personality and behaviour. To be with someone like him, you must be a deeply damaged, insecure, needy person. My sympathies are 100% with you, and I am not criticising you for being damaged, needy and insecure (I am also like that). You are lying to yourself about being abused, you are minimising, reframing, and denying the truth. The hurt parts of you that make you not feel deserving of being treated properly, or deserving of leaving an abuser ALSO shape your behaviour and attitude in the rest of your life. You will be manifesting damaging messages about how you let people treat you, and what's normal regarding love, relationships, men, and so on to your DC, even if you wrongly believe that they nothing about you being abused. Have they genuinely never seen you bruised, shaken, upset, angry with him, or him angry/rude/threatening/disrespectful/insulting/violent to you? Have they genuinely never seen you embroiled in the drama of it all, like emotionally fraught phonecalls or texting, fretting and obsessing about it all? Even seeing you in one of the 'highs' is not good for them to witness, as you are teaching them a very dodgy message about love (highs and lows are a classic red flag for abuse).

All their comfort, privilege, security and attention, and even love, means bugger all in the face of learning these terrible lessons about love and relationships. You're modelling far more damaging lessons about life, which threaten their future far more than if you lived in abject poverty. A privileged existence + mother being abused and modelling accepting abuse just means that when they're older, they'll fall for men who keep them in comfort when they abuse them.

You teach children how to behave by your own behaviour. You are teaching them that women should be abused by men.

It is so unfair that abuse makes victims unwittingly complicit in the emotional damage of their own children, but it's a fact. Lie to yourself all you like that you're not being abused, but don't sacrifice your children to your own emotional damage.

I'm being harsh because pussyfooting around does not support you. You need to leave him, end of story. You don't, you are choosing to damage your children, as well as yourself. Leaving is hard, but the truth of your choice really is that simple. Him or them.

OxfordBags · 25/06/2014 15:04

And if you stay with him, what then? Are you going to keep him away from them forever, and be able to hide the abuse you receive from them? The only relationship you need for a very long time is a therapeutic relationship with a therapist trained in helping women vulnerable to being abused.

CocktailQueen · 25/06/2014 15:12

OP, have only just seen this. Your DC MUST be being affected by this hugely toxic relationship. Have they never seen or heard you arguing or being drunk or fighting or shouting?

Seriously, you and this bloke have a horrible relationship - he is hugely abusive but it just sounds like you don't get on. At. All. And you need to be apart, for your sake and your dc's. Why on earth would you want to be with him? What do you get from it?

Get out now, change your locks, delete him from your life and blank him. Focus on you and your dc.

YouAreMyRain · 25/06/2014 15:13

Your daughters will have picked up on the fact that you feel the need to subjugate yourself in a pitiful attempt to please an abusive man. This will be apparent subconsciously in the way you respond to his name, phone calls, the texts, in the way you look at him and react to him, your body language, facial expression when he is present (your kids like him so you must spend some time all together) your behaviour around him etc.

Your daughters will use that as a model to base their own relationships on even if they never see the abuse and mayhem first hand.

You obviously experienced similar growing up for you to think that this relationship has any normality about it at all. Even if you didn't witness abuse, you maybe saw your mum was willing to go to great lengths to please a man (who I'm guessing was probably unworthy or ungrateful).

You have low self esteem. You need him to desperately want you even though he is very nasty and abusive to you. This is not healthy or normal.

Hearing your partners voice mocking you in your head is not healthy or normal.

Being verbally abused/called a whore etc is really not healthy or normal.

Being thrown out of a hotel, humiliated, threatened is all bad. Very bad. Not healthy at all or normal.

If my partner did just one of these things to me, I would leave him. Forever. And we have a baby together.

You are not abusive, he is. It's classic. Abusers often accuse their victims of being the abusive one.

Read "why does he do that?" By Lundy Bancroft. It's all in there. Your relationship documented. Classic abuse. Not romance, not passion but abuse.

And your daughters are already picking up on your low self esteem and willingness to accept abuse just through your everyday interactions and behaviour.

Thumbwitch · 25/06/2014 15:35

"You obviously experienced similar growing up for you to think that this relationship has any normality about it at all. Even if you didn't witness abuse, you maybe saw your mum was willing to go to great lengths to please a man (who I'm guessing was probably unworthy or ungrateful)."

I don't agree with this. Not everyone who enters an abusive relationship has grown up around abuse. I hadn't - ok my experience was very minor in comparison with some and I got lucky because he chose to move on to someone else - but I had no background experience of any kind of abusive relationship prior to him.

Thumbwitch · 25/06/2014 15:36

However I do agree that the OP's daughters are quite likely to "normalise" this as a relationship model and therefore quite likely to fall into abusive relationships themselves as they grow up.

Quitelikely · 25/06/2014 15:37

Op the thing is if you come on here regularly you will know that there are frequent posts from women in similar situations to yourself, the difference here being that you do not live with this man, he is not the father of your girls and you're not financially dependant on him. You are so lucky in all those respects. Because you can easily escape from him. For the others it isn't so easy. It just seems like you want different answers from the ones your getting. I understand that your children aren't witness to this but that's the only good thing I've read so far!

I don't think it's love. You can't fix him. He won't change. And at the m

Quitelikely · 25/06/2014 15:40

Moment I don't feel by what you have said that you are ready to leave this relationship.

You will, keep going round and round in a circle (if you like) and at the end of the circle the situation will still be the same. On and on you will go until eventually you get the message that nothing will change!

This will never end well.

PlantsAndFlowers · 25/06/2014 15:49

You have pasted about him before haven't you? And had the same sort of responses.

hellsbellsmelons · 25/06/2014 16:10

Every single one of the below is abuse. It's long but please read it through.
This man is a misogynistic, woman hating, abusive, nasty nasty bully.
None of the below is taken out of context. It's all from your OP.
Re - re-read and re-read again.
What if one of your daughters was describing a man she was with, with any one of the below. You'd be mortified and telling her to get the FUCK OUT! Do it now. End it. You know you have to. There is too much here. The only amount of abuse that is acceptable in any relationship is NONE!!!!

DP would be so furious if he found out
but he would mock me too
he lost his temper after a party one night, threw me against a wall and onto a bed, gripped me so hard I bruised and threw me out of the front door of a hotel room into the snow wearing nothing but my knickers
we had an argument in a hotel and he smashed a wineglass in his hand
where he got slightly violent (smashing things, pushing me up against a fireplace and he held a glass against my neck threatening to smash it into me
His jealousy was getting out of control too. He once marched me home from a bar, physically manhandling me. I didn't want to go elsewhere, but he made it clear that I was within his physical control
"I've seen you look at that table of blokes once, I've seen you look twice, now you do it a third time" - very threateningly. I just stared down at my hands as it was safest after that.
I called the police twice
calling me 'mad', 'attention seeking'
locked me out of his house (I had no key, live two hours away) and I stayed in the pub
he got annoyed that I was having fun at my parents' without him
we had an enormous fight in a car park where he literally screamed at me for an hour or more in public
He threw me and my stuff out of his flat, I wasn't dressed and he made me get dressed in a communal stairwell
I had behaved appallingly by staying out and getting drunk. He thinks that a woman shouldn't be in a pub on her own
he got angry and threw my shoes out of the window into the road, meaning that I had to go out barefoot to the middle of a busy road and pick them up. The humiliation was horrible
threw me physically out his flat and took back the key he'd given me and I had to sleep in my car overnight
he is extremely suspicious and jealous
he needs to know all my passwords
if I use my phone when he's not next to me he accuses me of being 'sneaky'
He regularly goes through my phone and computer
flies off the handle if he sees anything he doesn't like (old photos, etc.)
If I use any form of social media he is instantly suspicious and disapproving
I've caused it
if I put a foot wrong then I wouldn't be a suitable wife
He's always yelled insults at me, but recently he's got really nasty - he's called me a scumbag, a disgusting cunt, a fucking awful person, a complete fucking joke, basically run me into the ground
he only says those things when I am behaving like a disgusting cunt
He got aggressive, nasty, shouted some awful things and I walked out
He was appalled at the thought I would go on my own for an hour or so
eventually he said that he would rip up my dress to stop me going, and all of my other dresses
He says that I am selfish on a level that he's never experienced before
he cannot see any fault with himself in any way
He says that he has the right to throw me out of his home and call me names
These are things that have been repeated hundreds of times, along with the names
I have 'snidey eyes'
he constantly accuses me of lying. He sneers at me, belittles me constantly and mocks me by repeating what I've said in a childish voice.
he felt he was in an abusive relationship, that I was an abusive person
He says that anger is the only emotion that I can't destroy so it's all he has to use
He has isolated me from friends and family
disliking my friends, saying that it's disrespectful to see them
He judges me on things that I simply haven't done
He's called me a whore, a slut and many other things
I curb my own tongue all the time so that we don't fight
I've reached the point where my self-esteem is so low that the only people who make me feel like a decent person are my daughters
I feel undervalued, worthless and not special in any way in the slightest
My friends and family hate him because I've relayed some of his behaviour

A list of 45 things! And as in your OP this is just the tip of the iceburg!
Just don't do it to yourself anymore, please!

DeMaz · 25/06/2014 16:33

Reading your First post, OP, I am genuinely exhausted. How on earth can you call that a relationship? It's awful!

Get out! Get out! Get out!

Deverethemuzzler · 25/06/2014 16:48

You are deluding yourself if you think your children are not being affected by this relationship.

Being exposed to DV is now classified as being put at risk of significant harm by Children's Services.

For a reason.

If you were aware that someone was abusing your children would it not destroy you, no matter how much you were loved?

All the love and money in the world will not prevent a child being terrified that their mother is going to be killed.

hellsbellsmelons · 25/06/2014 16:50

I rely heavily on their smiles, hugs and pictures that they draw to make me feel ok

You say they aren't affected.
But this is a lot of responsiblity to put on the shoulders of your children.
It's their actions and their responsibility to make you feel OK!
That is soooo sooooo sad!

EhricLovesTheBhrothers · 25/06/2014 16:52

I rely heavily on their ... pictures that they draw to make me feel ok

Bollocks they don't know about it! Why do they draw you pictures to make you feel ok? Because you're sad, tearful or stressed and they can see it?

Preciousbane · 25/06/2014 17:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

FellReturneth · 25/06/2014 17:07

Lwegi's ost at 13.59 is brilliant.

FellReturneth · 25/06/2014 17:09

And I completely agree with Morris about the knickers.

FatherJake · 25/06/2014 17:17

OP, I'm sorry that amongst the sea of people criticising your relationship you seem to have taken particular exception to my comments.

Oh well. Your insistence on continuing this abusive relationship is so ridiculous given the short two year time span as to be laughable. And while I'd love to laugh about your smug insistance that your kids are fine, sorry but only a reckless idiot could fail to understand that a kid's wellbeing is instrinsically linked to their mother's happiness and security. But go ahead, it's very sad to outsiders but you clearly love the drama...

BanjoKazooie · 25/06/2014 17:18

HellsBellsMelons Kudos for taking the time to compile that post. It's a shocking list, isn't it.

OP. I'm glad you feel your DC are protected from this 'relationship'. I disagree that you are keeping them secure - being in a relationship where you are physically abused is hardly a secure environment for your kids. They need you to be safe and happy too. You have severe depression and whilst I know it's perfectly possible to be a great parent and have severe depression it's hardly the optimum situation. I don't know if you would have depression if he wasn't about but you write as though you think it is???

What do you think your children would want you to do if they knew and understood what you put up with from this nasty man? Do you think they will be grateful that you put on a brave face for them or do you think they would prefer you to get out of the relationship and prevent yourself from being abused.

I would have absolutely hated my mother to be with a man like your 'D'P. I would have felt horrible guilt if I thought she may have stayed with someone like your 'D'P because, and I quote your post " They adore him; he's extremely good with children "

I still find your replies almost unbelievable. Confused Sad Are you unduly concerned about what people think of you? Is it pride that is making you want to stay with him?

If he lives 2 hours away how often do you get to see him? It's almost impressive Hmm that you can get into so many bad situations with him when I can't see how you can be in his company all that much.

I'm curious as to what 'type' of person he is in general? If you don't mind telling us I would be interested to know his background, education, age etc (obviously, I understand if you want to be vague and protect your privacy) I would also be interested to know more about your background.

You say that he has done a lot for you? Is this financial? Do you feel you 'owe' him?

I understand that some people get trapped in abusive relationships (money, kids, houses, marriage etc) but I don't see what is keeping you in this relationship.

FellReturneth · 25/06/2014 17:19

Seriously Jusdtont if you have read all of this thread back (and mostly your own words, as recapped by hellsbellsmelons ) and you still don't think it's a priority to leave him immediately then you don't need us, you need a psychiatrist.

BanjoKazooie · 25/06/2014 17:22

I bet this thread gets zapped..

Swipe left for the next trending thread