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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Pretty desperate (v.v.v.long)

205 replies

JustDontWantToSay · 24/06/2014 00:06

It's taken me weeks and weeks to pluck up the courage to post here. I am doing this out of utter desperation. I've hesitated because my DP would be so furious if he found out - the fury I could cope with but he would mock me too, i.e. "oh you think you're hard done by after what you've done," etc., etc. and I find that the most cutting thing of all.

Sorry - I think this may be quite a long post.

Basically I'm not sure whether I'm in an abusive relationship or not. Or whether I'm the problem. Please, please be honest if you reply - I need to know whether I'm going mad or not.

We've been together 2 years. I don't really want to describe the incidents to date because it will out me, but I don't see an alternative if I want valid opinions. I'm a strong character, he's a strong character. We had a complicated start but we knew that we wanted to be together and we worked hard to do that. It was very stressful for lots of different reasons, we really didn't have the best start.

Around 3m into the relationship he lost his temper after a party one night, threw me against a wall and onto a bed, gripped me so hard I bruised and threw me out of the front door of a hotel room into the snow wearing nothing but my knickers. I was only out there for a few seconds though and then he opened the door again. We were both drunk and tension was high. He was mortified the next morning and swore that he'd never do it again. A few weeks later we had an argument in a hotel and he smashed a wineglass in his hand. I left.

Over the next few months we had dramatic highs and lows. The highs were the best days of my life and the lows were the worst. We had a couple of big arguments where he got slightly violent (smashing things, pushing me up against a fireplace and he held a glass against my neck threatening to smash it into me - though this is something he completely denies. Maybe I imagined it. I'm not sure. It was a vivid memory at the time.) In his defence I have to say that I would have been antagonising him by arguing with him. At that point I wasn't one to shy away from a disagreement. His point throughout the relationship has been "you don't know when to stop". His jealousy was getting out of control too. He once marched me home from a bar, physically manhandling me. I didn't want to go elsewhere, but he made it clear that I was within his physical control. On another occasion we were in a restaurant and there must have been something going on; all I remember is him saying "I've seen you look at that table of blokes once, I've seen you look twice, now you do it a third time" - very threateningly. I just stared down at my hands as it was safest after that.

A short while later we split up. Before that, we had some vicious fights (always drink-related, Saturday night, emotions boiling over sort of thing) and I called the police twice, probably unnecessarily and he holds it against me to this day, calling me 'mad', 'attention seeking', etc.

Three times we had a 'last night' together because he was going to end it with me. After the split I was diagnosed with severe depression. Medication helped. We got back together and all was fine until Christmas. We had an argument one night and he locked me out of his house (I had no key, live two hours away) and I stayed in the pub and became aware that there was a table of three blokes next to me and they were talking about something that interested me. To my huge embarrassment now I was so drunk that I went over, joined their table and their conversation for a bit. I can honestly say that by this point I was absolutely desperate for non-judgmental company. Desperate. I would never have gone on to do anything else under any circumstances. Over Xmas I think what happened was that he got annoyed that I was having fun at my parents' without him (he had his own plans) and on Boxing Day I was late to see him (maybe an hour, maybe a bit less, because I was packing) and we had an enormous fight in a car park where he literally screamed at me for an hour or more in public about this pub incident that he had got to hear of. Again, I didn't help matters by trying to slap his face once with a bunch of keys in my hand. To this day he accuses me of punching him with a bunch of keys, and whilst they were in my hand I genuinely didn't intend them to touch him. It was a fraught situation and I made a mistake.

There have been a few incidents since then, too many to recall exactly, but one saw me going to the pub to use the wi-fi to submit some work and because he'd been out all afternoon (I was unreasonably annoyed) I decided to stay there. In retrospect I was crying out for attention and care. Again, I joined a table of people (male and female) and stayed there for a couple of drinks. Not having eaten and drunk far too much I ended up absolutely wasted, left my ipad behind the bar in lieu of paying because I couldn't find my card and stumbled back to his house. His view on the whole night had been "Well, fuck you, if you're out, I'm going out."
In the morning I told him where I'd been and he went ballistic. He threw me and my stuff out of his flat, I wasn't dressed and he made me get dressed in a communal stairwell. He literally threw my bags down the stairs. He said that I was completely disrespectful and selfish. We fought badly that day, but I had behaved appallingly by staying out and getting drunk. He thinks that a woman shouldn't be in a pub on her own.

On another occasion he got angry and threw my shoes out of the window into the road, meaning that I had to go out barefoot to the middle of a busy road and pick them up. The humiliation was horrible. A few weeks ago I drove to see him after a fight and found him in a bar, he was very drunk. He was absolutely horrible to me and threw me physically out his flat and took back the key he'd given me and I had to sleep in my car overnight. He apologised profusely the next day and was sincere in regretting it.

So now we get to this period of time and it's been a rollercoaster. In brief: he is extremely suspicious and jealous, he needs to know all my passwords, if I use my phone when he's not next to me he accuses me of being 'sneaky'. He regularly goes through my phone and computer, etc. and flies off the handle if he sees anything he doesn't like (old photos, etc.) If I use any form of social media he is instantly suspicious and disapproving. He says that I've caused it by lying to him. I do admit that I have lied - but it was only ever about stupid stuff (is that coat new? No, type thing) I know that doesn't justify it.

Over the last few weeks I have been diagnosed with anxiety and have new meds (they're working well). He has been making a big effort to drive to see me rather than the other way around and we've had some spectacular times. We were aiming to spend our lives together and whilst I was totally comfortable with that idea, he wasn't and the pressure was always on - if I put a foot wrong then I wouldn't be a suitable wife. He's always yelled insults at me, but recently he's got really nasty - he's called me a scumbag, a disgusting cunt, a fucking awful person, a complete fucking joke, basically run me into the ground. He says that he only says those things when I am behaving like a disgusting cunt or whatever (this isn't language I would normally use btw). He says that I don't know when to stop and that's why he gets so angry. This weekend I really wanted to go to a special, one-off event which we had planned to attend together, but it had been sold out but a last minute opportunity came up. I was all excited and began making plans to see if we could go and he got immediately cross at one of my ideas (he said that I was 'palming my child off on anyone who would have her' - I'd suggested her staying with someone as an IDEA, it wasn't fixed or a definite plan in any way and I wouldn't have done anything if it wasn't in her best interests.) He got aggressive, nasty, shouted some awful things and I walked out. He said he couldn't go to the event because he had nothing ti wear (specific dress needed) He was appalled at the thought I would go on my own for an hour or so - it was my last chance to see one friend before she moves abroad and a whole group of girls were going who I am friendly with. I really wanted to go,.He later admitted that he'd lied to me about not having clothes because I hadn't walked in immediately and asked him if he wanted to go. I assumed that his previous desire to attend still stood. I wasn't sure all day about going or not and eventually he said that he would rip up my dress to stop me going, and all of my other dresses, though he later said that he wouldn't actually have done it. So I missed the event. He blamed me hugely for 'fucking off and doing whatever I wanted' when I walked out because he was being so verbally abusive. He denies this, but every time I came back he went down the same path and I was trying to make a stand.

Last night was the final straw. Too boring to go into but basically his point was that I have no right to complain about anything he does because of what I've done (nothing not detailed here). He says that I am selfish on a level that he's never experienced before (hand on heart, I'm just a normal person), I'm rude on a daily basis (I'm not at ALL) and he cannot see any fault with himself in any way. He says that he has the right to throw me out of his home and call me names, though he admits it isn't nice. These are things that have been repeated hundreds of times, along with the names. He accuses me of being deliberately deceitful, manipulative, spiteful, that I have 'snidey eyes' and many other things. When I argue he shouts that I'll "say ANYTHING" to win a point (I don't) and he constantly accuses me of lying. He sneers at me, belittles me constantly and mocks me by repeating what I've said in a childish voice. This morning I began to tackle him very gently about his behaviour, knowing that I couldn't take any more, and he turned around and said that he felt he was in an abusive relationship, that I was an abusive person, that I lied and manipulated and controlled him, that I had damaged him completely, that I'd ripped him apart and left his self-esteem at rock bottom, that I was calculated and nasty and would stop at nothing to make sure that he was hurt. Nothing could be further from the truth but he just doesn't see it. He says that anger is the only emotion that I can't destroy so it's all he has to use. I promise that I am just a normal woman, going about my normal life and trying to be the best partner that I can to him. I don't do anything that he accuses me of but he just can't see it. He remains determined that I'm this awful person. He says that I 'suck the life out of him', that being with me is an awful thing. He has isolated me from friends and family but hating me going out with friends, disliking my friends, saying that it's disrespectful to see them. He doesn't believe that I haven't slept with some of them. I just cannot tell him anything. He makes his mind up and that's that. He judges me on things that I simply haven't done. He's called me a whore, a slut and many other things.

What he said this morning has floored me. Am I abusive?? How?? I try every which way to look after him - doing all his washing, cooking for him when I can, giving him drinks and vitamins, tidying his flat, doing little things that he likes and I curb my own tongue all the time so that we don't fight. Now I've reached the point where my self-esteem is so low that the only people who make me feel like a decent person are my daughters. I rely heavily on their smiles, hugs and pictures that they draw to make me feel ok. I am often frightened by him - I know he would physically overpower me if he wanted. I feel undervalued, worthless and not special in any way in the slightest. He says that this is exactly how he feels. The name-calling really upsets me for some reason. They're only words but they do upset me. My friends and family hate him because I've relayed some of his behaviour. He's cross about this and says that I painted him in a certain light and focussed on the bad bits rather than the good.

Flip side? I do love him, I understand he's damaged in some way and we do have some wonderful times. He's done a lot for me.

That's it I guess. Sorry it's so long. I'd be grateful for any feedback. Has anyone else been in this position? What should I do? I am totally isolated, no friends or family nearby. I have no-one to confide in.

PS. The alcohol usage is going to leap out at you. I'd just like to say that we don't drink heavily or every day and it isn't a problem. It just seems to have fuelled fights in the past - so we cut it out.

OP posts:
MorrisZapp · 24/06/2014 11:40

What do you think of all the other advice op, which is unanimously that yes, it's abusive, and that you should end the relationship?

Is this what you plan to do?

This man isn't a good father, or great with your kids. He's an actor. If he holds a broken glass to their mothers neck then he thinks as little of them as he does of you.

Your kids are young and easy to please. When they are older they will have opinions of their own, and will argue with adults. At this point you dont want a man in their lives who uses violence and humiliation to punish his family.

Also as they get older they will hear and notice things, or people will say things to them, like I saw your mum drunk in her pants, or I saw your stepdad screaming in a car park.

You can't live two lives forever.

MellowAutumn · 24/06/2014 13:55

I find it very disturbing when people post reams of abuse and conflict and then when challenged a little say oh but the children never see anything , they adore him, life apart from (being hurt,abusing alcohol,ea ECT) is wonderful. Do you think children do not have ears or eyes ? Their understandings of how relationships works is most formed when they are 0-3.

Thumbwitch · 24/06/2014 14:43

HAving just watched "Murdered by my boyfriend" on BBC iPlayer, I heartily recommend it to the OP. Although doubtless she, like so many others, would look to find the differences rather than the similarities, so she can say it's not like that for her. :(

Matildathecat · 24/06/2014 15:10

I'm not surprised you feel so low. Until you walk away you won't feel better. His jibes about you being abusive seem to have touched a raw nerve for you. Please don't enter into any further debates with him about this or anything else. Discuss the whole thing with your counsellor.

Your girls sound lovely. Concentrate on them and cut this person out of your life. You do not need him.

And, fwiw, please do look after yourself, drinking to excess and joining groups of unknown men is quite dangerous.

SocialMediaAddict · 24/06/2014 15:26

Leave him. He's dangerous and abusive.

Would you be happy if your daughters were in a relationship like yours? Definitely not. Dig deep and find the strength to stop contact.

somedizzywhore1804 · 24/06/2014 15:35

I was an used mentally and physically for almost eight years by an ex partner. He was married and my teacher and "gave up" his marriage and career for me. Something he reminded more or less every hour on the hour for eight years. He was an alcoholic and he beat me, sexually abused me and tortured me. I loved him intensely but the whole eight years were terrible and I am sure have shortened my life. I was in a constant state of stress. When the relationship ended I had a nervous breakdown and wasn't healthy again for almost four years.

So much of your post reminded me of what I went through.

A few things leapt out for me here:

  • the drunken fights. One or both of you sound like you have a problem with drink. Not saying you're alcoholics but you can't handle the amount you're drinking around one another. It's fuelling the madness.
  • "He says that I don't know when to stop and that's why he gets so angry". My abusive ex would say this pretty much word for word. He would add that I was "too clever" to argue with as whatever he said I would "twist his words".
  • that he says he's the abused one. Again very reminiscent of my EA ex. Sometimes we would practically have competitions to see who had been more wronged by the relationship.
  • that he is "damaged". Aren't we all, tell him to sort his problems out by obtaining some professional help rather than engaging in this car crash.

You need to get the fuck out of this. I can't be any blunter. I was stupid but I was 14 when it started and didn't have any children. I'm guessing you're older than 14 and you have a responsibility to your children. I will put this in bald terms so you get it OP: if you do not leave now one of you will end up dead and it will probably be you. I'm not saying that for dramatic effect. My abusive ex nearly killed me because he was mad, violent, had no boundaries and was strong as an ox.

I repeat: leave. Now. Today.

QueenofallIsee · 24/06/2014 15:37

He is an abuser. Please leave him.

KoalaDownUnder · 24/06/2014 15:45

OP, you need to leave him.

There is no 'working through it' in this kind of situation. Trust me. You are doing yourself irreparable damage.

Bonnefoi · 24/06/2014 15:50

I'm not sure if it matters who is abusing who and the how's and whys of it. You're bad together. End of story. Sad

Try to think about it from the point of view of any children involved, and then end it. For their sake, if not your own.

BranchingOut · 24/06/2014 16:03

I fear for your life and your safety. The violence you describe is terrifying and there is a very real danger that he will one day kill you.

There is a feature on the BBC website with the stories of the women and children who were killed through domestic violence in one month last year.

Read it, but don't shed a tear - use that as the catalyst to get yourself away from this man.

wyrdyBird · 24/06/2014 16:06

There is no flip side to this. He is abusive, and dangerous, and has already escalated to physical violence. He also gaslights you.

You need to get yourself out of this relationship. Talk to Women's Aid if you don't know how, or are still not sure if it is abuse, or feel you need support.

He says that anger is the only emotion that I can't destroy so it's all he has to use. - this is meaningless BS, of course. Most of what he accuses you of is projection; ie he accuses you of what he does himself.

Please, for your DC sake, get yourself away.

BanjoKazooie · 24/06/2014 16:07

You may not be dependant on alcohol but you have clearly said that alcohol fuels your fights. Call it what you want but I think the advice to stop drinking still stands.

It's sad that your last thread is so defensive. You have chosen to address the more, umm, opinionated replies but none of the countless other, more constructive ones. I suppose it's understandable that you need time to think about this. It's been going on for such a long while that it's not surprising that you are looking for ways to minimise the seriousness of the situation.

I would like to repeat the fact that the behaviour within your relationship is NOT NORMAL. Trying to work out who's fault it is, why it's happening etc is pointless. You simply need to end it now for you and your children's sake.

I don't know how you could possibly be thinking of a long term relationship with this man. It's great your kids are not aware of anything untoward now but that can not possibly continue as they get older.

You need to put your children first.

BanjoKazooie · 24/06/2014 16:10

Typo. I meant your last POST not your last thread Confused

KellyElly · 24/06/2014 16:11

I had a relationship like this back in my 20's. Lots of pissed up fights and arguments. Me pushing him, him pushing me as far as it would go and then having great periods of love and calmness before the storm hit again. We made the mistake of getting married, but thankfully there were no kids in the mix. Finish it now. No counselling/working at it etc can change things. Too much madness has gone on. You do sound like you have a problem with your emotions when you drink btw, as did I. Stay away from volatile characters like him in the future and be with someone you work with...or alone. Surely that's got to be better than this toxic mess.

LumpySpacedPrincess · 24/06/2014 16:12

Get off the merry go round. Stop analyzing and soul searching and just face the facts. All the time you are with this tosser is a wasted day.

I think you may be a bit addicted to the drama. People often confuse abuse with passion, jealousy with caring.

What are you going to do next?

GarlicJuneBlooms · 24/06/2014 16:29

You are not an abuser. You've done some slightly daft things out of desperation, as you yourself recognised, for some positive attention. The other daft thing you've done is repeatedly expecting an unstable & unreasonable person to behave like a sane, normal one.

I've just posted this on another thread. It's from www.heartless-bitches.com

In expressing his own internal anger, he targets his partner. But because she has done nothing to "deserve" his anger at this point (or any point!), he may be rude, brutally inconsiderate, condescending, patronizing, or even use the "silent treatment" to get her upset or angry. When his partner gets upset, and an argument ensues, he can then express his anger at her, and blame the fact that she "got angry" at him, for the whole argument - even though HE started it. Don't let him convince you that your anger at his disrespect and emotional cruelty, is somehow wrong or abusive to him. That is part of his control and escalating cycle of abuse technique.

As part of this "control" technique, the abuser may "set up" his partner, pushing as many buttons as possible to get the partner to lose control by breaking down in tears or getting angry or yelling. If you raise your voice, he will insist that YOU are the abuser. Don't buy it, and don't believe it. While there might be better ways to handle the situation, (more easily enacted if you weren't emotionally involved with this person), chances are that he has inflicted so much psychological warfare that you have been backed into an emotional corner, and are reacting in self-defense. Emotional reactions in self-defense to an abusive situation do NOT make YOU an "abuser".

YouAreMyFavouriteWasteOfTime · 24/06/2014 16:33

surely you would chose the welfare of your children above a relationship with this man in the blink of an eye?

so this is what you must now do. put them first

no one who hears your story thinks you cannot protect them from this relationship. you are in denial.

JustDontWantToSay · 25/06/2014 00:12

I've had messages from him today - basically saying he loves me sorry for hurting me and saying he forgives me..!!! He also chased when I didn't read them immediately and asked where I was and why I wasn't reading them. I did reply and challenged all aspects of his bad behaviour - he hasn't responded since.

I can't remember who posted but yes - he often says "oh you think you're so clever, twisting what I say" and every time I try to point out something he does he exclaims "No, that's you!" It's frustrating to the point of madness when it really isn't. He seems incapable of recognising his own behaviour.

Why is that??

OP posts:
MorrisZapp · 25/06/2014 00:19

Do you want to stay in this relationship? I can't really see the point of analysing an abusers behaviour. He is what he is, and has demonstrated it countless times.

You don't need to understand it, you need to move on and leave this drama behind you.

BanjoKazooie · 25/06/2014 00:22

What are you trying to achieve by replying to him and feeding the drama? Hmm Do you want to continue the 'relationship'? Do you still think there might be a happy ending?

I'd block his number/delete him from Facebook etc if I were you.

somedizzywhore1804 · 25/06/2014 00:33

JustDontWantToSay It was me, I think, who mentioned the "you think you're so clever" line being wheeled out.

I echo the others who say DON'T bother trying to analysis his behaviour. Why does he do it? Why does he do anything.... In an attempt to manipulate and control you. That is literally his only motivation for anything. I guarantee. This is all about him having ultimate power.

Do not engage. Walk away. I don't care if he sends you a million messages and a thousand carrier pigeons. This is hopeless and won't end with anything other than heartbreak at best. Please listen to me and the scores of other women on this thread who have experienced what you're talking about and know the deal.

Zazzles007 · 25/06/2014 01:31

"He seems incapable of recognising his own behaviour. Why is that??

Because he is lying to himself and refusing to see the reality of his own bad behaviour. Human beings are uniquely situated [as opposed to other organisms] to lie to themselves and twist reality to whatever suits their particular thought patterns. He would rather transfer the blame to you and [literally] use you as his punching bag to abuse as he sees fit. This is not a man you should be in a relationship with.

Thumbwitch · 25/06/2014 04:19

He sort of does recognise his behaviour - but he projects it out onto you because he can't possibly be responsible for behaving like that himself, so it must be you doing it, not him.

KoalaDownUnder · 25/06/2014 05:13

He knows what he's doing, and he'll keep doing it as long as you let him.

He doesn't love you; he loves controlling you. He might think he loves you, but that's only because his definition of love is warped and fucked up.

Pity him if you want to, but you need to cut contact with him. Now.

FellReturneth · 25/06/2014 05:47

Why bother replying and challenging 'all aspects' of his behaviour? That sounds like a pretty lengthy conversation of texts and it just leaves the door wide open again. Stop engaging. Stop trying to fix it, to analyse it, to cling to it. JUST STOP! Send him an email today that says something like:

You say that you love me and forgive me, but I am still not sure that I have done anything that requires your forgiveness. I am quite sure that whatever 'real love' is like, it should not be like this. It should not involve so much anger, or cruelty or contempt or fear. We seem incapable of stopping the drunken fighting, you rip me to shreds verbally, you destroy my confidence and you threaten me with violence. It really doesn't matter whether you think my behaviour justifies it or not, I just don't want to do it anymore.

We are toxic together and there can be no long term future for us. Given that I cannot ever seem to make you happy for more than a few days or weeks at a time I think we should call it a day.

I am not prepared to try to change to be good enough for you, I'd rather be left alone to be the person I am.

I have realised I am setting my daughters a bad example by clinging to a dysfunctional relationship that confuses me and saps me of all confidence. I need to concentrate on my children and on rebuilding my self esteem, which is pretty shattered right now. I am tired of feeling frightened by you.

*Goodbye.'

I think that length is about right. Too brief and vague, like 'We are over. Please don't contact me.' and it sounds like an attention seeking hissy fit requiring him to arrive on the doorstep with flowers and a tear in his eye.

But don't be tempted to make it too long either, don't get too bogged down in specifics about the past. And whatever you do, don't ask questions. Keep it closed and to the point. Don't say anything that sounds like a invitation for him to explain, or apologise or mend things.

If he has a key to your place ask for him by text or email to post it back immediately and you do the same. If you don't receive it within days then change the locks.

And then BE STRONG and go no contact, for as long as you can possibly manage. You need to stay away from him so that his immediate inevitable anger (prompted by you taking control back) can subside, and for you to feel mentally stronger. First of all he'll panic, cry, beg, and try to see you or call you constantly. Then he'll back off in a sulk and wait for you to crumble and go running back. DISAPPOINT HIM.

I suspect he will not go down without a fight, and he will probably turn up unannounced, so it may be unavoidable to have that final difficult conversation, but try to avoid it for as long as possible. The longer you leave it, the stronger you will feel. And if it must be done, do it in the daytime, in a busy public place with no alcohol.

You HAVE to do this, you know you do.