DP directing aggressive panic attacks at me

[Sapphire18]

Sorry this is long - basis of it is my partner having panic attacks which are in the form of very aggressive behaviour. Here are the details:

I am looking for advice on a recurring problem with my fiancé. We have been together for 9 years and got engaged a few months ago. It was in the third year of our relationship (when we first lived together) that I first experienced him having a kind of panic attack in which he becomes very aggressive towards me. It has never got to the point of actual violence but this has happened several times and is always extremely scary, upsetting and leaves me feeling really shaken up and tearful. About two years ago it really got to the point where I gave him a sort of ultimatum and he did a stress management course. It seemed to help as he learned coping mechanisms like going for a walk when feeling stressed, and spotting the triggers / warning signs. Since he did the stress management course there have been considerably fewer of these incidents (e.g. once every 6-9 months?) however last night it happened again. The previous incident was 5 months ago.

To give you an idea of what actually happens – it’s usually triggered by his frustration that I am not listening to him / he can’t control or change something. E.g. the previous incident was his frustration at not being able to stop me feeling depressed. Last night it was that he thought I was not listening to him when he was trying to explain to me about a DIY problem we’ve been having.

He uses his physicality to stop me leaving the room when I am trying to end a conversation calmly or storm out in an argument. I have tried to explain I am using the same technique he learned in stress management but he thinks I am dismissing the conversation we’re having.

Last night I told him I didn’t want to talk about the DIY as he was using a very patronising tone with me (and it was almost midnight and I wanted to get ready for bed). He blocked me from leaving the room to go to the bathroom. I repeatedly asked him to move and he refused, saying he wanted to make me understand the DIY problem. I felt trapped and got up on the bed to get out of the room by a different route. He jumped up on the bed and held his arms around my legs so I couldn’t move. I told him he was hurting my knee (which is recovering from a bike accident) and he refused to let go. I repeatedly asked him but he wouldn’t so I pinched his ear and kicked him and hit him. Not hard enough to really hurt but as a warning / to make him let me go. He didn’t let go and got me down on the bed, I calmly told him I would count to 10 and then he was to let me go. I was really starting to panic but I thought if I do I will really lash out and then we’ll both get hurt, plus I am already injured from my bike accident. He let me go on 10 and I went to leave the room but he stood in the doorway and said he wouldn’t let me until I listened to him.

By now things were calmer and we were talking rather than shouting. I told him he must not ever use his physicality over me like that. He was still focused on our disagreement over the DIY and I told him that was so minor by comparison – what I was now concerned at was his bullying behaviour. I was quite assertive that he must never ever do that (but I’ve said that before). I thought we’d de-escalated things and then I can’t remember what happened but he flipped out having one of his panic attacks. When this happens he adopts a really weird tone of voice, sounds really unstable and a bit crazy; he told me I don’t love him, I want him to hurt himself, I want him to kill himself; he threw himself around the room and I was afraid he’d hurt himself or break something; he banged his head against the floor; ripped at his clothes until he was half naked; writhed on the floor and curled up in a ball with panicked breathing and sobbing; demanded I hold his hands to make him feel safe; refused my offer of rescue remedy but then took it. These behaviours are all absolutely typical of when he gets like this. I didn’t know what to do but basically took the attitude I would with a tantruming toddler – being firm yet supportive, and trying to get him out of it without showing any emotion. However I was really torn as I didn’t want him to think behaving in this way is the way to control me or get my attention. I couldn’t seem to do anything right, whether I went near him or backed away. I was desperately trying to calm him as I was afraid he’d wake our housemates and I know when he gets like this he doesn’t care who’s watching and has no shame.

In the end I left him curled up in a ball on the floor and told him I was going to the bathroom but would come back. I was really shaken and panicky and didn’t know what to do. He was begging me not to leave him. When I returned about 2 minutes later he was in bed sobbing, saying he was only asking me to hold his hands because he felt so scared and panicked, and making out I’d been really heartless. I told him he’d really scared me, it was unacceptable and he should be in control of himself. He told me panic attacks just happen – I have experienced them too but I don’t think they necessarily mean lashing out at someone else! Then he was very apologetic, but I couldn’t stand to have him hug me, it just made my skin crawl.

I tried to sleep but couldn’t stand being near him, so tried to go to the spare room. He told me I shouldn’t; that he should; took my pillows off me so I couldn’t leave with them; begged me to stay. We tried again to talk but I was exhausted by now and said we should just go to sleep. He told me I am the one who holds all the power in this relationship, and that he did touch me when he was stopping me leaving the room, but it’s the closest we get to any intimacy these days. Admittedly we do have less sex since moving into a shared house.

This morning he told me he’d been up most of the night having panic attacks, and had to go for a walk to calm down at 5.30am (I did hear him go out then). He was very apologetic, asked me for a hug then got upset when I couldn’t bring myself to. He protested that he hasn’t got like this for ages (it used to happen much more regularly). He suggested we do relationship counselling ‘before we make any commitments’ – i.e. marriage (we’ve talked of this before) and I think it might be a good idea. I am a bit worried at the cost at an average of £50 though, and a little scared at what we might end up saying to one another.

I just don’t know what to do. Whenever this happens I ask myself what I am doing in this relationship. It makes me feel so vulnerable and frightened, and I don’t know what to do. I think he thinks that because he stops short of actually hitting me, it’s ok, or that because he’s panicking when he does it it’s not his fault. When I call it abusive he says I’m exaggerating. I desperately want him to be able to promise me it’ll never happen again but he says he can’t. I am really happy with the relationship otherwise, and excited to be marrying him but I am wondering if this can be overcome or if I should go on accepting that effectively I am with someone who’ll blow up like this from time to time?

Just to confirm, I am not looking for advice to leave him. I am looking for help in managing / eliminating this behaviour and how to address this issue.

And what Cogito is saying. :)

Not panic attacks OP.

My ex fiancé did this. He had a heart condition and he used it to control me. He'd get angry and try get his own way. When it didn't work he would fake an attack with his heart to get me to do what he wanted. It's control and it's abuse and you are kidding yourself if you think it's anything else. Also once he has you married it will get worse.

I know you wanted advice to stay with him but I think you would be making a mistake. My ex fiancé ended up trying to strangle me.

Lancelottie That's interesting that your DS' behaviour sounds similar.
I don't know how old he is but if he's quite young he might just still be learning how to contain and manage his own feelings. There are all kinds of reasons he might find this difficult and without knowing far more about the situation I can't comment. (Also my field is adult trauma survivors and I don't work with children so others may be more qualified to comment on your situation.)

Young children are still learning, for the first time, how to manage difficult feelings. This is radically different to an adult who has never learned how to manage them (for whatever reason but usually because of poor parenting at best and often extreme abuse and neglect) and has developed compensatory mental structures (for example a dissociative identity) in order to function as an adult.

I think what I'm saying is that if your DS is 30, Lancelottie, he probably has some psychiatric issues. But if he's young, as it sounds like he is, then he's still learning how to regulate his own feelings (with the help of the caring adults around him) and his behaviour has nothing to do with trauma.

Sapphire to be crass, he's either mad, or bad, or possibly both. The episodes sound psychotic ie that he is delusional. Relate is for relatively sane and rational people to sit down and have someone mediate their relatively sane and rational debates. I really don't think it's going to help.

The only way I think you could use it is as a bargaining chip ie that'll you trot along once he's seen the GP to be referred to the Mental Health team.

I worry though about you having this conversation tonight, in case it turns into another attack of paranoia (which I think it partly is, rather than panic - his whole world ie you against him). Is there somewhere in the house that would be safer to have the conversation, where he can't get physical? Could you suggest going out? To be honest, that might be quite interesting. If he's genuinely ill, the attack would come on in a restaurant in the same way it comes on in a bedroom, he shouldn't have control of it. If it only happens behind closed doors, to me that would suggest him just not being nice.

My exH was like this. Hair pulling and pinching to wake me up for attention. He self medicated with booze which obviously made things worse. We trotted along to Relate and he just used that as something to batter me with, misquoting in arguments 'she said I was right!' etc. Relate are just well meaning, calm mannered, nice people to act as a couple's sounding board. They're not qualified to diagnose serious mental conditions (which exH had, it transpired, and his family had disguised from me that he's been in a psychiatric unit as a teen), nor even to pass comment on someone's behaviour. They won't say 'I don't think you should do that Mr Sapphire', they'll just ask you to talk about how it makes you feel, and then ask him how he feels hearing you so upset, hoping that'll make him see the error of his ways and stop.

I think this is a classic case of you detaching with compassion, I'm afraid. Priority number one is you to be safe, which is probably not with him at the moment. I know you came on here originally to ask how to care for him during his episodes, but this isn't a toddler tantrum and you aren't his mother. This is very probably a medical condition and in the same way we can't advise you on how to cure cancer, we can't advise on how to calm down someone in a psychotic rage and nor would we advise anyone to be present while someone else is in a psychotic rage.

Priority two is then, and only then, to make sure he knows that you love him, but that he needs to get help if you are to have any sort of future. Don't deliver this news in the bedroom and then think he'll let you leave. Be somewhere safe, and then tell him. Sorting out priority number one might be the shock of reality he needs to get help. Your staying is simply delaying him getting better, as he's currently using you as his coping mechanism.

I wish you strength, courage, resolve and, most of all, safety. It's hard to see someone you love all broken. But you must NOT let him break you in the process.

The 'no previous long-term relationships' stands out to me. That kind of explains why you haven't realised how out of the ordinary this is, and how far removed from the usual 'let's work at it' relationship.

You have no obligation to work at this, or try to fix it, or be 'responsive', or try to find him the answer.

I say this with a heavy heart because as I said I can see similar signs in DS, whom I love dearly and do have an obligation to help.

Crossed with you, Manatee. He's 18 -- intelligent, autistic, often lovely, sometimes terrifying. We are battling with the void between children's and adult psych services at the moment.

What do I do when we sit down to talk tonight though???

Perhaps suggesting while you are not adversed to going to Relate with him in the future, but HE needs help/support from proffessionals for his anger/panic attacks before that.

He needs to seek help from his doctor about himself before you can anything as a couple.

But please have your phone ready to coctact the police in a pocket should he act like last night.

Lancelottie I'm sorry - I should have specified in my previous post that this kind of behaviour in an otherwise NT adult is often the sign of trauma. Individuals with autism or ASD need a different frame of reference.

Your situation sounds very tough

OP - I said before that I have no advice on your relationship but reading a bit more I think stinkingbishop's advice is pretty sound. Regardless of whether or not you still love this man, the only way you can help him while taking care of yourself is to get right away. The ball needs to be in his court to sort himself out; if there is any viability to the relationship after that then you can take a view then. But in the first instance you need to get yourself clear of this situation.

Like I said Sapphire, have the chat by all means but in a public space. You're ina shared house, yes? So in the lounge? Or smile and suggest going out for a meal and then if he kicks off a) there are witnesses to help you UNnormalise all this and b) you can get yourself off somewhere else.

OP with respect you're still approaching this as though you're dealing with a reasonable man when everything you've written suggests the opposite. Simply act as normally as possible - whatever that looks like - but start working on a safer future for yourself at the same time. If he goes to the GP, is diagnosed and treated for whatever condition he is suffering from and in time can be shown to be 100% improved with no relapses... maybe that will change things. But, in the meantime, assume that these episodes are deliberately designed to terrorise you and that they will get more frequent, closer together and more intense.

I suspect from past experience that he'll be all apologetic rather than aggressive and I will be tearful. He was apologising from when I woke up this morning.

I can see how it's going to go - he suggests Relate; I say he needs to get MH help himself; he argues that that's saying I'M nothing to do with it, when he perceives the situation to be to do with our relationship / my treatment of him.

What do I do when we sit down to talk tonight though???

Why don't you learn to stand up and say "no" to going to Relate ? Because in a way, you just told us here that you were shaking, and it is through talking with us that you have calmed down. Why don't you suggest to him that you also need to calm down and take stock, and not jump into Relate session asap ? To me, it does not sound like you have a good grasp of the situation at the moment. You definitively need this for yourself to be honest. If he is a grown adult, he would respect this. Don't feel guilty for wanting to make yourself feel secure.

If he has nothing to do with it and the relationship is in this much trouble then no change is forecast. That's the problem. In three months, if nothing happens to the contrary, you are committing yourself to a lifetime of this and worse... Are you convinced yet that you won't be getting married or are you still holding out for a miracle? Are you convinced yet that you should not be under the same roof as him?

I can see how it's going to go - he suggests Relate; I say he needs to get MH help himself; he argues that that's saying I'M nothing to do with it, when he perceives the situation to be to do with our relationship / my treatment of him.

That is his perception, and anyhow, you are both young. It does not matter who is right or who is wrong. If both of you are suffering, especially to this large extent, then you need to depart. That's it. No arguing. There is no point. The question is whether either of you can make this grown up adult decision and not be emotionally drawn back or be guilt tripping one another back into this habit and routine that you guys have got here. Learn to say no and step away.

Well I'd be telling him to move out to give you some space.
That he needs to get some help and work on HIS problems.
The fact he is blaming you speaks volumes!
This is controlling and very abusive behaviour.
Have your phone to hand though because he may well kick off when he realises his manipulation and abuse won't work anymore.
But..... Sadly - I don't think you are there yet.

You wanted help to stay and sort it.
No-one on here is going to advise you to stay with an abuser.
The only amount of acceptable abuse in a relationship is NONE!!!!

You should contact Womens Aid as already suggested.
They may be able to help you to remove the scales from your eyes.

This is NOT good.

This is NOT normal.
You should NOT be in a relationship with this man.
You should NOT even consider marrying him.

Stay safe though. Womens Aid can help you with an exit plan.

Unfortunately OP, through no fault of your own, you are enabling his behaviour, you need to stop doing so and that means leaving this person to deal with his own shit and then attempt a relationship, he just isn't ready to be in an adult relationship yet and you can't give him what he needs.

let him go and discover his own issues and deal with yours, you don't deserve this.

Never underestimate his capacity for aggression.
Only it's masked as panic attack.

TBH I wouldn't sit down and have a big talk.

He doesn't sound equipped or willing to listen to you.

You have to decide what you want to do, tell him, then stick to it.

If he is genuinely contrite he will accept it.

If he is abusive he won't, but in this case there's no point in trying to have a rational conversation anyway.

I have seen apologetic change to demanding over a door threshold. :(

TBH I would pack a bag and go stay with a friend or relative for a few days, OP. Then while you're out of the situation, decide what you want to do and tell him. This is past the 'talking it through' stage.

I can see how it's going to go - he suggests Relate; I say he needs to get MH help himself; he argues that that's saying I'M nothing to do with it, when he perceives the situation to be to do with our relationship / my treatment of him.

You don't have to buy into his perception. My toddler thinks I am extremely cruel when I don't give him chocolate. It doesn't mean I am. His perception is in some ways irrelevant. You have a right to be safe. You are not safe. You are not obliged to fix this, stay with him, marry him, or have children with him. You are not obliged to fix him.

If you think counseling would be useful then seek it out for you . You need some prospective on the situation away from his opinions and perceptions.

Agree, theres no point talking it through. There's no reasonable starting point if he feels that you are responsible for his abusive outbursts.

Make your own plans and stick to them.

he perceives the situation to be to do with our relationship / my treatment of him -- but that suggests he thinks he's right to react as he does.

Does he think that it is OK to grab, barricade and physically threaten someone? Ignoring the question of how you were 'treating' him, does he think that's OK, and it's just a question of how quickly you resort to it?

Oh god love, I was you. Your posts (the ripping at his clothes, general mad look) rang so many bells.
He used his 'illness' to control, I'd walk on egg shells so as not to make him have an attack. 'It will be ok when he's better' I'd say to myself. Only it wasn't better, it wouldn't get better. He disgusted me after too, he'd use it to control sex too 'I just need to feel loved and close to you'.
Looking back I don't believe he was ill at all, it was all to control and for years it worked.

What got me out was a chat with his mum, his dad was the same and I suddenly realised 20 years from now I would be here, three kids later. She told be to go. So I did. It wasn't easy at all but gosh life is better now.