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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

DP directing aggressive panic attacks at me

794 replies

Sapphire18 · 09/06/2014 11:20

Sorry this is long - basis of it is my partner having panic attacks which are in the form of very aggressive behaviour. Here are the details:

I am looking for advice on a recurring problem with my fiancé. We have been together for 9 years and got engaged a few months ago. It was in the third year of our relationship (when we first lived together) that I first experienced him having a kind of panic attack in which he becomes very aggressive towards me. It has never got to the point of actual violence but this has happened several times and is always extremely scary, upsetting and leaves me feeling really shaken up and tearful. About two years ago it really got to the point where I gave him a sort of ultimatum and he did a stress management course. It seemed to help as he learned coping mechanisms like going for a walk when feeling stressed, and spotting the triggers / warning signs. Since he did the stress management course there have been considerably fewer of these incidents (e.g. once every 6-9 months?) however last night it happened again. The previous incident was 5 months ago.

To give you an idea of what actually happens – it’s usually triggered by his frustration that I am not listening to him / he can’t control or change something. E.g. the previous incident was his frustration at not being able to stop me feeling depressed. Last night it was that he thought I was not listening to him when he was trying to explain to me about a DIY problem we’ve been having.

He uses his physicality to stop me leaving the room when I am trying to end a conversation calmly or storm out in an argument. I have tried to explain I am using the same technique he learned in stress management but he thinks I am dismissing the conversation we’re having.

Last night I told him I didn’t want to talk about the DIY as he was using a very patronising tone with me (and it was almost midnight and I wanted to get ready for bed). He blocked me from leaving the room to go to the bathroom. I repeatedly asked him to move and he refused, saying he wanted to make me understand the DIY problem. I felt trapped and got up on the bed to get out of the room by a different route. He jumped up on the bed and held his arms around my legs so I couldn’t move. I told him he was hurting my knee (which is recovering from a bike accident) and he refused to let go. I repeatedly asked him but he wouldn’t so I pinched his ear and kicked him and hit him. Not hard enough to really hurt but as a warning / to make him let me go. He didn’t let go and got me down on the bed, I calmly told him I would count to 10 and then he was to let me go. I was really starting to panic but I thought if I do I will really lash out and then we’ll both get hurt, plus I am already injured from my bike accident. He let me go on 10 and I went to leave the room but he stood in the doorway and said he wouldn’t let me until I listened to him.

By now things were calmer and we were talking rather than shouting. I told him he must not ever use his physicality over me like that. He was still focused on our disagreement over the DIY and I told him that was so minor by comparison – what I was now concerned at was his bullying behaviour. I was quite assertive that he must never ever do that (but I’ve said that before). I thought we’d de-escalated things and then I can’t remember what happened but he flipped out having one of his panic attacks. When this happens he adopts a really weird tone of voice, sounds really unstable and a bit crazy; he told me I don’t love him, I want him to hurt himself, I want him to kill himself; he threw himself around the room and I was afraid he’d hurt himself or break something; he banged his head against the floor; ripped at his clothes until he was half naked; writhed on the floor and curled up in a ball with panicked breathing and sobbing; demanded I hold his hands to make him feel safe; refused my offer of rescue remedy but then took it. These behaviours are all absolutely typical of when he gets like this. I didn’t know what to do but basically took the attitude I would with a tantruming toddler – being firm yet supportive, and trying to get him out of it without showing any emotion. However I was really torn as I didn’t want him to think behaving in this way is the way to control me or get my attention. I couldn’t seem to do anything right, whether I went near him or backed away. I was desperately trying to calm him as I was afraid he’d wake our housemates and I know when he gets like this he doesn’t care who’s watching and has no shame.

In the end I left him curled up in a ball on the floor and told him I was going to the bathroom but would come back. I was really shaken and panicky and didn’t know what to do. He was begging me not to leave him. When I returned about 2 minutes later he was in bed sobbing, saying he was only asking me to hold his hands because he felt so scared and panicked, and making out I’d been really heartless. I told him he’d really scared me, it was unacceptable and he should be in control of himself. He told me panic attacks just happen – I have experienced them too but I don’t think they necessarily mean lashing out at someone else! Then he was very apologetic, but I couldn’t stand to have him hug me, it just made my skin crawl.

I tried to sleep but couldn’t stand being near him, so tried to go to the spare room. He told me I shouldn’t; that he should; took my pillows off me so I couldn’t leave with them; begged me to stay. We tried again to talk but I was exhausted by now and said we should just go to sleep. He told me I am the one who holds all the power in this relationship, and that he did touch me when he was stopping me leaving the room, but it’s the closest we get to any intimacy these days. Admittedly we do have less sex since moving into a shared house.

This morning he told me he’d been up most of the night having panic attacks, and had to go for a walk to calm down at 5.30am (I did hear him go out then). He was very apologetic, asked me for a hug then got upset when I couldn’t bring myself to. He protested that he hasn’t got like this for ages (it used to happen much more regularly). He suggested we do relationship counselling ‘before we make any commitments’ – i.e. marriage (we’ve talked of this before) and I think it might be a good idea. I am a bit worried at the cost at an average of £50 though, and a little scared at what we might end up saying to one another.

I just don’t know what to do. Whenever this happens I ask myself what I am doing in this relationship. It makes me feel so vulnerable and frightened, and I don’t know what to do. I think he thinks that because he stops short of actually hitting me, it’s ok, or that because he’s panicking when he does it it’s not his fault. When I call it abusive he says I’m exaggerating. I desperately want him to be able to promise me it’ll never happen again but he says he can’t. I am really happy with the relationship otherwise, and excited to be marrying him but I am wondering if this can be overcome or if I should go on accepting that effectively I am with someone who’ll blow up like this from time to time?

Just to confirm, I am not looking for advice to leave him. I am looking for help in managing / eliminating this behaviour and how to address this issue.

OP posts:
Lweji · 15/06/2014 18:31

You can't predict without a crystal ball, but you are essentially betting on a lame horse.
This is not a romance where the lame horse is miraculously cured.
It's real life, and the lame horse may well throw you hard onto the ground and break your spine. There's too much for you to lose.

FunkyBoldRibena · 15/06/2014 18:31

OP - your original post showed us what he did when you didn't agree with some DIY stuff. What do you think he is capable of if you don't agree with his life plan for you?

CookieMonsterIsHot · 15/06/2014 18:34

I haven't stopped thinking about this

Thinking is brilliant.

Education helps you think.

Have you started educating yourself? Have you started reading anything by Lundy? Have you started the online Freedom programme? Did you watch the TED talk posted way down this thread? Have you got your own counsellor?

Or is all of that too scary?

The MNers here could point you at some great resources to help you think.

Do you want us to make some suggestions?

whitsernam · 15/06/2014 18:39

I haven't posted yet because I can see how anguished you are OP, and I do admire your not wanting to give up on a relationship too easily - BUT - the best predictor of future behavior IS past behavior, and his past behavior is abusive toward you. I think he does panic when you don't behave as he wants or thinks he needs you to, and he has no respect that would stop him from behaving in the most amazingly self-abasing and abusive ways. You do need to deal with him in public to keep his self-control active, as he hasn't so far acted out in public.

I was married to an abuser myself, and know how hard it is to leave, but in my case I'd never seen his bad behavior until we were married and I was pregnant. You have seen his behavior before marriage, so I cannot see why you would still go forward with the wedding. People have given you so many ways to present a postponement/cancellation, and yet you still say you can't make up your mind! But the behavior he has shown you has caused you to not have the same feelings of love for him; how can you possibly make serious wedding vows with that lack of feeling? The lack of respect? Surely stopping the wedding will be a relief. Try it; you'll like it.

unrealhousewife · 15/06/2014 18:48

Sapphire if you reread your OP you will know why I put it like that. Your. OP was a vivid picture of someone who is completely unpredictable and uncontrollable. It doesn't make much difference whether he is using the panic attacks to manipulate or whether they are genuine, the level of risk to you is very high, countless DV workers would tell you the same.

I have now read all your posts to see that you have already made steps towards getting out and he hasn't responded violently but that's only because he still knows he's in control.

The moment he thinks he is not is the time to be very cautious and think of your own safety.

If as you say he is an abuser, right now he has very little control of hoe he feels, only how he behaves.

Sillylass79 · 15/06/2014 18:49

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Fairenuff · 15/06/2014 18:49

It's weighing up likelihood of something that's impossible to accurately predict without a crystal ball.

That is why you have to deal with the facts.

6 days ago you and he both believed him to be having panic attacks.

Since starting this post you have been made aware that he has been abusing you.

During that time he has persuaded you that 1) he agrees with you that he is an abusive person and, 2) he will get treatment to change his personality.

Based on that, you think it will be safe to go ahead and marry him.

It's been 6 days. Do you have any idea how long treatment will take? You already know that there is a 70% chance that he won't change.

You need to go on the balance of probability.

How likely is it that he will go from abuser to nurturer in two months? How likely, OP? You don't need a crystal ball to tell you that there is no way that he will change in two months. No way at all.

AdoraBell · 15/06/2014 18:50

You have also said that you have not had sex since the incident on your OP. No great surprise there, violence is not cunducive to a good sex life. Can you really imagine a life time of sex with a person who frightens you?

unrealhousewife · 15/06/2014 18:52

OP what how did your relationship start, can you paint a picture? What made you attracted to him and what do you think he liked about you?

Lweji · 15/06/2014 18:54

Giving up on a relationship too easily would be after one argument, or over a disagreement about DIY(!).
Giving up after even one DV event is never giving up too easily!
It's the right thing to do for you.

Even so, you can give up on a relationship when you want for any reason you want. You are not even married yet, or have children.
You owe him nothing.
If you are not happy you can walk away.

Think of when you will have sex with him. Because it's your honeymoon, even if you're not feeling loving towards him?
Can you marry someone who you have doubts about?
Would you trust him with your life and your happiness right now?

Itsfab · 15/06/2014 18:57

I understand the wanting to be sure. I have gone back to exes after leaving them when they hit me and I am glad I did in both cases as I knew 100% it was over and I had no feelings for them. Just huge relief it was over. If I hadn't finished it when I did I wouldn't be where I am now which is married to an incredible man and with three amazing children.

We are being bossy, frustrated, harsh because we all care about a stranger. Someone we will probably never meet but might actually know without knowing it. Someone we can see cares deeply for someone while not caring enough about themselves.

Life appears scary when you are contemplating changing what you have known for the last nine years though we all know you aren't. You are looking for a way to stay with this man and marry him without even realising you will spend the rest of your life holding your breath in case he gets "aggressive" again, worrying that the baby will wake up again and make him cross and then wondering why the hell you didn't get out while you could.

When I was trying to make things work with the man who had hit me I wasn't available to be with the man who became my husband. There was about three weeks in it and it could have changed the whole of my life as I have known it for the last 18 years.

While you try and fix the unfixable and deny what you know to be true you will never meet the man who would cherish you, make you feel loved, safe and secure and who will always, always respect you.

HeffalumpsnWoozles · 15/06/2014 19:06

I've suffered from panic attacks on & off for 20 years or so. What you are describing is not a panic attack. I get angry & irritable if I'm anxious about something but there is no way it would ever manifest itself in this way. There is definitely something ekes going on here. He isn't panicking when forcing you to listen to him, only when he doesn't get his own way then using the attack (which IMO comes on from a build up of emotion/rage he can't control) as an excuse for his awful behaviour.

He really needs professional help, good luck I hope he gets what he needs.

unrealhousewife · 15/06/2014 19:09

Cookie Monster is right, try to educate yourself. The thread Support Thread for those on emotionally abusive relationships has some excellent links in the OP.

unrealhousewife · 15/06/2014 19:10

Sorry I can't copy the link! Perhaps someone else can.

boulie · 15/06/2014 19:33

Sapphire, I've just read through this entire thread and felt compelled to say: please don't marry this man.

I could have written your OP a couple of years ago. I was living with my bf and he would have rages every few months, horrible shouting throwing things rages. He would verbally abuse me, all the flags were there from early on.

I ignored them. I loved him and felt that he was troubled, he had a hard life and needed my support. I truly thought I could help him.
I didn't have anywhere else to go, no family or friends I could live with, so I stuck it out.

Then I got pregnant. Now we are married. I am unhappy. It comes in waves, we are okay for a while but then it starts again, always over something trivial.
I'm having counselling and am about to start the Freedom Program. It is abuse. In my fear of leaving, I have condemned my child to a life with someone who shouts and swears at her mother. What hope does she have of doing better if I don't do it for myself?
I can't fix him, it breaks my heart because I care about him but it's the truth. He told me a hundred times that he would get help- he's meet stuck to it.

It's so much harder now we have a child and are married. I look back at myself and want to scream.

Yes, you will losing your dream of marrying him. Yes, you will have to uproot your life by moving out. Yes, it will hurt and you will cry. But my god it will be worth it.
I've lost friends who cannot bear to watch me do this to myself. I'm ashamed, it never gets better.

This thread has nearly 800 replies all singing from the same hymn sheet, please think about that.

You are capable of loving someone else, of having the dream wedding. I totally kidded myself that it would be different but it never is, not long term.

Sapphire18 · 15/06/2014 19:39

I think I am going to postpone.

OP posts:
AdoraBell · 15/06/2014 19:43

It's the right thing to do.

Keep posting, we will still be here for you.

HansieLove · 15/06/2014 20:01

Some space for you would help you think more clearly. It must be very hard to think through things when he is right there.

unrealhousewife · 15/06/2014 20:07

OK, Have you worked out the conditions? Will you live apart in the interim?

Fairenuff · 15/06/2014 20:08

Postpone it for another year Sapphire, give him a real chance to show that he can change. At least a year.

DenzelWashington · 15/06/2014 20:21

It must have been a hellish 6 days for you Sapphire. Please do look after yourself. Eat, try to get enough sleep. Stay with your parents for a couple of days (hope the family event was bearable, by the way). Don;t shut yourself away, however tempting it is.See friends, even if you have to lie about why you aren't on good form.

This thing won't be fixed just like that, you're in for a hard slog of it whatever you decide, so take care of yourself as best you can.

Itsfab · 15/06/2014 20:30

Boulie - just because you didn't leave then doesn't mean you can't change your mind now. Do yourself and our child a favour and get out. You really don't want your child to be you in failed relationship or their father controlling one.

OP - you are giving such short replies. What is going on?

43percentburnt · 15/06/2014 20:35

Sapphire volatile men like your fiancé can become increasingly dangerous. My ex, who had screamed that he hated me and was glad we were splitting up proceeded to try and strangle me when I went to leave. For several minutes I did not think I would leave my house alive.

Oh I had split from him a few years earlier, he promised to go to counselling. Did he go, no of course he didn't, was a token gesture to get me to go back to him.

Softlysoftlycatchymonkey · 15/06/2014 20:38

Yes I noticed that itsfab

AdoraBell · 15/06/2014 20:39

Boulie in terms of your child, it's much better to be from a broken home than to grow up in one. And you know it's broken.

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