DP directing aggressive panic attacks at me

[Sapphire18]

Sorry this is long - basis of it is my partner having panic attacks which are in the form of very aggressive behaviour. Here are the details:

I am looking for advice on a recurring problem with my fiancé. We have been together for 9 years and got engaged a few months ago. It was in the third year of our relationship (when we first lived together) that I first experienced him having a kind of panic attack in which he becomes very aggressive towards me. It has never got to the point of actual violence but this has happened several times and is always extremely scary, upsetting and leaves me feeling really shaken up and tearful. About two years ago it really got to the point where I gave him a sort of ultimatum and he did a stress management course. It seemed to help as he learned coping mechanisms like going for a walk when feeling stressed, and spotting the triggers / warning signs. Since he did the stress management course there have been considerably fewer of these incidents (e.g. once every 6-9 months?) however last night it happened again. The previous incident was 5 months ago.

To give you an idea of what actually happens – it’s usually triggered by his frustration that I am not listening to him / he can’t control or change something. E.g. the previous incident was his frustration at not being able to stop me feeling depressed. Last night it was that he thought I was not listening to him when he was trying to explain to me about a DIY problem we’ve been having.

He uses his physicality to stop me leaving the room when I am trying to end a conversation calmly or storm out in an argument. I have tried to explain I am using the same technique he learned in stress management but he thinks I am dismissing the conversation we’re having.

Last night I told him I didn’t want to talk about the DIY as he was using a very patronising tone with me (and it was almost midnight and I wanted to get ready for bed). He blocked me from leaving the room to go to the bathroom. I repeatedly asked him to move and he refused, saying he wanted to make me understand the DIY problem. I felt trapped and got up on the bed to get out of the room by a different route. He jumped up on the bed and held his arms around my legs so I couldn’t move. I told him he was hurting my knee (which is recovering from a bike accident) and he refused to let go. I repeatedly asked him but he wouldn’t so I pinched his ear and kicked him and hit him. Not hard enough to really hurt but as a warning / to make him let me go. He didn’t let go and got me down on the bed, I calmly told him I would count to 10 and then he was to let me go. I was really starting to panic but I thought if I do I will really lash out and then we’ll both get hurt, plus I am already injured from my bike accident. He let me go on 10 and I went to leave the room but he stood in the doorway and said he wouldn’t let me until I listened to him.

By now things were calmer and we were talking rather than shouting. I told him he must not ever use his physicality over me like that. He was still focused on our disagreement over the DIY and I told him that was so minor by comparison – what I was now concerned at was his bullying behaviour. I was quite assertive that he must never ever do that (but I’ve said that before). I thought we’d de-escalated things and then I can’t remember what happened but he flipped out having one of his panic attacks. When this happens he adopts a really weird tone of voice, sounds really unstable and a bit crazy; he told me I don’t love him, I want him to hurt himself, I want him to kill himself; he threw himself around the room and I was afraid he’d hurt himself or break something; he banged his head against the floor; ripped at his clothes until he was half naked; writhed on the floor and curled up in a ball with panicked breathing and sobbing; demanded I hold his hands to make him feel safe; refused my offer of rescue remedy but then took it. These behaviours are all absolutely typical of when he gets like this. I didn’t know what to do but basically took the attitude I would with a tantruming toddler – being firm yet supportive, and trying to get him out of it without showing any emotion. However I was really torn as I didn’t want him to think behaving in this way is the way to control me or get my attention. I couldn’t seem to do anything right, whether I went near him or backed away. I was desperately trying to calm him as I was afraid he’d wake our housemates and I know when he gets like this he doesn’t care who’s watching and has no shame.

In the end I left him curled up in a ball on the floor and told him I was going to the bathroom but would come back. I was really shaken and panicky and didn’t know what to do. He was begging me not to leave him. When I returned about 2 minutes later he was in bed sobbing, saying he was only asking me to hold his hands because he felt so scared and panicked, and making out I’d been really heartless. I told him he’d really scared me, it was unacceptable and he should be in control of himself. He told me panic attacks just happen – I have experienced them too but I don’t think they necessarily mean lashing out at someone else! Then he was very apologetic, but I couldn’t stand to have him hug me, it just made my skin crawl.

I tried to sleep but couldn’t stand being near him, so tried to go to the spare room. He told me I shouldn’t; that he should; took my pillows off me so I couldn’t leave with them; begged me to stay. We tried again to talk but I was exhausted by now and said we should just go to sleep. He told me I am the one who holds all the power in this relationship, and that he did touch me when he was stopping me leaving the room, but it’s the closest we get to any intimacy these days. Admittedly we do have less sex since moving into a shared house.

This morning he told me he’d been up most of the night having panic attacks, and had to go for a walk to calm down at 5.30am (I did hear him go out then). He was very apologetic, asked me for a hug then got upset when I couldn’t bring myself to. He protested that he hasn’t got like this for ages (it used to happen much more regularly). He suggested we do relationship counselling ‘before we make any commitments’ – i.e. marriage (we’ve talked of this before) and I think it might be a good idea. I am a bit worried at the cost at an average of £50 though, and a little scared at what we might end up saying to one another.

I just don’t know what to do. Whenever this happens I ask myself what I am doing in this relationship. It makes me feel so vulnerable and frightened, and I don’t know what to do. I think he thinks that because he stops short of actually hitting me, it’s ok, or that because he’s panicking when he does it it’s not his fault. When I call it abusive he says I’m exaggerating. I desperately want him to be able to promise me it’ll never happen again but he says he can’t. I am really happy with the relationship otherwise, and excited to be marrying him but I am wondering if this can be overcome or if I should go on accepting that effectively I am with someone who’ll blow up like this from time to time?

Just to confirm, I am not looking for advice to leave him. I am looking for help in managing / eliminating this behaviour and how to address this issue.

This only happens with me (as far as I know)

Yes, and that is not because only you see the real him, or he trusts you enough to lower his guard, or any other reason that he tells you.

It only happens with you because you are the person he is seeking to control and have at his disposal to abuse.

My abusive former friend was very very good at being the victim. Despite being a massive man, he could persuade a whole room he was just one great big ball of hurt and his gf/ex of the moment was putting him through hell. He always left out the part about him holding them tightly by the neck until they stopped moving.

Do you still want to marry him? Why? Is a marriage filled with punctuated like this (and potentially, worse ones) good enough for you? Why?

Please understand that you can't 'fix' your fiance. If he wants to change for the better, he has to do it himself.

Sapphire - is there anything else connected to these outbursts? Any perceived misbehaviour on your part? Does he take drugs or misuse alcohol?

This only happens with me (as far as I know).

This tells you all you need to know. Genuine panic attacks happen in front of anyone. He is directing this behaviour at you.

There is NO SHAME in calling off the wedding or telling other people. NONE. My step-son called off his wedding with 2 months to go because of a serious problem in his relationship and he only got love and understanding as a result.

Imagine how your friends or family would feel if you were hurt and they didn't help because you didn't tell them you needed them. They would be devastated.

The fact he thinks you are exaggerating just proves how little he wants to change.

Do it. I am sure that you know what you need to do.

Even if this started around year 3 when it happened, and it was indeed a "panic attack" at that point in time. He should have from that point onwards owe it to himself to figure out all the triggers that are causing him to panic, and remove them. But from what you wrote here, it does not sound like it. Continuously being in this fearful state only causes a person to self protect. i.e. lash out. Or to self control too extremely and not harm others by harming themselves instead. You wrote that it has been 9 years. So within that past 6 years since it started, he has not managed to control this, and he has bluntly and directly stated that he is not even in a position to be able to control it, without the possibility of harming you. Cos he does not even trust himself. Can you not see what he is saying here ? You guys need to break up.

The other thing is, whether he wants someone to talk to or not, point him towards say the Samaritan. You cannot be that counselling person any longer, and nor should you be to begin with. He needs to find his feet and gain back his own boundary and structure to his own life.

I meant to say also...the fact that it only happens with you is very telling. That's because it is designed for you.
If he is able to control himself elsewhere, you may sure that it's all for your benefit alone. To keep you in line.

So tell him that you're pleased he wants to talk to someone but say that that person has to be a GP. Of course you're ashamed to tell your friends, that's part of the manipulation. Has he begged you in the past not to share his terrible secret with anyone?... One way abusive men isolate their victims is by getting them to collude with the abuse and keep it all under wraps.

You need to tell someone. You've been very courageous just writing it all out on here and that's an important first step... breaking the silence and articulating out loud what's been going on. You could talk to your own GP - they have to treat what you say confidentially. You could talk to Womens Aid 0808 2000 247 - they have heard your story a lot of times and can offer advice. But if you tell someone close like a mother or a best friend that will make it all 'real' and, even though you find that idea daunting, you need a bit of reality here. You need real people on your side before you make a big mistake.

I'm no expert, and I freely admit that. However what I suspect is happening is that he is using Relate the same way he used the stress management course. It isn't to stop him behaving like he does, it's to show you that you should be feeling sorry for him, to find reasons why it is all about him and to get you to accept his behaviour.

A panic attack is awful - I've had them and I thought I was going to die, no word of a lie. However the whole thing wasn't a panic attack. It was someone desperate to have you pay attention to them PAY ATTENTION TO THEM PAY ATTENTION TO THEM and they will do a lot to keep you in that situation.

Think about what triggered the thing. It wasn't that you were horrible, or that he was being shouted at or that you were threatening. It was because you were not paying enough attention to him about the DIY. You are not allowed to have your own feelings or choices. You are not allowed to not be part of this. You have to stay, take the abuse, take the shouting, you have to stay if you feel frightened, you have to stay even if it risks further damage to the leg and then you have, have, have to feel sorry for him.

This need to have you desperately hanging onto his words is not likely to go away. My guess is that it is going to escalate and if you are married and are 'legally his' then it will really get a lot worse.

What prompted the proposal? Was it after one of these attacks?

Does your DP have a history of childhood trauma OP? And does he remember the content of these episodes after them? I'm not excusing his behaviour - which sounds very frightening - but the 'panic attack' you describe sounds more like a dissociative flashback of some kind than a panic attack to me (I'm a psychotherapist).

People who have experienced severe traumatic abuse as children can (especially when under stress) snap into a dissociative state in which they relive some or all of their earlier experiences - which they may or may not be able to recall when in their 'normal' state of mind. I have seen people do this. It's not necessarily calculated to abuse or control, though I can see how it might look like this is the intention.

I don't have any advice for you about whether to carry on in the relationship, though I second the poster who said that Relate is not the solution at this stage as he does not sound stable enough to make use of it. It sounds as though your DP has some serious psychiatric issues, hinting at a history of childhood violence and/or abuse, and would advise in the strongest possible terms that you encourage him to see a therapist who specialises in trauma.

The only advantage in going to Relate is that you'd get a record of his abuse.
And I am openly calling it abuse because he doesn't do it to anyone else. Because he knows anyone else would call the police on him.
I'm sure he gets stressed at work and in his daily life, but he is choosing to be violent with you.

About shame: he should be ashamed, not you!

You should be proud of recognising his abuse and to be able to walk away from it.

Your friends will rally around you and, hopefully, will not let him come close to you again.

I hope you leave, but be careful when you do it. That is the most dangerous time for a woman. You should leave when he's not around, and then let him know, or at least have a friend with you while you do it.

Finally, please do not let the excitement about the wedding cloud your judgement. It's easy to get the rose tinted glasses on when planning a wedding, but think carefully about the actual marriage.

(been there, done that, got stung :( )

I understand what people are saying about this possibly not being a matter for Relate. However I am inclined to go with the fact he wants to talk to someone. Surely Relate will advise if it is not appropriate?

Not necessarily. If you go to Relate together, the counsellor there will be seeing you both - you will both be her/his clients. From what you've described, he sounds manipulative and abusive and he may well play a particular role in front of other people. Sure, he should see someone on his own, but not the two of you together. Really.

And you'll notice that his pain/feelings/frame of mind is paramount, whereas yours is of no regard. You're 'exaggerating', yet you must hold his hands after he has abused you, to make him feel safe.

There aren't enough s to convey what I make of that.

OK. I have a husband who has panic attacks and I have them myself too.

Panic attacks can manifest with anger but the anger is self-directed. I've seen my husband have a panic attack where he gets angry with himself and the panic means it's hard for him to calm down. He has been known to shout during these. He has had help and spent a lot of time working to get better and they are extremely rare for him now. Basically he wasn't really taught how to manage his anger as a child and is relearning it all.

The difference is he never blames me. He knows he has a problem, he takes responsibility, he removes himself from the situation and goes away to calm down. Afterwards we talk it over a team and figure out what feelings were going on and what triggered the panic.

What I don't like about your situation is that he is blaming you. It is not your fault. He is 100% responsible for his feelings and actions, not you. You deserve not to be the target of anyone's anger.

The pressure of the imminent wedding will not help. Look into cancelling, postponing. This will make it clear you are serious and give you both time and space to work on your relationship. He needs to get help for himself. It's his journey. I can't see Relate would hurt (it's space for you to talk about the effect of HIS problems on your relationship) but he needs to additionally seek out some proper therapy, perhaps anger management just for him and he needs to take responsibility for his behaviour.

"a little scared at what we might end up saying to one another." These things whatever they are need saying to each other and discussing before marriage. They exist. Suppressing won't make them go away, getting them out in a supportive environment with a professional will mean you have a chance to resolve them.

For advice in the moment: You've said you're not looking to leave him, so I won't tell you to, only that if you do, you are entirely justified. However:

I would tell him that the next time he has one of these panic attacks you will need to leave him to deal with it alone for the sake of your mental health. You are not his therapist. When he has an episode, leave the house. The fact that he is trying to stop you leaving the room terrifies me. It should terrify him. Leave him in no doubts about how serious this is and that it's his problem not yours. He needs to step up - it's not your problem to 'manage' it's his to fix. Consider taking a step back in the relationship and moving to live in different houses while he sorts himself out.

Manatee, I'm not for a moment doubting your knowledge here, but it also sounds exactly what DS goes through -- and I'm not traumatising him or exposing him to traumatic situations, so far as I know. So is it also possible that a very anxious person can 'self-traumatise' into this state?

I'm so sorry you're going through this - but as everyone else has said these aren't panic attacks. And labeling them as such is a sorry excuse.

I know you don't want advice to leave but you have your whole life ahead of you. My guess is his abusive behaviour will just get worse. If you're planning to marry I really hope you're not thinking of bringing children into your family. It really wouldn't be fair on them. Sorry it that sounds harsh, I don't mean it to be.

@Manatee - that is very interesting to hear. The only childhood traumas I can think of are that when he was 9 his baby sister died at birth and I don't think his parents ever properly explained, even to this day. It caused a lot of disruption including the whole family moving overseas and him going to a school where he didn't fit in and was slightly bullied. Also he has told me a few times about his father who is ex-army being very authoritarian towards him when he was a child, but there was not physical abuse.

Interestingly, his mum is an early years teacher and told me a little boy at her nursery really reminds her of my DP - she told me this little boy is autistic and bangs his head on the floor when he's upset.

Can anyone advise me on what I should do tonight, when we've said we'll discuss this and look into going to Relate?

I desperately want to be responsive to him wanting to get help because I am praying it is the answer.

He has said I am the problem - not listening to him, being controlling, having the power in the relationship. I don't think any of this is true but if he sees the problem as to do with the relationship perhaps I need to be responsive to this (which probably means Relate)?

I wonder if a little more background would help with the context? You say you've been together nine years, how did you meet? What kind of ages are you and is there a big age-gap? Was anything significant or traumatic going on in either of your lives at the time? Had either of you been in long-term relationships before? Do you work in a caring profession?

A close friend of mine cancelled a wedding at 8 weeks notice, simply because he had a change of heart and was frightened of making a mistake. All of his friends and family supported him, despite any loss to themselves. Your situation is much more worrying than my friends was, nobody will judge you at all. They will realise how strong you are.

I have had panic attacks btw, they are not directed outwardly and they happen without notice.

@Cogito - together 9 years, met at uni. We're the same age (29). Been steady for the whole 9 years. No trauma. No previous long term relationships. Not working in caring profession.

The little boy is autistic and bangs his head when he is upset at school. Wee soul.

Your dp does not go to work and bang his head on the floor. He only does that at home.

I don't think they are similar at all. I might if I was clutching at straws though....

"Can anyone advise me on what I should do tonight, when we've said we'll discuss this and look into going to Relate? "

Tell him very clearly that Relate is not the appropriate forum for panic attacks as severe as you describe, that you are very worried about him and that you want him to talk to a doctor instead. You can even say that you are concerned enough about your own 'controlling' behaviour to get individual counselling if you like. That way you can keep him off guard because I think you should be planning your exit, confiding in someone and postponing the wedding but keeping that information very quiet indeed. Should he get wind that anything's up the next 'panic attack' could be fatal.

What would happen if he went to the GP though? I think they'd probably refer him to Talking Therapies which I've accessed before and which is probably no better placed to deal with it than Relate?

It's unimportant what happens at the GP really. It's simply to give you time to get away

If he went to the GP, he might be referred somewhere.
If you talked about it with the GP, he'd probably refer you to the police.

First, big hugs. You know that this isn't right, you are probably shaky from the attack (on you, not the 'panic attack') and the whole of mumsnet has gone, 'fuck! this is really serious'. It is that bad. People are giving strong advice because it is soooo bad.

So, holding on to those hugs, why do you have to go along with something that is part of his insistence that you are the problem? You are not legally obliged to go to Relate with him. You are not legally obliged to stay in a relationship with him. In fact he is legally obliged to let you leave the room if you want to.

My suggestion (as someone who is not an expert) is to be kind to yourself, stall for time and call 101 and ask for the police domestic violence team. Describe to them what happened. I am sure that they will confirm that this is really that bad.

I would also try and work out how to get out of a room before he traps you there. Because that is really, really bad. It is not seeing you as someone who can have their own feelings - and that means that he feels that he can do what he likes to you.

More hugs.