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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

DP directing aggressive panic attacks at me

794 replies

Sapphire18 · 09/06/2014 11:20

Sorry this is long - basis of it is my partner having panic attacks which are in the form of very aggressive behaviour. Here are the details:

I am looking for advice on a recurring problem with my fiancé. We have been together for 9 years and got engaged a few months ago. It was in the third year of our relationship (when we first lived together) that I first experienced him having a kind of panic attack in which he becomes very aggressive towards me. It has never got to the point of actual violence but this has happened several times and is always extremely scary, upsetting and leaves me feeling really shaken up and tearful. About two years ago it really got to the point where I gave him a sort of ultimatum and he did a stress management course. It seemed to help as he learned coping mechanisms like going for a walk when feeling stressed, and spotting the triggers / warning signs. Since he did the stress management course there have been considerably fewer of these incidents (e.g. once every 6-9 months?) however last night it happened again. The previous incident was 5 months ago.

To give you an idea of what actually happens – it’s usually triggered by his frustration that I am not listening to him / he can’t control or change something. E.g. the previous incident was his frustration at not being able to stop me feeling depressed. Last night it was that he thought I was not listening to him when he was trying to explain to me about a DIY problem we’ve been having.

He uses his physicality to stop me leaving the room when I am trying to end a conversation calmly or storm out in an argument. I have tried to explain I am using the same technique he learned in stress management but he thinks I am dismissing the conversation we’re having.

Last night I told him I didn’t want to talk about the DIY as he was using a very patronising tone with me (and it was almost midnight and I wanted to get ready for bed). He blocked me from leaving the room to go to the bathroom. I repeatedly asked him to move and he refused, saying he wanted to make me understand the DIY problem. I felt trapped and got up on the bed to get out of the room by a different route. He jumped up on the bed and held his arms around my legs so I couldn’t move. I told him he was hurting my knee (which is recovering from a bike accident) and he refused to let go. I repeatedly asked him but he wouldn’t so I pinched his ear and kicked him and hit him. Not hard enough to really hurt but as a warning / to make him let me go. He didn’t let go and got me down on the bed, I calmly told him I would count to 10 and then he was to let me go. I was really starting to panic but I thought if I do I will really lash out and then we’ll both get hurt, plus I am already injured from my bike accident. He let me go on 10 and I went to leave the room but he stood in the doorway and said he wouldn’t let me until I listened to him.

By now things were calmer and we were talking rather than shouting. I told him he must not ever use his physicality over me like that. He was still focused on our disagreement over the DIY and I told him that was so minor by comparison – what I was now concerned at was his bullying behaviour. I was quite assertive that he must never ever do that (but I’ve said that before). I thought we’d de-escalated things and then I can’t remember what happened but he flipped out having one of his panic attacks. When this happens he adopts a really weird tone of voice, sounds really unstable and a bit crazy; he told me I don’t love him, I want him to hurt himself, I want him to kill himself; he threw himself around the room and I was afraid he’d hurt himself or break something; he banged his head against the floor; ripped at his clothes until he was half naked; writhed on the floor and curled up in a ball with panicked breathing and sobbing; demanded I hold his hands to make him feel safe; refused my offer of rescue remedy but then took it. These behaviours are all absolutely typical of when he gets like this. I didn’t know what to do but basically took the attitude I would with a tantruming toddler – being firm yet supportive, and trying to get him out of it without showing any emotion. However I was really torn as I didn’t want him to think behaving in this way is the way to control me or get my attention. I couldn’t seem to do anything right, whether I went near him or backed away. I was desperately trying to calm him as I was afraid he’d wake our housemates and I know when he gets like this he doesn’t care who’s watching and has no shame.

In the end I left him curled up in a ball on the floor and told him I was going to the bathroom but would come back. I was really shaken and panicky and didn’t know what to do. He was begging me not to leave him. When I returned about 2 minutes later he was in bed sobbing, saying he was only asking me to hold his hands because he felt so scared and panicked, and making out I’d been really heartless. I told him he’d really scared me, it was unacceptable and he should be in control of himself. He told me panic attacks just happen – I have experienced them too but I don’t think they necessarily mean lashing out at someone else! Then he was very apologetic, but I couldn’t stand to have him hug me, it just made my skin crawl.

I tried to sleep but couldn’t stand being near him, so tried to go to the spare room. He told me I shouldn’t; that he should; took my pillows off me so I couldn’t leave with them; begged me to stay. We tried again to talk but I was exhausted by now and said we should just go to sleep. He told me I am the one who holds all the power in this relationship, and that he did touch me when he was stopping me leaving the room, but it’s the closest we get to any intimacy these days. Admittedly we do have less sex since moving into a shared house.

This morning he told me he’d been up most of the night having panic attacks, and had to go for a walk to calm down at 5.30am (I did hear him go out then). He was very apologetic, asked me for a hug then got upset when I couldn’t bring myself to. He protested that he hasn’t got like this for ages (it used to happen much more regularly). He suggested we do relationship counselling ‘before we make any commitments’ – i.e. marriage (we’ve talked of this before) and I think it might be a good idea. I am a bit worried at the cost at an average of £50 though, and a little scared at what we might end up saying to one another.

I just don’t know what to do. Whenever this happens I ask myself what I am doing in this relationship. It makes me feel so vulnerable and frightened, and I don’t know what to do. I think he thinks that because he stops short of actually hitting me, it’s ok, or that because he’s panicking when he does it it’s not his fault. When I call it abusive he says I’m exaggerating. I desperately want him to be able to promise me it’ll never happen again but he says he can’t. I am really happy with the relationship otherwise, and excited to be marrying him but I am wondering if this can be overcome or if I should go on accepting that effectively I am with someone who’ll blow up like this from time to time?

Just to confirm, I am not looking for advice to leave him. I am looking for help in managing / eliminating this behaviour and how to address this issue.

OP posts:
Sapphire18 · 09/06/2014 13:41

Thank you everyone, I am still really shaken and teary. We're due to talk tonight. He's texted me saying he's looked up Relate counselling and thinks we should go. I hope it is a chance to sort this, and the fact he's wanting help is a good sign. I am considering printing this thread to show him what others make of this behaviour, do you think that would be a good idea?

OP posts:
HecatePropylaea · 09/06/2014 13:42

No.

It's never a good idea to show someone who is behaving as you describe a thread like this. You have no idea how he would react to it and you are the one who is there and would have to deal with it. I wouldn't recommend you take the risk.

Fairylea · 09/06/2014 13:45

Don't show him the thread. You need somewhere private and safe for you to turn to in order to get help. And I'm sorry but I suspect that you will be back looking for a way to leave him - I'm not convinced he is willing or capable of changing. He doesn't even accept responsibility at this stage.

EhricLovesTheBhrothers · 09/06/2014 13:45

Relate with an abusive man is a terrible idea. Showing him this thread is also a terrible idea. Just don't.

Blithereens · 09/06/2014 13:46

Christ, no. He'll use it as ammunition against you. 'You talk about me to other people, you hate me, you don't love me, everyone thinks I'm a monster, I am a monster, wail wail thump myself around the head, scream shout and terrify you.'

If you want to try therapy that's up to you, but I think you should be living separately in the meantime. It doesn't sound to me like you are safe :(

I am sorry you are going through this Thanks

Itsfab · 09/06/2014 13:47

No. I think it would be a terrible idea.

IsItMeOr · 09/06/2014 13:47

I'm so sorry to hear you're experiencing this.

I'm no expert, but I would suggest you make an appointment with your GP to ask advice about these so-called panic attacks. It doesn't sound right to me (and certainly, my experience of a panic attack I wouldn't have been capable of attacking anybody).

I am pretty sure that, if this relationship is as abusive as it sounds, then relate won't be a good idea:
See this website.

Jan45 · 09/06/2014 13:48

You don't need counselling, he needs serious help and has done pretty much nothing to sort it out. He's abusive OP, not suffering panic attacks.

magoria · 09/06/2014 13:48

Relate is to work on problems in a relationship isn't it?

That is not what this is.

He needs to go to his doctor and tell him fully and in detail what he does.

You cannot help him. If he chooses to accept he has problems you can support him but only professionals and himself can help him.

AvonCallingBarksdale · 09/06/2014 13:50

OP Thanks This is just awful for you. Just some things that come to mind:

  1. Do not show him this thread. From what you've described in your op, this could be very dangerous for you.
  2. Do not go to relate with him. By all means he should seek help on his own, and you if you want to, but not together. Relationship counselling with an abuser will never work. It may, however, give him some sort of moral high ground in his own mind and mess with your head.
  3. These are definitely not panic attacks. He's abusing you, and then desperately trying to find a way for you to feel sorry for him and, therefore, not leave him.
  4. Please leave now, and don't marry him. It is unlikely in the extreme that things will improve. The opposite is much more likely Sad

Good luck

Maisie0 · 09/06/2014 13:52

sapphire18 Take control of this situation and CUT him out of your life.

If you are still shaken then I also advice you that you guys do not stay together in the same place at all tonight, and both of you need to calm down separately, even if it is to clear your head.

You are overthinking "what if" and "why" and "how can I"... Give yourself some peace of mind and separate for a short time and see some perspective on the situation.

HavantGuard · 09/06/2014 13:53

That is not a panic attack. It isn't. At all. It's a temper tantrum from someone who physically restrains you to prevent you getting away from him.

This is not Relate territory.

Lweji · 09/06/2014 13:53

I agree that you SHOULD NOT go to Relate and you SHOULD NOT show him this thread.

You don't need relate. He has to stop HIS behaviour. End of.

And you should be away from him while he sorts himself out. You should not be in any danger while he does it. At the moment you are a target for his aggression and you are in danger.
You are not a mental health professional to deal with this.

Dangerous criminals are put away. Regardless of why they do it. Dangerous mental patients go to specialised institutions, they are not let loose in the community, just because it is a mental health problem.

Does he have those "panic attacks" with anyone else, BTW?
Because if he doesn't, then it's not mental health, it's his choice.

fledermaus · 09/06/2014 13:53

I wouldn't do Relate - you don't have a relationship problem. At best he has a serious mental health problem and at worst he is violently abusing you, both of which are beyond a relationship counsellor's expertise.

TesselateMore · 09/06/2014 13:55

I work with adults with learning difficulties and challenging behaviour and some of our guys with autism sometimes have similar episodes to the "panic attack" where they may self-harm, rip clothes or slap others to reduce anxiety. So it's not impossible some of the behaviour is rooted in anxiety.

However, I'm with everybody else who says you cannot manage it through counselling. We have panic alarms, risk assessments, work as a team and are trained to "safe hold" when necessary. The "panic attack" itself would be recorded as an incident but not be seen as out of the ordinary. The behaviours where he tried to control whether you left the room would trigger a review by managers who would look at whether extra precautions had to be put in place.

The idea that you would try and manage such extreme behaviour as part of a relationship is very concerning to me. Keep yourself safe or you are no help to anyone.

CogitoErgoSometimes · 09/06/2014 13:57

If he has psychiatric problems, Relate is not the place to help him. He needs a referral to a MH specialist and very urgently. As he is abusive, violent and threatening Relate will not make you safer and neither will MH treatment in the short-term. So please get yourself away and safe as a priority and then let him get the long-term help he needs of his own volition. If he loved and cared for you, he would be doing that already. Do not show him this thread. Violent men are particularly dangerous if they think they are about to lose their pet victim and this one is extremely unstable as well as aggressive

LisaMed · 09/06/2014 13:58

Did he offer this sort of thing the last time he did it without you trying to draw the line?

Or is it because he knows that he may have pushed things too far/fast and needs to make you feel more sorry for him so that you will stay and be a punch bag.

Why don't you suggest that you film his next 'panic' attack on your phone so he can see your pov and you can discuss what is going on? It would be really useful to show any counsellor at Relate or the GP. Have a back up phone for when he breaks yours after that suggestion.

LisaMed · 09/06/2014 14:00

Actually, don't suggest filming it - I think he really would attack you seriously at that suggestion. However think about how you think he would react.

CogitoErgoSometimes · 09/06/2014 14:01

The next 'panic attack' could kill her... Hmm Hear what you're saying about proof of assault but I think it's too risky to take the chance of it happening again. The police should have been called on this man a long time ago by the sound of it.

Maisie0 · 09/06/2014 14:03

The self harm is actually not good. The hitting of his own body, and the lack of ability to see himself as a person who has control is not there. Both of you are too far gone in this relationship to be able to save it. Whatever you had before, this is not what it is any more, and you cannot "just fix it". He has to go for counselling or professional help to help him figure out his own triggers and heal slowly. You should not be the one to do this now.

When a person has been pushed to the extreme towards self destruction and they no longer have control of their own self, then this is beyond simple marriage counselling. Both of you need to separate and handle yourselves independently to gain control back of your own identity and sense of self. Together, you are both too intense.

Find a way to stay calm by yourself, and then also to consider breaking up, and also counselling too. Because you are not seeing your own situation as clearly as bystanders here are, because we have not emotionally invested in the situation as you have here.

Lweji · 09/06/2014 14:04

What would you do if you had been attacked like this on the street?
Would you care if the person had mental health problems or not?
Why is this man allowed to treat you like this?

Of course you are scared, and rightly so. He is scary.

pictish · 09/06/2014 14:04

I think it would be a terrible idea OP.

To be honest as soon as I read your thread title I thought "oh no...this woman is in trouble".

There are no panic attacks which cause people to be aggressive and trap their spouse in a room. Those things occur because that is what he wants (and feels entitled) to do to you. To tell yourself otherwise is sheer folly.
There is nothing going on with him that is beyond his own control. All the weeping, writhing and melodrama is just to manipulate you into feeling sorry for him, thus solidifying his role as helpless victim, and yours as obligated care giver, after his abuse has taken place.
It's an arrangement that makes it very difficult for you to assert yourself, so it all works in his favour.

By the way, he sounds like a prize dick carrying on like that. He'd hate being married to me, because I would simply turn heel in disgust and leave him to tear at his clothes alone. Forever.
What a performance. Hmm

Sapphire18 · 09/06/2014 14:05

This only happens with me (as far as I know).
I understand what people are saying about this possibly not being a matter for Relate. However I am inclined to go with the fact he wants to talk to someone. Surely Relate will advise if it is not appropriate?

I feel like the whole world is falling apart. Our wedding's booked for 3 months from now. I have been thinking through friends I could stay with and I feel so ashamed to tell any of them because then if / when we make up and start getting help they'll know about this.

OP posts:
pictish · 09/06/2014 14:09

Do not marry this man. Do not put yourself in a situation where it will be even more difficult to extricate yourself from this unhealthy and exhausting relationship.
It will be a very lucky escape.

Blithereens · 09/06/2014 14:10

But if this was happening to one of your friends, would you think they should be ashamed for you to know about it?

Either he is genuinely mentally ill, or he is abusive. If he's mentally ill, then there's nothing to be ashamed of. Mental illness doesn't discriminate and happens to a huge number of people, and can - in most cases - be treated. On the other hand, if he is just an abusive bastard, you have nothing to be ashamed of. His behaviour is not your responsibility, nor is it your fault. Making their victim feel 'ashamed' to seek help or have anyone know what's going on is the number one thing abusers use to keep their victims from leaving.

If you do go to Relate, he also needs to seek psychiatric care. But I agree with everyone else that you don't have a relationship problem. You have an abusive partner problem.

You must feel so scared and shocked and alone. I feel very bad for you. I know what this is like.

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