DP directing aggressive panic attacks at me

[Sapphire18]

Sorry this is long - basis of it is my partner having panic attacks which are in the form of very aggressive behaviour. Here are the details:

I am looking for advice on a recurring problem with my fiancé. We have been together for 9 years and got engaged a few months ago. It was in the third year of our relationship (when we first lived together) that I first experienced him having a kind of panic attack in which he becomes very aggressive towards me. It has never got to the point of actual violence but this has happened several times and is always extremely scary, upsetting and leaves me feeling really shaken up and tearful. About two years ago it really got to the point where I gave him a sort of ultimatum and he did a stress management course. It seemed to help as he learned coping mechanisms like going for a walk when feeling stressed, and spotting the triggers / warning signs. Since he did the stress management course there have been considerably fewer of these incidents (e.g. once every 6-9 months?) however last night it happened again. The previous incident was 5 months ago.

To give you an idea of what actually happens – it’s usually triggered by his frustration that I am not listening to him / he can’t control or change something. E.g. the previous incident was his frustration at not being able to stop me feeling depressed. Last night it was that he thought I was not listening to him when he was trying to explain to me about a DIY problem we’ve been having.

He uses his physicality to stop me leaving the room when I am trying to end a conversation calmly or storm out in an argument. I have tried to explain I am using the same technique he learned in stress management but he thinks I am dismissing the conversation we’re having.

Last night I told him I didn’t want to talk about the DIY as he was using a very patronising tone with me (and it was almost midnight and I wanted to get ready for bed). He blocked me from leaving the room to go to the bathroom. I repeatedly asked him to move and he refused, saying he wanted to make me understand the DIY problem. I felt trapped and got up on the bed to get out of the room by a different route. He jumped up on the bed and held his arms around my legs so I couldn’t move. I told him he was hurting my knee (which is recovering from a bike accident) and he refused to let go. I repeatedly asked him but he wouldn’t so I pinched his ear and kicked him and hit him. Not hard enough to really hurt but as a warning / to make him let me go. He didn’t let go and got me down on the bed, I calmly told him I would count to 10 and then he was to let me go. I was really starting to panic but I thought if I do I will really lash out and then we’ll both get hurt, plus I am already injured from my bike accident. He let me go on 10 and I went to leave the room but he stood in the doorway and said he wouldn’t let me until I listened to him.

By now things were calmer and we were talking rather than shouting. I told him he must not ever use his physicality over me like that. He was still focused on our disagreement over the DIY and I told him that was so minor by comparison – what I was now concerned at was his bullying behaviour. I was quite assertive that he must never ever do that (but I’ve said that before). I thought we’d de-escalated things and then I can’t remember what happened but he flipped out having one of his panic attacks. When this happens he adopts a really weird tone of voice, sounds really unstable and a bit crazy; he told me I don’t love him, I want him to hurt himself, I want him to kill himself; he threw himself around the room and I was afraid he’d hurt himself or break something; he banged his head against the floor; ripped at his clothes until he was half naked; writhed on the floor and curled up in a ball with panicked breathing and sobbing; demanded I hold his hands to make him feel safe; refused my offer of rescue remedy but then took it. These behaviours are all absolutely typical of when he gets like this. I didn’t know what to do but basically took the attitude I would with a tantruming toddler – being firm yet supportive, and trying to get him out of it without showing any emotion. However I was really torn as I didn’t want him to think behaving in this way is the way to control me or get my attention. I couldn’t seem to do anything right, whether I went near him or backed away. I was desperately trying to calm him as I was afraid he’d wake our housemates and I know when he gets like this he doesn’t care who’s watching and has no shame.

In the end I left him curled up in a ball on the floor and told him I was going to the bathroom but would come back. I was really shaken and panicky and didn’t know what to do. He was begging me not to leave him. When I returned about 2 minutes later he was in bed sobbing, saying he was only asking me to hold his hands because he felt so scared and panicked, and making out I’d been really heartless. I told him he’d really scared me, it was unacceptable and he should be in control of himself. He told me panic attacks just happen – I have experienced them too but I don’t think they necessarily mean lashing out at someone else! Then he was very apologetic, but I couldn’t stand to have him hug me, it just made my skin crawl.

I tried to sleep but couldn’t stand being near him, so tried to go to the spare room. He told me I shouldn’t; that he should; took my pillows off me so I couldn’t leave with them; begged me to stay. We tried again to talk but I was exhausted by now and said we should just go to sleep. He told me I am the one who holds all the power in this relationship, and that he did touch me when he was stopping me leaving the room, but it’s the closest we get to any intimacy these days. Admittedly we do have less sex since moving into a shared house.

This morning he told me he’d been up most of the night having panic attacks, and had to go for a walk to calm down at 5.30am (I did hear him go out then). He was very apologetic, asked me for a hug then got upset when I couldn’t bring myself to. He protested that he hasn’t got like this for ages (it used to happen much more regularly). He suggested we do relationship counselling ‘before we make any commitments’ – i.e. marriage (we’ve talked of this before) and I think it might be a good idea. I am a bit worried at the cost at an average of £50 though, and a little scared at what we might end up saying to one another.

I just don’t know what to do. Whenever this happens I ask myself what I am doing in this relationship. It makes me feel so vulnerable and frightened, and I don’t know what to do. I think he thinks that because he stops short of actually hitting me, it’s ok, or that because he’s panicking when he does it it’s not his fault. When I call it abusive he says I’m exaggerating. I desperately want him to be able to promise me it’ll never happen again but he says he can’t. I am really happy with the relationship otherwise, and excited to be marrying him but I am wondering if this can be overcome or if I should go on accepting that effectively I am with someone who’ll blow up like this from time to time?

Just to confirm, I am not looking for advice to leave him. I am looking for help in managing / eliminating this behaviour and how to address this issue.

The situation is to do with your treatment of him? When you are tired, bored of talking about DIY and ready for bed? You're right, you re not treating him with the total adoration, respect, attention that he feels due to him.

When he comes home tonight, tell him that you've been thinking, and yes, he's rght. Your relationship is not working, you will get counselling, but individual, for you. He should do the same, and/or contact a mental health professional. I bet he will suggest that in fact it is ALL you, nothing to do with him, it's your problem. You are the one who needs to change, to work at the relationship, to do more for him.

I suspect from past experience that he'll be all apologetic rather than aggressive and I will be tearful. He was apologising from when I woke up this morning.

Have you read the above sentence again ? You are telling us here that you can predict what he is going to do, and the pattern of behaviour, and how you would respond to him. Think for a simple moment, why would you want to go back to something or somebody that would make you cry ? Don't you want to be happy in life ?

I can see how it's going to go - he suggests Relate; I say he needs to get MH help himself; he argues that that's saying I'M nothing to do with it, when he perceives the situation to be to do with our relationship / my treatment of him.

So you can already predict how this will go, and you do not try to prevent this situation from happening ? If you do not go, then the above won't happen. Since you already know how you will respond to him regardless. Now do you see why we say that your relationship is "too" far gone ?

Most people if they are mindful and focused, will listen to one another and then ACTION out what was agreed. Only if those actions make one another feel more safe in the relationship. And continue to be together and protect one another's interest. Sometimes if someone has harmed us an awful lot, we don't give in to their whims, and we won't. That is a self defence mechanism, and it is there for a reason. If you need to defend yourself from someone, then it means the relationship had already broken down to a stage where it is not repairable.

You are NOTHING to do with his abusive behaviour.

You could be mean to him, you could goad him, but he's an adult. He controls his own behaviour, and if he can't, then he needs help doing so.

I'm sure you've heard of "provocation" as a legal defense, on wiki here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provocation_%28legal%29 it talks about

"Judging whether an individual should be held responsible for their actions depends on an assessment of their culpability. This is usually tested by reference to a reasonable person: that is, a universal standard to determine whether an ordinary person would have been provoked and, if so, would have done as the defendant did. Thus, if the majority view of social behavior would be that, when provoked, it would be acceptable to respond verbally and, if the provocation persists, then to walk away, that will set the threshold for the defense." [emphasis added]

He is claiming that your behaviour provokes him. A reasonable person (as mentioned above) would not react the way he reacted.

He isn't having panic attacks. Someone else mentioned above dissociative behavior, and I don't think that fits either because (contrary to what that same posted said) you said he knows what he is doing and remembers doing it.

It seems to me like he's just having a tantrum. The fact he then goes on to continue to blame you are red flags to me.

Aside from these episodes of rage, what is he like normally?

OP I sincerely hope you are listening to the good advice on here, particularly Cogito.

Reading your posts is making my blood run cold. This man is not reasonable. He is dangerous. The problem is not you, it is him. He is abusive. Even if he is ill, he is dangerous. Please leave.

He has said I am the problem - not listening to him, being controlling, having the power in the relationship. I don't think any of this is true but if he sees the problem as to do with the relationship perhaps I need to be responsive to this (which probably means Relate)?

You are in deep deep trouble OP. Disengage. You are not part of the problem. He has significant MH problems (I can't say whether he is really having panic attacks or not, but I suspect not) and even without them, he is also abusive and controlling.

The more time you spend talking to him about this, being enmeshed with this, the less chance he has of ever recovering from this.

Relate is for couples counselling.
It is a BAD idea for people who already have MH problems.
It is a very VERY BAD idea for women whose partners are showing controlling behaviours.

I am not trying to say that he is a bad person. I am trying to say that your presence is not helping him. The more you are around him, the more he has the opportunity to imagine that his MH and anger/rage issues are your fault. This just means that he is less and less likely to find the actual help that he needs.

I know that it feels terrible to "abandon" him. But please remember that your feelings, no matter how strong, don't necessarily reflect reality.

It is natural for a human being to feel pity and compassion, and to take on responsibility for peace and harmony in their relationships. BUT. Your partner is unwell and by insisting on trying to "help" him you are only harming him. Get away from him, make it possible for him to become introspective. Right now, if you're there, he will just continuously focus on you, to the point that he cannot focus on himself.

If he tries to force you to "talk" to him, please refuse and leave.
If he starts physically restraining you, or begins with one of his tantrums, call the police. He is a danger to himself.
You need to leave (not necessarily forever, but at least for a while), and he needs to access MH treatment.

This is classic abuse, I'm sorry. He may have a psychiatric condition or mental health difficulty in addition to being abusive, but he remains abusive.
Have a look here
www.uic.edu/depts/owa/power_control-wheel.html
www.hiddenhurt.co.uk/warning_signs.html

if it is to do with you/your relationship then you both need to call time on the relationship - it clearly isn't working. no amount of relate/counselling will sort this.

I would call 999 next time he acts like this - he needs help for his "panic attacks" if that is what they are. if medical he needs medical help; if not he needs to be taken and cautioned by police...

record or video if you can. look at your phone see what button to press for record.

keep phone with you.

and imagine if he behaves like this when you have children together - it just wont work will it?

tell him he has to see a GP about his "panic attacks" - but separate from him first.

If you are scared what will happen if you end it, you need to speak to Women's Aid. You need to tell him in a public place and you need to have a safe place to go to immediately afterwards, preferably with a friend of family member there ready to take you. You need to have a replacement phone ready and charged and to turn off any phone that he knows the number of. You need to make sure that as soon as you have told him that he is blocked on Facebook etc.

He will do everything he can to stop you going/get you back. Then he will punish you for trying to get away.

What is the best tactic that you have found for stalling him? Can you tell him that you are unwell? Or will that not register? Can you just agree to the Relate for now but the appointments don't happen over night so that will give you time to find a way to get out.

Wishing you all the luck in the world.

Do not go for relationship counselling until he has had help for his own issues, he needs to be more stable before you can be able to honestly talk about your feelings.

I can't equate those behaviours to panic attacks. When I've had panic attacks, my heart has been racing, I've felt unable to breath, felt sick, wobbly, and absolutely terrified. All I've wanted is someone to hold me and calm me down.

I'll probably get flamed for bringing this into the mix but a friend of mine has high-functioning Aspergers. She is normally quite stable BUT after extended periods of stress, she does have what she calls "meltdowns". She's not had one for quite some time but last time she did she was stressed with a college assignment. She couldn't get the support she needed from IT or from her tutor (who have a poor understanding of AS). She got so wound up that she tore her phone out of the wall socket and took a rounders bat to the PC. Total loss of control.

I'm not suggesting this is the case with your DP but he obviously has anger management and/or emotional issues. Lashing out physically or trying to forcibly restrain something has nothing to do with panic attacks. Misplaced/misinterpreted emotional outlet, confused appropriate behaviour/inability to control anger yes.

No flaming from me MrsC but his "attacks" only started 3 years into the relationship and he is 29.

My dd has similar meltdowns (she has AS) but has had them consistently since she was a toddler and they have been witnessed by others.

She doesn't try to make other people feel responsible for her behaviour either and she's only 14!

ALL relationships have problems, everyone has disagreements.

What distinguishes your DB is that the way he reacts to those disagreements.

Who cares about the DIY?! It's JUST DIY. His response to you not agreeing with him or listening to him belabouring every point he wished to make is what you and he should be caring about. And so it is HIS problem, not yours.

Because there will ALWAYS be something that will cause an argument or a disagreement. That's life.

But from what OP is saying they have been witnessed by others. OP said when he gets like this he doesn’t care who’s watching.

That's the bit that gives me pause when trying to tell whether this is manipulation or meltdown. A manipulator might be more likely to behave like this only in secret and keep a lid on it in front of others.

Do not under any circumstances show him this thread. It will put you in danger of being attacked.

Because that is what is happening here. You are being physically and emotionally abused. Blocking you and intimidating you using his body and hanging onto you as you describe is physical abuse. The controlling elements of this (the fact it kicks off when you disagree with him on something) are emotional abuse.

What you describe are not panic attacks or anger management issues. Panic attacks are when you have palpitations, struggle to breath, feel dizzy, spaced out, about to die etc. They are not directed AT people and certainly don't involve physically restraining or blocking people. Anger difficulties would mean he would not be able to control himself with anyone. But this only happens with you, when you two are alone? Right? So not an anger problem.

It is a classic tactic of abuse to tell the victim that they are the controller or abuser, or that they cause the episodes to happen, or that the abuser has MH problems and that is why they behave as they do. The truth is that he is just choosing to treat you like this because he enjoys the control it gives him.

What you do is this: tonight, you agree to whatever keeps him calm. Tomorrow you phone Women's Aid and go straight into a refuge and leave him permanently. Really. If you were a friend of mine and I knew this was happening, I would come round RIGHT NOW and get you out.

Lottie, why are you searching for excuses for this bloke's behaviour ?

This sounds like a couple I know very well. It is dangerously co-dependent as she has believed he can't live without her and his behaviour is the result of MH problems.

He is depressed - very seriously - but he's also selfish, lazy, cruel & childish. When he wants to charm someone new it's incredible how suddenly with it and capable he is.

You can't fix him.

Regardless of what happened in the past historically, and who said, what, when and why. What really matters is what just occurred and how you felt and how you responded to this. You cannot go back into history to change your past. But you can focus and make choices which sits better with yourself right now, this moment. What the future will be is based on how you make that decision now.

At 29, I still think that this relationship is not the end all and be all either. If you can find the courage to let go of it, without feeling sentimental, without feeling guilty, without overthinking "what if it was"... or a "why was it"... "but he needs me".... Just make a clean cut now. The future can only be happier if you let yourself to choose better decisions which sits better with yourself, and gives you some peaceful thoughts. Relationships that does not drain your energy does exist.

I am scared for you OP.

You aren't hearing what everyone is saying because you love him and I suspect a lot of the time you think everything is fine but that is because he can't be arsed to scare and control you.

If you make a mistake in leaving him and it all turns out he was ill then it isn't the end of the world. There is more than one person for everyone in the world. But if you stay you could end up injured, ground down emotionally, mother of his kids that he also abuses, dead.

Take the advice of the wise people on this thread and get the hell out of the relationship.

I rang a domestic violence helpline earlier which was v useful. My friends picking me up in a minute. I texted him to explain im just getting some space. He was really shocked, panicky, scared I think. Taking all my strength not to feel sorry for him. I'm scared the conversation will be ten times harder tomorrow.

you've done the right thing op.

remember that his reactions are just that, reactions. he just wants things to stay the same. but it is very plain that things MUST change because he is going to get himself and/or you into terrible trouble if he carries on like this.

all human beings fear change and we are wired to try to prevent change, sometimes at great cost to ourselves, otherwise the saying "better the devil you know" would not be in our vocabulary.

but you must be brave and give yourself and him enough space that change can occur. as long as you are around him, available to him, nothing will improve for either of you. it's sad, but like i said, it is very plain that someone has to be strong here, and it may as well be you.

you are doing the right thing getting away. You sound so scared of him and this conversation you are going to have. You do know it isn't right to live in such fear of him don't you? I really hope you get rid and find someone who doesn't frighten you.

Take care OP. Being in love doesn't include being scared.

OP

I just wanted to point out (for when you start doubting yourself) that at least one of the contributors to this thread is a very highly qualified mental health professional. They are obviously not posting in this capacity in this forum, but it is very telling that they are saying the same as everyone else.

Stay strong x