I've left please hold my hand

[notmakingsense]

Hi I have previously posted about my well I guess now my ex partner. This is my previous thread www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/2062136-need-advice-long

So last night we wound up having another argument and it all came out so now ive left with no legal advice though hopefully I wont need it. Im feeling incredibly guilty as he was so shocked and its the 1st time ive seen any emotion other than anger he said he would seek help about his anger issues and stop shouting so much but I just cant stay.

I hope he does get help and work through whatever is causing it but I still think separating is for best as it was/is badly affecting eldest dc and I have completely switched off from him to cope with to the point where I just dont care about him but I feel so bad that he is hurting and im so confused is feeling like that normal? A part of me keeps saying what of your wrong and the things he says about my contributing to his anger by being soft with dc and neurotic with money are right. Im changing everyones life. I was so sure before it actually happened now im having moments of doubt

And you are NOT stupid, so just stop that (stamps foot, arms akimbo)!! You are in a new situation. One that doesn't have an instruction booklet.

Thanks across I want whats best for dc ultimately but is it really feasible for him to pop by every day!! I mean he even said he was 'doing me a favour by coming to me to see them' ffs its probably the most attention he has paid them in their whole lives!!

I just want to get in to a routine asap for the dc and feel like he isnt giving me the chance to settle them and get used to us being apart!! I mean god sake im spending more time worried about him turning up and talking to me now than I did when still with him. I get that he loves them too but in reality this cant work surely as id be a wreck and he is still in control

Please just stop talking to him, close the door and switch off the phone. You don't have to get in a routine. You don't have to do anything at all really barring getting yourself calm, focused and relaxed. That takes time so take the time. Get the legal advice as I think that will make you feel more confident but him coming around every day is not acceptable.

Tell him once to stay away until you've made a decision about what happens next and also tell him that, if he persists in coming round, the police will be called.

Can I do that though cog in terms of the dc that is my worry I wish he would leave us alone for a bit then only see me at hand overs unless its a special event ie a birthday for dc

I am going to have to get legal advice im already worried about him having dc overnight tommorow but cant change it as dc is expecting it to happen, he is right I would be gutted if I couldn't see them everyday but I dont think its in dc interest or is that selfish on my part. Im not handling the thought of seeing him every day well at all to which he suggested if I couldn't stand to be around him he would take dc out for half an hour everyday someone please say that he wouldn't be given that please

I think he's got a classic case of 'you never want a drink of water until the well runs dry'. And he's used to calling the shots so he just expects to have what he wants when he wants it. It'll be an uphill climb but eventually he'll get the message.

Figure out what you feel is reasonable access and let him know, preferably in writing. Or have a solicitor handle the letter writing. But include that he is not to assume he has free access to your (parent's) home. The reason I feel that is so important is that I think that his feeling he can show up whenever reinforces to him that you are still 'his' or at the ery least, he is entitled to call the shots. As the saying goes 'begin as you mean to go on'. He needs to learn early that you are not at his beck and call. And when he says 'how would you feel' just tell him that your feelings are no longer his concern.

You have left an abusive relationship and he is carrying on with the abuse. So you can do whatever it is you have to do to keep yourself and your DCs safe and secure. You're staying with family but you could very easily have asked to be placed in a refuge and then he would have been barred from seeing the DCs all together.

If the DCs stay with him overnight, I am willing to bet they will come home sobbing because he will do exactly what he did last time and fill their heads with 'Mummy hates Daddy and doesn't want us to all be together' rubbish. So no, it wouldn't be selfish to protect them from that experience.

'Fair' access - you will find - varies from individual to individual but the key is shared parenting in the best interests of the child. So you need to tell the solicitor the full story about the bullying behaviour, including him using the children as weapons & following you to the park etc... and point out that the only reason he wants daily access is in order to carry on the abuse.

Yes, what Cogito said. You might have physically left the house but he's still abusing you and you're letting him at the moment because it's all you know.

STOP talking to him. As soon as you've seen the solicitor, refer him to them. It will cost more, probably but it will save you from the continuing abuse.

If he escalates (and he's already started) then consider leaving your parents' house for somewhere he doesn't know.

And from now on, expect the worst from him over everything. He's unlikely to disappoint you :(

Well said, Thumbwitch.

OP, as long as he has access to YOU, he will continue to abuse and manipulate you.
This is the only reason he wants to see the kids every day. Every time he sees them he gets another chance to have a go at you. Every time you talk to him, he gets another chance to have a go at you.:(

If he doesn't get to see you when he sees the children, I think his interest in child contact will fade markedly.

Good luck with seeking legal advice. That's a very wise move.

You have VERY good advice here, not.

I'm really angry with him for the way he's still turning the screws on you, several times a day ... even though it was to be expected. Your boundaries around him are still weak, following years of attack, but they're still in place. Happy to see that Yes, seeing a doctor and a lawyer are good moves. They'll help figure out where you boundaries are.

Have you thought of checking with Women's Aid or Rights Of Women for a lawyer with specialist experience of abusive relationships?

I loved your phone's new swear word - buttercunt Too good for your STBXH, though!

More from me, and increasing strength each day. xx

Thank you everyone I cannot believe what this has come to

cog you are so insightful I can only hope that in rl people get this too. I just hope he would not damage dc by playing with their minds but at 1st hint of that I can reasonably stop contact? I feel I cannot go back on tomorrows plans for dc as dc already know and expect to go plus the 1 member of his family who can see him for what he is will be going to spend time with them too as well as others from his side so hopefully it will be fine.

thumbwitch it would be good if he didn't know where I was unfortunately I dont have many/any places to go like that and think without my parents help id be in a much worse state.

I will ask tommorow what solicitor thinks Is fair and go from there I was not going to fight the financial side of things as he said he would settle last bills for house and put money in trust for dc but now I want legal advice re that too.

tell me if im mad/wrong but I know this going to be flung at me, we had a joint account that his wages went in to and paid all dds but there was still an excess of almost £400 each month. I paid for day to day expenses from my current account and despite having a cards for it we never requested pin nos so if he wanted/needed money I would ask how much etc and draw it out. He became annoyed that I would not let him take my bank card or put his name on my account and several times I told him to request pin for joint vut he refused saying "that's not what its for" and he had as much right to my account as I did? I also suggested setting up an account of his own btw. So yes I was controlling with money but have come to realise that this was due to nit being able to control anything else

Thanks wryd and garlic yes buttercunt is way too mild.

You are all helping enormously btw please help me keep strong.

Just read this and fairly quickly, but I just wanted to say for you to beware.
I have been there. Through the initial disbelief, promises of change, but still blaming me, but then more threats, more abuse, more violence when he saw I was not going back.
It has calmed down, but the first year was hard.

Do not fall for his act now.

Don't think for a minute that if you go back he will change in any way.

If anything, he should seek help now and act consistently for a fairly long time to gain your trust. But, as you said, you have lost the love for him. He may never get it back, and that's the risk he takes when he abuses his family.

I'm sure you told him before about how his anger was affecting you and the children. I'm sure you told him before you didn't like it. I'm sure he saw the effect on the children. He chose to ignore it.

It is against bank rules to give your pin to him. If fraud was committed you would be responsible.

Call every bill company and advise you have moved out. Write a list. Tell them his name and the fact he is living there. Inc council tax. If anyone at the bill companies gets funny/isn't helpful with you explain you have had to leave due to domestic abuse and you really need their help. You may find the help is more forthcoming.

I get the feeling that he may have bad credit? Am I correct? Has he had a previous partner whom he says was controlling with money? Very unusual not to have his own current account. Very unusual for the full time worker not to take finance in their name. Sorry if I am assuming.

Now the rented place, is that in your name or joint or his? Are you tied into a contract? When does it expire? Is it a letting agent?

You owe your ex nothing. It is his responsibility to be happy. I agree with pp that he is going to turn nasty. He is likely to use the children to get to you. Be prepared. Write a diary. Very important a) for solicitor b) for your own sanity, you can reread it to show exactly how unreasonable he is.

You do not owe your mutual friends or his aunty an explanation. The relationship was not working and you are not prepared for your children to be screamed at by him.
Ask mum or dad to answer the door, depending on who is better at being firm. In my house that would be me. Woe betide an ex partner who caused chaos on my doorstep. Any hint of hassle/threats or anger and I would be the 'unreasonable' one who reported a domestic disturbance to the police.

Ps a great dad would want to see both the kids (not just the older easier one) and a great dad wouldn't tell his kids that mummy had said they can't live with him. His primary concern is him, he is continuing to show his true colours. Keep making notes.

If the account is joint, then all he has to do is go to the bank with the bank account details and id and withdraw money. He can also request a card.

Like Lweji it took 1 year for my ex to truly realise I meant it. I think he tells people he broke up with me! That's fine by me! They have all said they thought he was a cock anyway! I still received abusive texts after 4 years when I was living and engaged to someone! And unsurprisingly, in fact it was boringly unsurprising I received a phone call telling me I was mad and needed putting a 'mental hospital' for having a baby with my errr husband... Amazing. (He disguised it as being annoyed by something else but I'm very sure my pregnancy was the reason).

You are doing well op. Many of posting have been exactly where you are now. We are now looking back on our previous life and being thankful we are no longer there.

Ps it's lovely to hear the front door open and know a kind, considerate partner has come home instead of a feeling of dread.

I would add to the excellent advice about calling utility companies etc and telling them that you no longer live at the address and should no longer be on the bills. Also call the bank where the joint account is held, explain that you have split up, and tell them to freeze it. Any money in your personal account is under your control and it was a smart move to keep it separate because you can now use it (if you don't already) for income from earnings, benefits and in time maintenance.

So no contact now and, even if he has the DCs overnight, don't agree to a repeat. Have you got an appointment with CAB or a solicitor?

Come on OP - get angry! This 'd'H has been abusive and bullying to you for years; now you have taken the step of removing yourself and your children from his bullying. Well done! Don't let anyone, not family, not aunts. not friends, tell you what you should do with your life! You are the one who will be living it.

Don't let him turn it on you by suggesting how you would feel if you could only see the dc once a week - he is the abusive one, and you are the stable calm parent. You are the one who should be with them 90 % of the week. Incidentally, 'fair' and 'normal' contact varies, but my ex sees the dc every wednesday night, and every other weekend, friday night to sunday , but mine are older. Yours are still very young, so EOW maybe sat am to sunday pm, and once in the week pick up from nursery? Get legal advice.

And try not to see him when he comes to the door. He is forcing himself onto you just as much as he did when you were living together, and he is not allowing you space. he is controlling you and still bullying you.

GET LEGAL ADVICE ASAP!

lewji he has a card just not a pin no

cog i have an appointment today so hopefully that will help and I can do what I needs without worrying it will affect how im seen.

I called tax credits and will at some point call round utility providers today though he has said he does not intend to stay there he is at the moment. I just dont know if they will take me off without us both there

I had said that he could collect them after work on the day before he is off and bring them back the following evening so this would be twice a week but he is insisting he has every right to see them everyday the thought of that makes me feel anxious and sick its bad enough worrying about the twice a week.

He has no 'right' to see them every day. Shared parenting is for the benefit of the children and they do not benefit from being shuttled back and forth on a daily basis with someone who wants to pump them full of poisonous messages. The contact schedule should be predictable, sensible and something that ideally is mutually agreed and is reasonable & convenient to you both. If he persists in being unreasonable, you cease all contact, hand it over to lawyers and he pays the costs.

Will they do that cog? Wont I need to pay also? It would be best either way I think he seems unable to grasp that popping in every day is confusing for the dc and causing me distress.

How could I not see him for what he is? Why cant others? I know that some people are actually feeling sorry for him

Cross the 'who pays' bridge when you come to it because I don't suppose he has the money for a legal battle any more than you do. The important thing is that he needs to think you would go to the wire for the DCs rather than let him keep steamrollering you.

He does grasp that his behaviour is causing you distress. That's how he's been up to now and how he will continue to be. He's trying to make your life as unpleasant as possible in order for you to do what he wants. That's what bullies do.

How could you not see it? Because bullies are not issued with high-vis jackets that say 'I'm an aggressive arsehole - avoid!' on the back. They never show their hand from the outset. They can be quite ordinary, often charming, occasionally pathetic characters ... that's how they get nice women like you to take them on in the first place.

What I admire about you is that, now you've realised what's happening, you've had the courage to stand up to him and reject him. Many never get to that point. He's kicking off and you're having a few wobbles but you're being incredibly brave for sticking to your guns and seeing it through. :)

Cog - is bang on, as ever. He is purposefully causing you distress, by coming to the house, making comments about your parenting (how would you feel...) making threats, making demands for his 'rights'. He is doing this so that you feel guilty (and you do!) and selfish and doubt yourself. He is doing so because he wants you back, where he can keep you as his verbal punchbag/skivvy/sex piece. I wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't feeding the 'oh poor, lovely me - what on earth have I don't to deserve this' line to your aunt, your friends, anyone who will listen.

And regarding you being 'controlling' with money - you took control because he had got you into debt. You took control and you are no longer in debt! That is a good thing you did, not a bad thing!

Contract should be sorted out by the solicitors, or the courts if you can't agree on what's best for the DC! Solicitors Fees vary, but I think they would tell you upfront whether it's going to be 50/50, or if he will pay, or any percentage in between.

Solicitor was very straight to the point said I could empty the joint account if I so wish but working out figures i should get £2000 but that fighting for tt may be a waste of time/extra heartache. Re dc its whats best for them solicitor said we would go carrot and stick approach that the carrot was 2 nights a week if he wants more take me court im so sure he will and very very scared

Im going no contact as much as possible while still being available to ds while he is not with me. Fuck fuck fuck

Have taken my name off tenancy and council tax waiting on call back from electricity lord help me when he gets the solicitor letter shits gonna hit the fan bigtime.

It would whenever you make it plain that he's out, even if you left things as is for a decade. But you can prepare yourself because you are forewarned. You know what his likely behaviour will be so it won't be a surprise.

Ask your parents to not tell him where you are if he turns up, as in "she's not here right now" instead of "she's at park with DCs"

And be kind to yourself, you are not the villain in the piece.

You're making terrific progress so far. Your solicitor sounds very sensible and pragmatic. I guarantee (as he's a bully) that he will threaten court action and probably say he'll sue you for sole custody into the bargain. It'll all be hot air because truth is that bullies are cowards. He can be a big man when it comes to intimidating you and upsetting children but he won't be half as brave towards your solicitor.

I agree to the carrot and stick.
But he is likely to be unreasonable, regardless. Let him tantrum, and see what he does before you worry too much.
He will probably threaten a lot, but do very little in fact.
Even if he does go to court, it's likely that the judge will see through him.

As for:
I think he seems unable to grasp that popping in every day is confusing for the dc and causing me distress.
I think he grasps it very well.