I've left please hold my hand

[notmakingsense]

Hi I have previously posted about my well I guess now my ex partner. This is my previous thread www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/2062136-need-advice-long

So last night we wound up having another argument and it all came out so now ive left with no legal advice though hopefully I wont need it. Im feeling incredibly guilty as he was so shocked and its the 1st time ive seen any emotion other than anger he said he would seek help about his anger issues and stop shouting so much but I just cant stay.

I hope he does get help and work through whatever is causing it but I still think separating is for best as it was/is badly affecting eldest dc and I have completely switched off from him to cope with to the point where I just dont care about him but I feel so bad that he is hurting and im so confused is feeling like that normal? A part of me keeps saying what of your wrong and the things he says about my contributing to his anger by being soft with dc and neurotic with money are right. Im changing everyones life. I was so sure before it actually happened now im having moments of doubt

It sounds good. :)

Breathe slowly. It will be ok. If he kicks off, call the police.

In addition to telling him you love him, try to spend more time with him (and the baby), lots of hugs and cuddles and generally give him attention.
You can ask him if he has questions. You can tell a lot about his fears from his questions. And it's not like he is actually telling you anything.

I've just read the whole thread and just wanted to add my support and to tell you that you are doing brilliantly.

Agree with everything that has already been said, your solicitors letter sounds good and it sounds like you have a good solicitor who has the measure of your ex.

I know how stressful it is at this stage, I've been there but it DOES get easier I promise. Be as hard faced as you can, and don't feel guilty. HE is the one who has caused this and he is the one who should feel guilty. You are protecting your kids and standing up to his bullying and you have done the right thing by getting out.

Have zero tolerance for his bullying and manipulation, stay strong and stick to your guns.

Sending you un-mumsnetty hugs and strength. You will come out of this stronger and happier, I promise.

God im so scared about his next move when he gets this letter terrified in fact. He is managing to sell a sob story and I think even friends that were originally mine are falling for it by looks of it he is going to try and make out that im "clearly unwell" as I was put on ads for anxiety. I just hope that it wont count against me this is a total mess and he wonders why I wont talk face to face or on phone!

I think maybe others are buying it as I never told anyone bar my parents and sister what he was truly like and now I know they still speak to him I dont trust them at all never thought id lose friends ive known a long time could cry!

If you lose friends because they choose to believe his spin over the truth then they are not friends worth keeping. You could try pre-empting his lies if you liked.... get your retaliation in first and get your side of the story out there.... but that can then turn into a 'he said she said' battle and it can come across as petty. Liars tend to get found out eventually.

Whatever he says and whatever others believe, it really won't 'count against you' in any meaningful way. Your family know the truth so close ranks. The only person's opinion that matters right now is your solicitor and she sounds like a diamond quite honestly.

If they are good friends they will want to hear your side of the story too, and hopefully will remain neutral at worst.
If not, they were never your friends.

But time will vindicate you.

Thats just it though isnt it it hurts to think they have never been real friends and I think he may be implying that I am trying to isolate myself from them as I have not been leaning on them for support but as the 1st reaction was we are here for both of you I dont know what else they expected

Just want to say bravo, notmaking, you are doing brilliantly, even while you feel scared.

Your solicitor's letter sounds very good.

Abuse thrives on secrecy, so if you want to tell a few friends what went on, I don't see why you shouldn't. Though it might be better to keep it brief and non emotional for most.
'He was aggressive and abusive, and refused to get help. The relationship could not continue.' Finish.

Cogito is right about the risk of 'he said, she said.' You don't have to keep his secrets, and you can give people the bare facts: dignified silence is a choice you can make too. On the other hand don't feel you have to suffer in silence. None of this was your fault.

When you split with anyone, friends will go with one or the other half. They really have little choice - it gets too difficult to be friends with both.

The thing is, that they may not have any choice but to believe him, especially if they're only getting his side of the story - you haven't told anyone any different, you still don't want to, what would YOU do in their position?

The ADs for anxiety are a total red herring and if people truly think that means you are "clearly unwell" then they're living in cloud cuckoo land and maybe you shouldn't remain friends with such gullible people anyway!

However, it does NOT mean that they weren't "real friends" - they're in a difficult position now and have little to go on.

I would, if I were you, talk to the friend you consider your most trustworthy and tell them the truth - if they know other friends, then they may be able to pass on your side of the story. But it would benefit you to talk to others as well - although you have to be careful what you say, so that not too much gets back to your H.

It is a total fucking minefield, I have to say and I don't envy you going through that - I never want to have to go through it again myself either.

If there was a friend you felt particularly close to & want to keep, reach out to him/her, if you feel comfortable doing so. Or suggest lunch with a few of the wives. Explain that you have been quiet as you have needed all that is in you to just get away & resettle. Tell your side simply, bearing in mind that your stbxh may or may not be told what you have said. See what the reaction is & if you feel you can trust that person. Keep in mind that you may need to develop new friendships if you want to be sure that 'tittle tattle' isn't getting back to him or if he's already poisoned that pool of friends.

It's hard on couple-friends when another couple splits. Unless there's a public blow-up they really don't know what's going on & have to choose sides based on pretty much nothing. My circle of friends were like 'Montagues & Capulets' when a couple in our group first split because they had hidden things so well. But later things started coming to light, in this case she was in the wrong (cheating). But at first we didn't know which way to jump. Your friends may appear to be siding w/stbxh because they don't really know your side. Another thing to remember is that, unfortunately, some women feel that divorce is 'catching' and cut the separated wife out. Stinks but true.

What Acrossthepond says is very true - but also there seems sometimes to be the suggestion that the newly single wife is somehow a threat to their own marriages! Ridiculous in most cases of course - but still some women feel threatened by the single woman in their midst.

thumbwitch they came to see me as I was supposed to go out for a couple hours the night ds was supposed to be at his dads but obviously I had to cancel at last minute due to ds coming back. They wanted me to leave him with my parents but I didn't want to and was right about 10 mins later he was sick I did tell them he has roared at ds in front of them before and I said that was a very common occurrence and that whenever I tried to discuss anything emotional it was met with your talking crap etc and that careless acts on his part were to be laughed off but on mine were a big big deal. They are still there for both of us it would seem and it makes me feel rubbish like im making a mountain out of a molehill just because it suits me that because I was able in stronger moments to stand up for myself/my son that the rest is invalid or that he has gone for anger management means I should have given him a chance and im a bad person. God my head hurts my heart hurts and worst of all my dc are hurting and my parents are under stress they dont need.

Oh goodness, give them a swerve, they don't sound like they're doing you any favours at all! Interfering "friends" who think they know better than you what will work in your marriage are to be avoided. They don't live your life, they don't know what it's like behind closed doors - they sound painful, tbh.

If they choose to see you as the villain of the piece, then they're no friends in the first place, as you said. :( It's hard when you realise that about people whom you thought were friends, but in reality, you'll feel better without them whining on to you about how hard your H is having it and how you should have "tried harder" and "given him another chance". They don't really care about you, only about their own comfort - and you splitting from your H has disturbed their comfort zone.

Friends might find it difficult to take sides at first. There's always that awkward fence-sitting phase of wondering if the unhappy couple will get back together. Given that phase is long gone I'd suggest that you become very selective about who you call a friend, what information you reveal and basically surround yourself only with people that agree with you and support you 100%. If you're having doubts you don't need anyone to feed those doubts

Most people don't understand abusive relationships, which in a way is a good sign, but it can be difficult to explain how bad it can be.
My only advice is not to try and "excuse" yourself. More like it's something you will not put up with because you are a strong person. You have enough.
And you may add something about leopards and spots and giving chances only when people have actually changed. Wanting, intending or claiming to change is not enough. Not at the stage you have reached.
And ask them if they would put up with similar. Would they allow their child to be roared at? Would they want to be roared at?

thumbwitch cog lweji your right I know you are these friends go way back and I didn't and wont even be telling them I have a solicitor as I dont know now that they can be trusted I could cry tbh. Having a dilemma with return of the car ffr which the finance is in my name his aunt called my solicitor and asked for a date and time to pick it up I offered tonight or tomorrow afternoon and solicitor called back to say neither suited end of next week it would need to be to which the solicitor has decided no he is just "dicking" about take the spare key and collect the car take him off the insurance and report it stolen if he takes it without permission its a route id rather not go down and I haven't a clue what to do as I fear the repercussions ie car being vandalised as well as well as parents car im scared to do it. Im scared that on Monday I will receive a petition for residence im just so stressed and scared

Go and get the car. Do you have a key? If you do, then go and get it. Take a parent with you if you need to. He is playing games, so just say "no, I'm not putting up with this shit" and go and get it, then take him off the insurance.

Let him petition for residence. He won't get it.

I agree, go and get the car if you have a key, get your dad or sister to go with you.

He won't get any orders granted and his aunt needs to butt out, unless she's named on the finance it's none of her business.

No just me in the finance, my poor ds needs help though he is lashing out and its getting worse and worse both verbally and now physically what do I do the only snippet of information ive had is when he asked if I was going out with friends I said no but is that why you wanted to come back on Wednesday night he said yes now I hadn't told him id be going out! I probably shouldn't have but I asked if he was scared mummy would leave him he said yes my heart almost broke at that point I said nothing he could say or do would make me leave but I dont know how to help him. Im so worried about whats to come if ex tries for residence its going to make him worse.

In terms of getting DS accustomed to you going out could you do short trips out leaving him at home with your parents. Like go to the corner shop for a newspaper, then after a few days go to the supermarket, then stop and have a coffee to make your supermarket trip a little big longer.

He really needs to see that you are coming back home and haven't left him behind.

It is a very common fear.
Going slowly is a good idea.

It is likely that your ex told him he would take your or something similar.

But he is testing you. He's testing if your love is unconditional.
My normal tactic is boundary, then love. He is punished for lashing out (time out), then we talk and hug. He needs to know he can't act aggressively, but that you are there for him.

I left ex because of dv when DS was 6. He is now 9 and a happy boy, although he is sad that his dad is away and not at home. It's just something that doesn't affect his behaviour, but it's normal to be sad that the parents separated, even though he knows and understands why.

I make sure I accept his feelings. I tell him I'm sad too that the family is apart, but there is no other way because we can't accept bad behaviour towards us.
I've had the boundary pushing, and the angry episodes, but you just keep parenting as you would. Normality is important. And you keep listening to those little bits he lets out and respond to them then.

I am trying I feel so sorry and guilty for him my parents dont want the hassle that is likely to ensue should we go and take it as ds is obviously hurting we dont want police etc at the door unless it is absolutely necessary which I get.

I know its not really up to them but as im living there and they are helping me enormously. They wanted to contact his sister and say it was fine for her to come see kids and that he should contact to arrange access but I spoke to my friend (paralegal) who said that the onus was on him to arrange that. We think he has misinterpreted the letter in as much as he thinks he cannot contact at all but then he or rather his aunt could have asked when they called solicitor re car but didnt god its such a mess I am doing the right thing or should I ask what days he wants dc? Crap I wish there was some sort of manual.

A manual would be nice, wouldn't it? The closest we get to that is listening to what others have done then sorting the wheat from the chaff.

If it would be possible or advisable do you think it might help DS if you & stbx were to be able to talk with him together? To explain that sometimes mummies & daddies don't stay together but that it doesn't mean that you love DS less or that you both won't be there for him? Only if you think that stbx would be able to be calm & supportive of you as far as not saying mummy left, mummy doesn't love daddy etc.

It is a fine line to walk when an adult child moves home, especially when grand kids are involved. I had to move home with ds1 due to dh's work move that sent him on ahead of us. It was only 5 months and my mum is very easy to get along with & reasonable and it was STILL hard. All I could do was grin & bear it and put my foot down when things got too far off my parenting track!

Oh, and as far as him seeing DS, let him make the move. It's not your fault if he's misinterpreting things. If he or any member of his family asks or raises an issue, you just open your eyes real wide & say 'but that's not what the letter meant. He just has to contact me/solicitor to arrange a reasonable schedule.

I agree with Acrossthepond - wait for him to make contact.

Re. your DS's behaviour - he really is testing you to make sure that you still love him and won't leave him, because he's seen that you've left his dad and has maybe been given some shonky info by his dad that's been twisted in his mind.

There was another poster on here not long ago who moved with her 2 DDs to a women's refuge - even though the elder DD had lived in fear of her Dad, as soon as they were in the refuge, her behaviour got really bad to start with - but it was thought that this was because she no longer had to fear reprisals, since her father wasn't there any more, and she had to test her new boundaries with her mum to see if she would react the same way.

Hard to deal with from an adult perspective, but it's the only way they know how to make sense of what's going on. Just keep on reassuring him and make sure that if/whenever you do go out, you're always back when you say you will be. x

You will notice how little he cares, because he does care very little about the DC. And you will be sad, but if he was a caring father he wouldn't have behaved as he has.

I agree that you should wait till asks for contact. Otherwise it will look like he's doing you a favour. As I explained to exH recently, visitation is a privilege for a parent, not a right. Conversely, it is a right of the child.

I don't think he has misunderstood the letter, btw.