I've left please hold my hand

[notmakingsense]

Hi I have previously posted about my well I guess now my ex partner. This is my previous thread www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/2062136-need-advice-long

So last night we wound up having another argument and it all came out so now ive left with no legal advice though hopefully I wont need it. Im feeling incredibly guilty as he was so shocked and its the 1st time ive seen any emotion other than anger he said he would seek help about his anger issues and stop shouting so much but I just cant stay.

I hope he does get help and work through whatever is causing it but I still think separating is for best as it was/is badly affecting eldest dc and I have completely switched off from him to cope with to the point where I just dont care about him but I feel so bad that he is hurting and im so confused is feeling like that normal? A part of me keeps saying what of your wrong and the things he says about my contributing to his anger by being soft with dc and neurotic with money are right. Im changing everyones life. I was so sure before it actually happened now im having moments of doubt

Remember that the money is not for you, it's for the children. And the children deserve every penny they can get from their father. Claim everything you possibly can, they deserve the best you can give them and that means the maximum support payment possible.

across I will be looking into what I need to do about it this week the only niggle is that despite him having access that will be gradually built he will once again spit him dummy out and decide to go to court after all but trying not to let that fear stop me getting what i can for dc. I haven't done anything wrong or unreasonable and court would see tthat.

No, you have not been unreasonable and your children deserve an amount of maintenance that will permit them to have what they need (& some of what they want) . The positive thing about court orders is that they are solid instructions: "Father will pay XX on XX date, he will be allowed to see DCs on XX days". No more arguing, no holding out support payments when/if he gets miffed about something. The negative is that you may be required to allow more time than you would wish at first. But I think the positive is worth the negative in the long run.

Thanks across at the moment I'm waiting to see if he goes ahead and does stop payments and or reclaim "over payments" but as far as we can tell we would qualify for legal aid to claim financial disadvantage if he did so. With access while he is being as much of an arrogant idiot as always he is or seems anyway to be towing the line though whether that lasts if I don't do what he wants at review remains to be seen. Ds had said ex mil is going to have a big bouncy castle next time he is up so either he has an active imagination or they are really desperate to try and appear better than they are its actually quite funny. Not so funny is poor dd was crying when she left this morning then again when he returned to pick ds up after school i could hear her calling for me but couldn't comfort her his equally as idiotic sister saying what's wrong to her while she cries mum mum eh duh have come to the conclusion the whole family are 1 sandwich short of a picnic!

Still a whole week now without having to see them

Ok so reading some other threads was this behaviour towards me abusive or was I a push over?

Often he would touch me even if i had said i didn't want to have sex till i either gave in and did or if i didn't he got moody and would either make more attempts or be so crappy I'd feel like i had to make a move and make him believe i now wanted to if i had said ofgs make it quick he would get angry so either i kept quiet and then had to pretend i was enjoying it or once again convince him i did want to really i haven't spoken about this in rl as genuinely dont know if it waz just me being a bit spineless.

The point is you told him you didn't want sex. Anything after that is abuse regardless of whether you went along with it or not. It is possibly rape, probably sexual assault, definitely emotional abuse. Sorry.

sense, at this point remember that you are OUT of that situation. I'm not minimizing at all, but remember that you need to focus ahead, not behind.

I think the issue of sexual coercion within a marriage is a very difficult one. Certainly I've said 'yes' when I really wasn't 'into it', but so has my DH when he wasn't. Neither of us would consider that we had been sexually assaulted. Just the marital 'give and take', no difference than seeing a movie we didn't really want to see just to please the other. But both of us have said a definite 'No' at times to the other, too, and that answer has been accepted with no further blandishments. I was sexually assaulted by my first husband during our marriage and it was a VERY different kettle of fish! In that case, my 'no' was disregarded and he 'carried on' regardless of my feelings or 'readiness'. Only you can decide which scenario your situation fell in.

I hope the access is going a bit easier for DCs. Bouncy castle, eh? Sounds like a bribe to me! A pretty expensive one, at that! Ha, if he can afford that, he can afford to keep paying what he has been!

daughter thank you

across for the most part I do look forward but sometimes I will read something or see something and its like a penny dropping and I think god I allowed that to happen or I think was that what happened to me. Hard to say though he didn't carry on regardless but neither did he take no for an answer. I would say no turn away to go to sleep then he would start touching me sometimes without saying anything others saying oh come on. I often felt like I had to let him or he would go in a mood and make me feel unloved once or twice I just hadn't the energy for an argument so said no but let him get on with it.

Contact is okish still ds behavior goes funny on return and he will say he has a sore tummy prior to handover. Im dreading next week as its the 6th week and I think he will push for increased contact Im not sure ds is ready I gently asked would he like to see more of ex or was he happy with way things are he was sure it was the latter.

I do agree that what he did was wrong. No means no. What I meant is that now that you are out of that situation, don't go looking for more issues than you are already dealing with. Perhaps later, once access and the children are all settled and you are not dealing with that stress, it will be time for you to address other issues within yourself about him. Children first. You need to be able to deal with him calmly for the sake of the children. Later, perhaps you can do some short term counseling to talk through what you, yourself, went through.

Bless little DS, it will take awhile. I'm sure he does have a 'sore tummy'. That's exactly where stress hits me! Here's a thought; it may be better to have someone else ask him about seeing more of his father. Perhaps his SW or your parents? No matter how hard you try to make things seem 'ok', they are perceptive little creatures and he may very well answer in the way he thinks you want to hear.

He seems similar to my cousin's child. They had a bit of an acrimonious divorce. Even though they tried very, very hard to not show anything in from of the children, her daughter seemed to sense things. When she was with Mummy she said she didn't want to see Daddy. When she was with Daddy, she said she didn't want to go home. All in the name of wanting to please the parent she was with. At that age it really means nothing as far as their 'heart's desire'. Just the fear that a parent would 'leave her' if she didn't make them think they were her 'favorite'. It took both parents sitting down together (with a counselor) to help her sort it out.

Thanks across I asked his support worker today and she when he had spoke to him about dad told me ds said he was happy with things as they are. Unfortunately I know they can't stay the same forever but as this is the 5th week I was trying to gauge how he feels and Im leaning towards another couple of weeks of 1 day but suggesting he arrange to have couple of Sunday's off rather than a few hours after school but am worried ex will kick off I doubt ex realises just how much I am putting the dc 1st if I was looking out for myself I would just tell him to get lost and not darken my doorstep again! So help how do you put to an unreasonable bully the above proposition?

And yes I am burying a few things he did that are not good to make sure dc get sorted.

Stupid phone! I think there may be a lot to surface as yet. I have never felt such hatred for another living thing. The hatred is newish not used to being angry I usually keep the peace.

The anger is pretty normal. You're just following the stages of grief after a break up. You just have to be sure you keep in tamped down around DCs and not go off on Ex.

All you can do is tell him that you feel it's too soon to increase access. If he's going to kick off, let him. That's not your problem and certainly doesn't help him get more access. And I certainly don't feel it's unreasonable for him to rearrange work for a Sunday. That's much better than disrupting DS's school routine, at least it is to me. On school days I think children need routine and a quiet place to do homework, even if they are very young & all they have to do is a work page or some spelling words. Plus they need to be able to keep to their meal- and bedtime schedules.

Hi across sorry I've not been back in so long have tried to post several times but failed.

Can't say things are much better tbh ex continues to be difficult for the sake of it or at least it feels that way. I asked for a set day for contact with dc as feel the lack of this is what is stalling progress that he presumably wants towards 2 days a week and eventual overnights with the only day I would not be flexible with a Saturday. I got a no and "I expect on my days off to see the dc" so dance to his tune again I replied to tell him I was already being flexible and that this arrangement was providing no routine for the dc and I was offering half of every weekend and 1 Saturday a month. Also that if this couldn't be agreed the only option was to go back down legal route no reply in a week so back to solicitors today he has the dc on Saturday though. Someone talk some sense in to me, I'm scared of the reaction the letter will get but as he wouldn't agree to anything stable what else could I do? I keep thinking oh s**t he is going to play some really crappy games when he gets the letter. My parents say I've done the right thing have I? Honestly I'm still having self doubt especially when ds is unhappy when he asks about something and I try to be honest but then think God should I have said that or should I have asked him that. It's like he is in my head again saying see u r the problem not me and Im wondering if it is me shouldn't things be getting easier by now?

Ds has been withdrawn after returning the last couple of times, when asked indirectly says he doesn't know why. So then asked what was wrong as I could tell something was said couldn't tell me then when asked was it something that was said says strange things like sometimes people get mixed up and get shouty when they are trying to be happy don't know what to make of that?

Hi OP. If he is messing with ds's head you need to find a way to stop it. You might need to confront him with the definition of child abuse and explain that emotional abuse against a child is child abuse.

Try to get everything ds says recorded, maybe get him to do a video diary? Even if you write down what he says it might help. Your solicitor should also be informed of this.

I have a feeling that DS and his father may have discussed him being shouty. Possibly he was trying to explain the separation to DS in a way that made him (father) appear in the best possible light. The 'shouty when they are trying to be happy' sounds like a child's understanding of an adult trying to explain 'shouty-ness'. Or along the lines of 'I'm not unhappy, I didn't mean to be shouty' or 'sometimes even happy people can be shouty'. Children can really misunderstand adults at times. It's best when he says these things to just nod and perhaps say 'And do you have any questions about that?'. I don't think I'd record or video DS. It will make him feel he's being interrogated or otherwise self-conscious. Quietly writing things down later should be enough. No matter what, you don't want to make him feel he is 'tattling' or 'betraying' his father. That will come back to bite you.

It would be preferable to have a specific schedule for visits. But if his work schedule is constantly changing (beyond his ability to control) then allowance has to be made for that. But I do think he should let you know his days off as soon as he receives his schedule. I wouldn't look at it as 'dancing to his tune', rather 'dancing to his employer's tune' if it's beyond his control. OTOH if he does have the ability to have regularly scheduled days off, then he should do so. Your parents are right, a court order may be the way to go.

Don't doubt yourself, you have your children's best interests at heart. As long as you aren't slagging off his father and you keep telling DS that you both love him and want the best for him, he'll be fine.

Hi for some reason I'm having trouble posting lately. I think that something has happened to make him say that I said well happy people don't shout that people usually only shout if they are angry or there is danger I couldn't think what to say at the time but didn't want him to think it was ok for anyone to shout like ex used to.

The next few weeks are going to be hard I seen my solicitor for advice re access and what my proposals have been and he is sending a letter out but I think ex will get nasty once it hits he only worked 1 Sunday a month when we were together so I don't know why they are an issue now I had suggested he have them 3 Sunday's then a Saturday on the 4th week when he was due to work. I just don't understand why he is being so difficult about it. As far as I know he still want to aim for 2 overnights a week but to get there the dc need to be settled and what is happening just now is not achieving that which is why I suggested above am I wrong? I'm actually trying to facilitate things moving forward as much as I don't want to but he just can't see it.

Remember, you've always worried about him kicking off at solicitor's letters and he really hasn't (IIRC) other than his solicitor responding, which is to be expected. So don't worry. And remember also that you do not have to talk to him at all. I'm sure your dad would talk to him for you if ex decided to be argumentative or loud, although I doubt if he would in your parent's home. It's expected that he may disagree with your proposals. That's not getting nasty, really. Getting nasty would be abusive phone calls, showing up at the door and yelling, or sending vile letters. Remember, love, that you lived on tippy-toes around him for a long time trying to avoid his temper. You need to keep telling yourself that you are 'safe'. That you are not living with him and that if he does get shouty all you have to do is shut the door or hang up the phone.

As far as the Sundays, why someone would want to work on Sunday if they didn't have to is a mystery to me. You'd think he'd be eager to get his schedule changed. Could it be possible that his employer is not being as flexible? If that's it, you'd think he'd just tell you. Does he get paid more to work a Sunday? I think it's that he feels he has no control over the situation and the Sunday thing is his attempt to 'push back'. Silly, if you ask me.

across I don't think he would do anything obvious it will be underhand and manipulative that's how he works I fully expect him to come back with he can't do every Sunday and I'd offered every 3-4 weeks to have a Saturday and said I could accommodate most days besides a Saturday as it is the only non school day I can do things with ds. I'm Thinking he knows this as it has always been like that and I've said again but it seems like to me if I disagree with a date and offer an alternative he will then ask for 2 Saturdays in a row as if to punish me. I'm not sure how flexible his employer is however as I've had to change my days at my employers reluctance I know that there are rules around parents with young dc that mean if he explained the situation they would have to have a very good written explanation big why they could not accommodate this and most employers wish to be seen as family friendly and do accommodate requests like that. He is salaried so no reason there why he is touchy about Sunday's. I'm willing for it to be a day during the week of that suits him better the only thing I've insisted on is having a Saturday with ds. Is it me I feel like I'm doing my best to be fair and have only asked for 1 day that's a no yet he seems to think his dc should be fitted in around his job not that that's a new thing it was that way when we were together except it was all of us that fit in around the job. I'm such a fool I'm hoping for a reasonable response from an unreasonable person

If I were in his shoes I'd bite his hand off to have every Sunday and would do everything in my power to make it happen.

I think the most he should expect is 2 Weekends per month. That would be equal for the both of you. There's no reason he can't rearrange 2 Sundays so the two of you can split the weekends, each having two Saturdays and 2 Sundays. That's perfectly reasonable. And it NOT reasonable of him to demand the next 2 Saturdays because he misses one day!

But do try not to personalize his behaviour. Just think of it as him being unreasonable rather than as 'punishing' you. It's giving him too much power over your emotions.

I do think you need to get a court order or some legally binding agreement. It would stop his demands as he would have to go by what the court says.

across I am as hard as it is trying to be reasonable I work every Sunday he unfortunately knows this as it provides a large chuck of my income I can't afford to change it and have already changed a day to suit the needs of the dc so that either me or my mum is always available to look after them, I had to go through policies and union reps to achieve this. When we were together he had 3 out of 4 Sunday's off and i said I would give him the other week as a Saturday. Even supposing he now does every other Sunday to still do above he would only need to ask to change 1 day a month surely this is not too much to ask of someone who claims to want to see his dc.

The main point is though that having the do every Sunday would provide stability especially for ds and I think that this would mean access could progress to twice a week and eventually overnights just now I can't see that happening as the days change each week and the dc are unsettled I can't plan things much in advance as I have no idea what days he will want to have them that's another reason I've been sticking to my guns about Saturday's as at least I can plan to do things on them since I've said only 1 in 3-4
Please does this get easier? I'm not being overly difficult I don't think?

I understand completely. I guess it all has to do with his 'ability' to get Sundays off. That's why I think you'd be better off with a court order. If the court orders (because his employer will cooperate) access on 3 Sundays/1 Saturday then there can't be any further arguments from him. You may also remind him that a lot of your income is made on Sundays so if he insists on Saturdays and you 'have' to change your work schedule to accommodate that (since you also want full weekend days with DCs), then it may end up that he'll have to pay more maintenance since your income will drop.

Easier? Hard to say. Absent a court order he can always try to jerk you around by demanding 'this day' instead of 'that day' or two days because he didn't get a certain day or not showing up when you have other plans since he was supposed to have them then demanding a 'make up day'. But even with a court order there's usually something to complain about if he really wants to be a 'poopyhead' about things. A lot of men end up losing interest in access after awhile, only you know if he's that type. If so, you may be able to wait things out until he loses interest. I'd say, though, that even if he did, I think his mother would probably insist he keep it up so she can see the children. I can't say that I'd blame her on that. I don't have DGC (yet, fingers crossed) but I can certainly see myself doing that if I were in that situation.

Seriously, I think you need to talk to your solicitor about the likely scenario of a court order because I don't think you'll solve it any other way. XP is going to push back on anything you suggest just because he knows it 'gets to you'. What does your sol think would be the result of going to court under the assumption that XP would fight what you want. Would you end up with what you want? 50/50? What XP wants? And is having to 'give a little' if a judge orders 50/50 weekends worth the peace you will have of him not being able to argue and demand changes? I think it would be to me, but you have to decide that for yourself.

I haven't been on here for a long time but I need to remind myself of why I've made my life so hard and actually need a boot in the bum most likely.

The overwhelming feeling for a long time was relief with moments of doubt and guilt now I just feel sad a lot of the time. I miss him I think i possibly still love him and that makes me mad with myself! What is wrong with me?!

I'm still trying to establish a routine in regards to access so things are still not settled and fairly tense. He still does not speak to me at pick up/drop off.
He was at the same place as me on a rare night out last weekend neither of us attempted to talk to the other again a little awkward although I still had a good night thanks to my friend.
Help how do I get over these feelings? How do I move on to a place where I no longer care? does it ever get better?