I've left please hold my hand

[notmakingsense]

Hi I have previously posted about my well I guess now my ex partner. This is my previous thread www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/2062136-need-advice-long

So last night we wound up having another argument and it all came out so now ive left with no legal advice though hopefully I wont need it. Im feeling incredibly guilty as he was so shocked and its the 1st time ive seen any emotion other than anger he said he would seek help about his anger issues and stop shouting so much but I just cant stay.

I hope he does get help and work through whatever is causing it but I still think separating is for best as it was/is badly affecting eldest dc and I have completely switched off from him to cope with to the point where I just dont care about him but I feel so bad that he is hurting and im so confused is feeling like that normal? A part of me keeps saying what of your wrong and the things he says about my contributing to his anger by being soft with dc and neurotic with money are right. Im changing everyones life. I was so sure before it actually happened now im having moments of doubt

If the DCs are going through anything it's because he was creating a big scene and dragging the poor things into it. Saying the breakdown is your fault is like saying that a person who walks away from a snarling dog is cruel to animals. Nonsense.

Regarding your DCs and picking them up from school I think you tell him that, after his last performance, it's best if he waits. Yes, the DCs should spend time with him but he needs to get that anger management underway and calm down first. The children need a period of stability and quiet, not being exposed to more hysterics.

You're in charge now.

OP you are at your parents, yes? So would your father answer the door and tell him it's not a good moment, you are busy right now, he can drop you an email, take care, bye, and shut the door.

It would give you a little breathing space, and as Cog so wisely advised you will have a record of his behaviour.

If he does rattle off an accusing bullying email read it as if it where a random newspaper story about a stranger. You don't know the people involved, it's not directed at you but you can keep a copy of the story to show people, like a solicitor.

Take care and stay strong.

When my mother left my father he was also stunned, couldn't believe she wasn't willing to work at saving the marriage etc etc, but she'd spent 40 years putting up with his shit. I'll repeat that -

forty years

Does he behave the way he does towards you with all of his friends?

Has he spent the past 8 years shouting at all of his friends, making all of his friends feel they are in the wrong? Or does he reserve that special treatment for the friend he values above all the others?

adorabelle - 'couldn't believe she wasn't willing to work at saving the marriage etc etc' - you mean STFU and carry on as normal? 40 years? Wow.

OP - the worst thing you can do in a breakup is involve the dc in your (you and dp) dialogue. They don't need or want to know how you think of your ex, or what you think of their behaviour, or feel in anyway responsible for relaying any messages from one to the other. He has already crossed that line. Re picking them up from school - I suggest you make it known to him that until he can refrain from slagging you off, from commenting on your (new) life, from making sly mentions of what you should be doing (for his benefit) - then he will not be seeing them alone.

Exactly Captain

adora yes at my parents but they are helping so much it would seem unfair to ask anymore of them.

My poor ds is complaining of tummy aches has a touch of thd runs but I think its stress

Why do I feel such guilt?? I keep saying I have done the right thing haven't I? Was I partly to blame? I was obsessive about money completely but it doesn't excuse his treatment of poor ds.

Fuck this is soo hard.

Yes, it's probably stress but please don't stress yourself over that. DCs feel the stress of a marriage that isn't wirking if you try to keep up appearances. I used to have panic attacks as a child.

Can I suggest that you encourage DS to express what he is feeling, even if he can't articulate it. My DDs have diaries and something I call a tantrum box, they write down what's bugging them and put it in a shoe box. They are preteens though. Your DS might get on better with drawing or using toys for role play. His school could possibly help with this.

It will get easier as the days and weeks go by. Stay d
Strong and be kind to yourself.

Thanks adora he came up after he finished work tonight again he at least came in tonight so wasnt alone with them but fuck its so hard and akward ds wanted to see him so I couldn't say no he still looks like hell I feel terrible.

He told ds he would collect him from school weds and he could stay with daddy for the night if he wanted ds of course said yes but have a feeling he won't be so keen on Wednesday but I feel to say no would seem unecessarily difficult as thus is his day off this week. He didnt mention whether he would want to take dd too but I suspect not or at least not for overnight as she is only 1 and is fairly demanding. Hell im dreading it and I know that he has to have time with them too but im already feeling sick at the thought of being apart from ds someone tell me it will be ok please im not a selfish person for feeling this way am I? I just hope ds copes with it ok.

It will be ok, in time. Any change is hard. Any adjustment takes time. Things will be scary and emotional for awhile until you work out your 'new normal'.

It takes two to make or break a marriage. But the bottom line is that we all have a right to decide what we will or will not accept in our life. So you think you were a little obsessive with money. So what? If your H felt that way he had a choice to leave or to ask you (in a constructive way) to go to counseling with him. Instead he chose to shout, pout, & wear you out. You have decided that you don't want to live with his temper & feel like you have reached the point of no return. Fair enough. You both probably could have done certain things differently, but that gets you nowhere now. You must look ahead now, not back.

Right now you need to focus on your dcs. Don't worry about what you did in the past. Focus on loving your children, carving out a new routine for them, and seeing that you & H are able to reassure them that life will go on.

Thanks across u just feel so badly for ds and right now feel like the "baddy" but your right it sucked the love I had for him out of me I could have told him more often how I was feeling but then if you get told that you are talking crap as the normal response then why would you. I have always been careful with money but when had to move jobs twice in less than 6 months and at one point was looking at being out of work that tipped me over edge I sought help fairly quickly though to try and resolve it and when prescribed ads was told that I was being unreasonable to worry so much as we were fine true but unhelpful and that he could gets ads too if he went to gp a few times! At the final argument I used this as an example of lack of support and got how do you know im not depressed!! I can now think of examples where he has been careless and cost us fairly large chunks of money eg parking inappropriately resulting in car being impounded but when I done something like locked keys in house (inner door with snib) he got angry and had me in tears when in reality all we had to do was replace door even that didn't cost thanks to help from friends.

I do think those closest to him have been bearing the brunt of his stress which isn't fair. I hope for dc sake he does follow through with getting help that way they will have a good relationship. Why do I still feel sad and guilty??

notmakingsense My exH and I separated a couple of years ago. He had an affair (which was, of course, my fault, and the final nail in the coffin) but the whole marriage had been EA.

He didn't turn up on the doorstep pleading for me to take him back. He tried a couple of things but I was so angry, it didn't work.

Anyway, you really need to listen to Cog and, more importantly, ignore the little voice that's telling you that these people are all strangers and they don't know your husband; or that they can't see what he's like; or they don't know what he's feeling... I thought the same, but sadly, they do.

I only realised after he'd gone just how debilitating living with him had been. I felt like I couldn't leave him/kick him out because I wouldn't have been able to cope without him. I was terrified of opening the post/answering the phone/securing the house before we went on holiday/making decisions...

Yet it was only because that what how it suited him for me to feel. It suited him for me to be nervous and incapable. And after he'd gone, do you know what? None of those things were true about me anymore, but he did say a few things to try and keep me dependent on him, but with that little bit of space, I could see them clearly for what they were.

The shows of emotion, the doorstep begging, the tears, the manipulating your children... are all intended to break you down and have you go back to him. But not because he really loves you, but because he is absolutely outraged that you have had the nerve to do this.

Thanks folkgirl its just so so hard right now its like when he says it im looking totally unreasonable as he is willing to do whatever it takes but im not I have a friend who works for a solicitor she is going to see if he will speak to me but I have no idea what to ask? I dont think I want to fight over the money in joint account just want to be as amicable as possible to reduce the effects on dc and him coming to see them shouldn't be a problem but im finding it hard to be around him just now because im just waiting on the please give us another shoy I love u etc I dont know whether I need a hug or a boot up the bum!!

Ask the solicitor what would be fair. 'Amicable to reduce the effects on the DCs' sounds like you're planning to let him roll you over for a quiet life and that would be a serious mistake. What you agree to now, including the contents of the joint account, will determine your and your DCs future for quite some time so it's important. You're upset, he's putting pressure on you with his Crocodile Tears and I can see that you want it all to be over with quickly. So get the advice, get support, then give yourself chance to think & breathe before deciding how to proceed.

Also ask what would be a fair way to organise access that means you do not have to be in contact given his abusive behaviour.

Remember... nothing but essential contact. 'Please give me another chance'... you're not interested.

not....you've already done whatever it takes. You've probably spent years doing it.

He may promise to do something now to save your relationship, but there is no relationship to save thanks to his previous actions. Remember - you don't owe him a relationship whatever he does. And the odds are very high that he'll promise but do nothing anyway. He just wants you back under his control. That's what a relationship is, to him.

It will be hard to be around him, so try your best not to be around him. Your relationship is over. If you have to discuss something essential, discuss it, then leave at once. If he starts the 'give me another chance' routine, leave at once. Better to stick to text or email if you can.

You're doing well, keep strong now

cog spot on I just want it all sorted because as it is I keep doubting myself. Am I selfish how did I wind up like this why cant I just say I don't love you anymore. In between episodes things were ok but since dd came along its become obvious I do sorry did everything and was never right about anything unless I could prove it. I should have stood up for myself more but thats not how it should be

I just dont know if its fair on dc to say please dont come to see them. If its fair that he only gets a couple of overnights a week but I dont think anymore would be good for dc.

Right now your top priority is yourself. Even before your DCs. In order to be a good parent to your DCs and to be fair to your DCs you need to be thinking clearly and acting calmly. Him turning up keeps causing you and the DCs enormous upset and anxiety and therefore he has to be kept at a distance until you have found your feet.

IT IS NOT SELFISH.... to put yourself first. If it feels that way it's because he's still there like an annoying insect, buzzing away, telling you that you are being selfish and causing you to have doubts. You don't have to say you don't love him any more because a) it's very obvious and b) he doesn't really care whether you love him or not.

Thanks cog I unfortunately am getting snippets of info from mutual friends and his aunt who is keeping in touch that he knows its his fault that he is very upset and that he feels its all moving very quickly like my saying I wont be keeping on glat looking at new schools etc but its how I cope by ensuring practical things get done.

Hopefully I will get some legal advice this week as I really haven't a clue.

I know you've said that your parents are already doing so much, you can't ask them to do more but actually you can, and you should - they will want to protect you from hurt as much as possible, and right now this man is still hurting you. He might have changed the method - but he's still causing you grief.

Ask your parents to answer the door to him, tell him you're not available, you don't want to speak to him right now etc. If he wants to see the DC then I'm quite sure that one of your parents can be hovering nearby, if they can't bear to be in the actual same room as him.

Take a break from seeing him. Go to the solicitor and ask what you should be getting - please please please believe that as soon as he realises this split is "real" he will turn nasty and try and tie down the money to minimise what you can get - so you need to know what your "due" is, and you need to ask for that, no less. It's for your DC after all!

At some point soon you do have to tell him that there is no hope, that you no longer love him, that he has bullied the love out of you and that if he has any sense, he'll change his bullying ways before he bullies the love out of his DC as well - but do that when you're ready. In the meantime, try and avoid seeing/speaking directly to him.

Well done for leaving.

Tell mutual friends you don't want to know and tell the meddling auntie to do the same thing. Everyone has doubts when they make big life-changing decisions so be with people who like you, love you and agree with you.

YY x 3 to getting legal advice!! Can't stress enough that you need to secure your financial future! As a SAHM you are particularly vulnerable, unless you have a trade or qualifications you can fall back on in the event you need to seek employment. The only salvation my cousin had when her X walked out on her was the fact that she had kept her dental hygiene certificate current, even though she was a SAHM. And thumb is right, remember that you are dealing with a man who has a history of anger problems. I hate to sound cynical, but I think you'd be well advised to get the finances sorted whilst he may still be feeling that if he 'plays nice' you'll come back, iyswim. He's indicated in the past that he doesn't value your contribution to your marriage (home-keeping) so you can be sure he'll be one of the arses who feel it's 'his money/property' because 'he earned it' & you 'never worked for it'. This is exactly what my cousin went through.

And Cog is right, also. Tell people you don't want to know what he's thinking/doing, unless it will impact you or the children, such as hiding money or saying he's going to try to take the children.

Now is the time to 'gird your loins' and look the future square in the face. No more doubting yourself, love, move forward.

Ok so he has just left after turning up again!! Im in bits fucking bits he acknowledged he has been emotionally abusing me says he is sorry for that etc but ive got to take the blame for my part I sat in house only doing school runs I could have gone to toddlers or gone out for lunch etc and this is the killer he wants to see the kids every day! So wise people im unsure if im putting myself here 1st but I just dont want this but when I tried to say that he turned it on me saying how would I feel if I could only see them on my alloted days and if thats the case then when he has a weekend off he will be taking them for the full weekend which he knew wwold upset me as sat is the only non school day I dont work fuck fuck fuck re finances I stupidly had let him have car this week as he said he would pay it this month but now says if I want it back at end of week I must take over the payments and that we will get final figures for payments and split them 50/50 this when in joint account there is over 7k and car is 205 a month total bills 840 I guess to be fair I have 3k in my current account but all the same its now 'his' money thebutter cunt.

Is it unreasonable to say no not everyday to seeing dc im going to get legal advice tommorow one way or another I cant take much more of this torment.

sense please take note! The worm is already starting to turn with him & he's starting to get angry, basically holding the car to ransom. Make no agreements until you have seen the solicitor!

I don't think it's unreasonable to say no to every day contact. Just too much too'ing and fro'ing for them.

*to'ing, not too'ing!

I should have listened to you all and got legal advice straight away like yesterday im so stupid so fucking stupid. He turned up at my parents door I was out with my dad and dc at park my mum only said they r out at park id not taken my mobile so he must have went looking for us!! I feel like im being stalked!

I tried to say that a couple of nights a week was normal for nrp but he turned this back ob me saying how would I feel if I only got to see them twice a week and I know it would destroy me but I just dont think nipping in to see them every day is feasible either. Or would he get this at court? I plan on getting an emergency docs appointment tommorow I think I need to log the emotional abuse with a professional

It does sound a bit stalkerish, doesn't it? And following you to the park? NO. In future, it'd probably be better if he was just told that you were 'out, not sure where' if you are not at home. He no longer has the right to know where you are & what you are doing.

I do understand where he's coming from, it would kill me too, but he just needs to realize there will have to be boundaries. His insisting that he has the right to just show up any time he pleases smacks of a large sense of entitlement and disregard for you. And a way of being in control.

I know you say your parents have done so much & you hate to ask, but I think it's time for them (as the property owners) to tell H that it is their home and that he is not to just 'drop by' any time he chooses, he is to call first.