I've left please hold my hand

[notmakingsense]

Hi I have previously posted about my well I guess now my ex partner. This is my previous thread www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/2062136-need-advice-long

So last night we wound up having another argument and it all came out so now ive left with no legal advice though hopefully I wont need it. Im feeling incredibly guilty as he was so shocked and its the 1st time ive seen any emotion other than anger he said he would seek help about his anger issues and stop shouting so much but I just cant stay.

I hope he does get help and work through whatever is causing it but I still think separating is for best as it was/is badly affecting eldest dc and I have completely switched off from him to cope with to the point where I just dont care about him but I feel so bad that he is hurting and im so confused is feeling like that normal? A part of me keeps saying what of your wrong and the things he says about my contributing to his anger by being soft with dc and neurotic with money are right. Im changing everyones life. I was so sure before it actually happened now im having moments of doubt

across your right he is already playing the sympathy card and making out like he is the injured party I'm sure and people are buying it! So long as the head teacher can see through the manipulative charm offensive it will be OK I guess as I don't care what his family/friends think! If they are happy to buy it and be manipulated then more fool them though it shakes my confidence a bit so I block it out or try to

Honestly I have moments of thinking how the hell did I get here and will I be happy again!

I'm not so sure people are completely buying it, sense. People will appear to 'buy it' during the divorce process waiting to see what happens. They don't necessarily want to alienate either party because they really don't know how it will end or who is telling the truth in some cases. For all they know the 'unhappy couple' will reconcile & they don't want to be in the position of having said derogatory things about either person. So, they sit on the fence. I know you are having friends do that very thing.

IMHO, head teachers probably are pretty savvy and intuitive about parents. I don't think they get to that position by being naive & gullible. If nothing else, the Head will view both of you with some reservations for awhile, until things become more clear.

How the hell you got here was because you were desperately unhappy and you were seeing the effects of his behaviour on your children, so you took action. The correct action, my dear. As hard as it is now, I think you are more happy than unhappy. You are in a peaceful environment, no more living on tenterhooks with his attitude. Your children are in a loving home with no upsets. Yes, there are worries and the occasional 'bump' from him or friends, but at the end of the day you are safe and peaceful. And it will get more so as you get things settled.

across thanks I do hope your right about the head teacher and thanks for reassuring me I know I've done the best thing its just hard when it feels like others are seeing you as a bitch and or unreasonable. I'm happy in between dealing with him and worrying about when contact starts a how it will affect dc and b how the hell im going to do apart from them

Letter goes out today and I think there will be some push back this time as it tells him he must pay the maintenance his initial reply says he is doing and pay the arrears it also states that he hasn't seen dc since the split nor made any attempt to (which is worrying as he did have them once, when ds had to be returned and then was physically sick on return) but he hasn't seen them in over a month and hasn't emailed me asking for access which is apparently the point the solicitor is making. It says given this that although we are offering 2 overnights a week this may require to built up to which I expect will anger him and his family as they will feel its my fault he hasn't seem them. It also asks for clarification on why he feels the need to have a meeting with headteacher wow im expecting him to up his game after this dreading it

So his meeting at school is Monday and I've found out today Sports day is next week so now im going to have to speak to head teacher to ask if he will be getting told about as I will have to keep him off is so as he and his mum and sister possibly even aunts would turn up and I dont want ds upset which is the likely outcome if that happened god its such a mess!!

Re the letter - he has not arranged access for himself, so he cannot be angry with you for not allowing access! Who cares what his family think - he has not arranged to see his own dc. It is not your fault he hasn't seen them.

Things really need to be clarified, for dc more than anyone else. If ex doesn't want to have contact, it is not acceptable for him and family to turn up at sportsdays etc. Himself, yes but not the entire family. Not good for ds.

I'm sure you're probably right that he will kick up a fuss, but remember that you are fighting for your DCs AND that this is what your solicitor is being paid the 'big bucks' for. To deal with him if he becomes unreasonable. And that you have your lovely parents to support you. This is also where you remember that you don't need to answer his phone calls, and that you have a nice, solid door that can be shut with him on the outside!

As far as Sports Day, I would expect that the head may have to tell him if he's asked to be kept in the loop about school things. And remember that as of right now, Head has no 'valid' reason to exclude him. There are no court orders & he hasn't 'kicked off' at the school and made a scene, nor has Head witnessed DS being upset by him. We know the true situation, but Head has to go on what he/she has seen. As hard as it may be, you may need to just 'gird your loins' and hope for the best. I do agree that it would be best if he & his family didn't show up 'en masse' though. That could be overwhelming for DS and would certainly make me feel, I don't know, ganged up on? But again, at this point I don't know what you can really do other than breathe deep and hope for the best. Just go to Sports Day and keep an eye on DS. If he appears upset or you see/hear things not in his best interest, intervene and remove him from the situation if you have to. Remember, that you were strong enough to leave your stbx, you are certainly strong enough to remove one small boy from the schoolyard.

Hopefully you and I are doing that 'worrywart' thing we do so well and seeing trouble where none exists! Fingers crossed, right?

captain yep it is his own problem he hasn't arranged to see them but I don't know for sure what he is telling others. Chinese whispers possibly but he supposedly said that id got a solicitor and would not allow him to see dc every day (true) but implied that he would have to wait till it was all through solicitors and he would have to wait and "see them as soon as he could" (not true) I'm sure he is likely giving everyone the she just upped and left and now wont let me see the dc and will sell the access he gets eventually as his victory that he pushed hard for! I actually don't think him being there would be a good idea at the moment he was very rarely there for plays etc when we were together so wouldn't be the norm and he wouldn't come by himself he would have his mum n sister with him at the very least!!

Sports days are one of those things where the entire family do tend to turn up to cheer on small children! Unlike the plays/nativities/assemblies where seats are restricted. Across is right, you may have to bite your lip and just concentrate on ds.

What he is saying is of no consequence to you. He can tell people what he likes; in a few months it will be forgotten. Or at least not important. If he has mis-understood the solicitor that is his stupidity. It's not your job to inform him. You can't do anything about what he is telling people, anyway. Dignified silence to those not 'needing to know'.

That was part of my reasoning across and captain that was my thoughts that not having seen him for a month that it would too much for them to be there for sports day so I spoke to head who said that if he asks he will told to ask me for the dates times so really hope they stick to that for ds but partly for me I could do without a face to face with ex as he always manges to shake my confidence and make me feel small and yes I would feel ganged up on

It sounds as if the school is really good about cooperating in these situations. If he does ask, will you have the confidence to ask him to come by himself? I think you will need to tread carefully as far as asking him not to come at all, although I can see why you'd feel that way. You don't want to be seen as trying to keep him away from ds. In a way, it may be better for ds to see him in a crowd, as it were. There will be distractions for ds, it will be a happy event, and it will keep X from saying things in public to ds that may be less than beneficial, iyswim.

a happy event- I mean that there will be fun things going on for ds and happy crowds of people.

across of I'm honest I'm hoping that he wont ask the head teacher and if he does that he then won't ask me as he hasn't asked about access fingers crossed anyway I don't know that I'm strong enough to face him I feel a bit sick thinking about it. Had he been remorseful and accepted he was the reason I left and then give me space and agreed to the 2 overnights that I'm now offering then there would have been no need for solicitors etc

For the moment I think id rather he stayed away to be honest. I guess that makes me selfish but I cant help it I want to relax and enjoy watching ds not be dreading it

Only normal. None of us like drama or confrontation in our lives. And none of us like to feel uncomfortable when all we want to do relax.

If he does want to come, remember that there is always a 'first time' in situations like this and that (if nothing else) it's good to get that 'first time' over with! And remember, too, that those 'first times' are rarely as bad as we think they will be and that we usually feel rather silly for dreading them so much. You will be fine and hopefully I'm safe to say that he won't want to raise a scene in front of all the other parents. In fact, being Mr Charm, he'll probably be on his best behaviour! You'll see through it of course, but if nothing else, it'll make things easier than if he acted the fool.

across I'm just hoping he doesn't come at all and the next time I will need to think about anything like that is if they have a Christmas play. Or he leaves it late to ask and its already been and gone. If he is done with the puppy dog eyes and please take me back then I expect the arrogant pr**k that he has been to others occasionally going out of his way to try and make me feel uncomfortable. Sad but true if I won tje lotto tonight a trip to florida would no longer be top of my list!

Im fucking furious!! Ex seen my mum and dad walking with dc stopped in the car he was driving and called ds over! My mum then said as its in hands of solicitors I cant allow this while dc are under my care he got very arrogant and aggressive with her saying I will speak to my dc in the street whenever he wants she cant stop him so my mum said well as you haven't seen them it isn't appropriate to pull up and call over ds he said well it isnt my fault I havent seen them?! I honestly hate the man. I have asked ds what he said and at 1st he said daddy told him he would see him tommorow?! Very suspicious of his motives around school and visits now but what do I do??

It was very wrong of him to create a scene in front of DC. And typical of an arrogant man who thinks the world revolves around him.

As far as what he said to ds about seeing him tomorrow, I think you have to walk a fine line between not allowing him to show up willy-nilly and appearing to deny access. I wouldn't contact him about it, I'd just wait and see if he shows up. At that point you can either allow him to see ds for a short period or tell him that it is not convenient now and shall we arrange a mutually acceptable time? I do think, however, that I would be there early for the end of the school day just in case he decides to try to pick him up after school. I don't know if children there are picked up in the classroom or just released to the schoolyard to meet up with the parents.

I think he hasn't attempted contact as he doesn't want to be 'told' by anyone (i.e. you) when he can see him. It's a control issue. He sees you as trying to 'control' him rather than trying to just figure out a future schedule. Hence the 'I can show up whenever I bloody feel like it or you are denying me access' attitude. That's got to be nipped in the bud, absolutely, but it needs to be replaced with a schedule of access, even if it's an informal one prior to the court orders. Then if he refuses to abide by the schedule, it isn't you denying access, it's him being an arse.

I think if he does show up unannounced you need to tell him ONCE that he must call beforehand to make arrangements. And that if he does it again you will refer the matter to your solicitor for possible police intervention.

across I cant believe or I can that he spoke like that in front of dc he also tried to get a dig in about dd as she had a tiny scratch on her hand from her own nail she had caught

He hasn't contacted me dont think he will and to be honest he has had 6 weeks to ask to see them he hasn't so he can talk to my solicitor i'm done being nice while he is being underhand and sneaky. Its not at the courts yet just trying to get an agreement re access between solicitors thats why the letter went out friday. I wish he would grow up or dissappear preferably the latter so dc and me can have a nice quiet life.

Hope all went quietly today, sense. I bet myself a G&T that he never showed.

across he didn't at the house but I don't know about the school as ds was complaining of tummy ache which I think is just the upset but as I was also concerned I caved and let him stay with me. I'm worried still obviously solicitor has said that my mum should just walk away with dc If approached by him and if he follows or makes a scene call the police. As he was intimidating but not shouting we cant get him done with breach of peace mores the pity.

So how do you explain to a 6 year old that while he is with granny if daddy approaches you cant go to him as he is a complete dick to granny and once again being underhand?

That's awful, Sense. I get the feeling he is not so bothered about seeing the dc (unless they are literally right in front of him) but more interested in using them as a stick to beat you with. Hence the 'she won't let me see them' .

The sooner it is sorted with solicitors/court, the better for your dc. Then everyone will know where they stand.

I agree with captain, this is all about control; either you allow him to come and go as he pleases or he will scream 'access denied' and use your (justified) fear of upsetting DCs to punish you.

Unfortunately, you can't explain this to a 6 year old. I think all you can do is try to be as eagle-eyed as possible and avoid him if you can. This may be a situation where you have to put up with a little to gain a lot. Just be sure that you document anything. If he starts 'popping up' where you/your mum and dc are I would think that may be considered stalking. After all, there is no reason he can't arrange visits and to just show up where you are could be construed by the police/courts as designed more to upset you than to see the DCs.

captain across it certainly feels like that, yes so things settle but it has been nice not having to deal with him in between stupid acts behind my back I still have the fear that the real reason behind the school visit is so that he would be able to remove ds more easily as they know what he looks like which is the main reason I keep updating the head teacher with every incident so they know what is going on. To that end I will speak to her tommorow as I think both me and ds need some reassurance that his dad wont be allowed to remove him as he told my sister he was worried daddy would try to pick him up I really hope he hasn't overheard me at any point I don't think he has.

I tried to explain it to ds by saying that he was allowed to see daddy and that would happen in time but for now i said daddy should tell mummy if he wants to speak you if you are out with granny etc you must not run away from them even if it is daddy shouting. Maybe I shouldn't have said that but I can't think of another way to put it

So ex should have had his meeting by now i've been feeling sick all morning but why? He cant do anything to me and the head teacher has said she would not release ds to him and ds wont even be in the building as away on trip. Will they think I'm crazy if I ask for reassurance that he was not told about sports day? I just don't want poor ds upset anymore when I asked if he was looking forward to the trip he said yes my teacher said daddy wouldn't be there he probably wont have gone himself either so I will be getting 2 people who are against me seeing the head teacher why I am so worried about this?! I do need to inform the school that ds will be seeing a support worker once a week for 16 weeks so I could tell her about that and ask?

I think so long as you inform the school, and it is all for ds benefit, the school should be doing all they can to keep both sides as happy as possible. Ex is entitled to info from the school, and to go to sports day etc, so I'm afraid that is something you are going to have to work with. I doubt very much that the school will listen to any gossip or lies about you that is not in connection with dc. And they should not let ds go home with anyone else but you - can you get a solicitor to write that in a letter to the school?

Ds does seem to have picked up that daddy is not 'allowed' to see him and this could cause him major confusion. Having said that, I don#t know what you should be telling him, to help him. Ex should be helping with this, not confusing him further, poor mite.

Do tell the school that dc will be seeing a support worker - the more people on your side the better.

As of right now, the school has no reason to believe one of you over the other. Neither of you has 'acted up' at the school or done/said anything to make the school think either of you is unfit or a 'problem'. I think you've done a good job of informing the school of your wishes, there really isn't anymore you can do on that front absent a court order. I'd leave well enough alone on that front. I do think you should tell them that dc are seeing a support worker. They may have information to give (or ask) that would benefit DS.

Who is the other person talking to the Head who is 'against you'? Surely the only people entitled to discuss ds are you and his father? If you know of another person trying to obtain information or involve themselves you should tell your solicitor.

Please understand where I'm coming from, but I think at this point you shouldn't be talking to ds about what his father may or may not do. He's too young to be out and about by himself, so there will always be a trusted adult with him to handle any situation that may arise. He's really too young to understand the subtleties involving custody. It's important that he knows that his father loves him. I understand your fears of his taking ds, but I don't think you have fears that ds will actually be physically harmed by his father, do you? If so, you need to talk to your solicitor. If not, you don't want to be accused of interfering with this right to see his child by influencing that child against him.

Captain is right. For good or ill, he is going to be a part of your life for the rest of your life because he is the father of your children. I remember going to dinner with my BFF to celebrate her divorce. We had champagne (of course) & were feeling rather 'giddy' when I raised a toast to her getting him out of her life. She looked at me soberly and said "He will be a part of my life until the day one of us dies, because of we have a child". Part of your new life will have to be adjusting to the fact that he will always be on the periphery, not really in YOUR life, but in your children's lives. But you will adjust, and it will be easier once all the legalities of custody are out of the way and a routine is established.

My, I've been wordy!