I've left please hold my hand

[notmakingsense]

Hi I have previously posted about my well I guess now my ex partner. This is my previous thread www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/2062136-need-advice-long

So last night we wound up having another argument and it all came out so now ive left with no legal advice though hopefully I wont need it. Im feeling incredibly guilty as he was so shocked and its the 1st time ive seen any emotion other than anger he said he would seek help about his anger issues and stop shouting so much but I just cant stay.

I hope he does get help and work through whatever is causing it but I still think separating is for best as it was/is badly affecting eldest dc and I have completely switched off from him to cope with to the point where I just dont care about him but I feel so bad that he is hurting and im so confused is feeling like that normal? A part of me keeps saying what of your wrong and the things he says about my contributing to his anger by being soft with dc and neurotic with money are right. Im changing everyones life. I was so sure before it actually happened now im having moments of doubt

Yay for sand! Little pails and shovels, sun cream and ice cream! Have a wonderful time!

I don't know if it's done there, but here it isn't unusual to have clauses in child custody papers about not saying certain things. It's usually more for name calling and bad mouthing. But it could also be for him not saying things to ds like 'Mummy left Daddy' or 'Mummy doesn't like Daddy anymore' or 'Mummy won't let Daddy see you'. May be something to think about if you are worried about that type of thing. I still think it's par for the course that he screams about taking the children then can't be bothered to have them even for an afternoon [sceptical].

Ha! Can't even get my emojis right! it should be!

across not heard of that I did ask my solicitor what to do when ex has access if dc are coming back upset and/or disclose inappropriate things being said or if ex plays mind games with them he said that only thing I could do would be to stop access and let ex take me to court as in that case it is not in dc best interests and courts take a very dim view of such behaviour but then chances are I wouldn't be able to prove it as he was and is very good at twisting things around so that your not sure if you are wrong or if you have behaved badly

Must be a US thing then. BFF had a clause in her divorce because her ex was telling their son horrible things about her and also calling her vile names in his hearing. If she hadn't had the clause, she wouldn't have been able to deny access unless she took him back to court.

But he lost interest in the child about 6 months after their divorce (he was about 4 then) and only made sporadic appearances after that, although he had threatened her that he was going to get full custody when they split (sound familiar?). Once he even called me to 'come get the kid' because his mates were there and he wanted to go out drinking. It was 'his weekend' and BFF had gone out of town so he couldn't call her. Needless to say I went and picked him up.

across you friends poor little dc thats horrible! Is it terrible that it wouldn't bother me if ex lost interest? Not nice for dc but I think with my families support they would/could be happy

No, I don't think it's terrible. BFF admits it was much more peaceful when her ex left the scene. It was hard on her ds for awhile, but he adjusted & there were wonderful men in his life (grandfather, uncles, my DH) to help with the 'guy things'. I won't say it didn't have an effect on him or that she didn't have her bad times with him as a teen, but he's grown into a nice young man. And it's (unfortunately) much more common these days that there is an absent father so I think the children don't feel so different or 'left out'.

across I'm glad it turned out well for your friends son. I don't think he will disappear though even if he becomes disinterested his mum sisters and aunts will push him to keep access up I used to get on ok with his family but his mum is very like him! She proudly told me how when ex was 2 she put him outside her door for being naughty I mean at 2 years old!! If she isn't the 1st to know about things she spits the dummy my dd 1st birthday we had to postpone her party due to illness as I hadn't txt her 1st with the new date she said she had friends coming but would try to pop down for an hour but didn't bother! Having a drink apparently could not wait an extra hour while im on a rant she also when ds was about 3-3.5 and in her care sent him to a party after being burned by straighteners left lying around by ex sister and had to be called by the party host to tell her he ought to be taken to a&e I mean burned by something hotter than boiling water wtaf and then did take him to a&e I didn't find out till I got home from work I wasn't even called!!! Im feeling a bit about them all now. I didn't kick up a stink about the burn as I knew that ex would then fall out with me I let poor ds down on that front I fear.

I think you may find as time goes on that things you did or accepted to 'keep the peace' in your marriage may pop into your head along with 'why on earth did I do /accept that?'. You can't beat yourself over it. What's important is where you are NOW and where you go from here. You have learnt from your past, that's all that matters.

As far as MiL, I've found that there are just things that an older generation did (or didn't) that a younger generation would or wouldn't. It was the same with me and my mum's generation. I'm not saying what MiL did was right, but now that I'm beginning to see my friends' kids have children I'm even seeing things that I would have (or not) done that they would probably think is not 'proper parenting'. And a few 'spats' between friends and their children over things that we think are no biggie but the children just have a cow over. Of course I don't know how bad the burn was but I can see where my mum would have put some cool water on a burn & then some salve & a bandaid, I would have called the Dr and followed instructions, and parents now would have gone straight to A&E.

Just remember that now MiL and SiL can see the children when it's convenient for you and you can decide what to share and when. But also remember that they do love the children and the children love them. So many relatives get cut out of children's lives by custodial parents but unless they are a danger to the children that's a real shame for everyone. You can't have too many loving grandparents and aunts/uncles.

across it was a bad one required 2 months of healing with silver cream and various bandages poor ds must have been in agony at the party.

So its been like 3 weeks since ex solicitor would have received my letter offering contact etc and ive not heard anything as yet nothing about contact no maintenance and no current address. Now this is likely just my fear of ex/lack of confidence but it makes me think that he is planning something, like I dunno waiting till he can get legal aid to take me to court or I dunno something underhand. I find myself feeling sad sometimes if something makes me think of happier times when he was nice/good to me sigh someone shake me please!!

I don't think there is legal aid for family matters now unless you can prove domestic violence. In all likelihood he will have to fund a court case himself the costs of which begin with the court fee which I think is around 300 in addition to solicitor's costs.

I also cannot see how he can be taking you to court - the court expects mediation to take place now before a court date is set as they prefer matters to be dealt with by consent.

Why on earth would he be taking you to court with no grounds anyway because you have done the right thing (from the court's perspective) and offered contact. He has not responded. You have done nothing wrong and I cannot see how you can be taken to court for offering contact!

Oh Goodness, that was bad! I'm glad he healed ok.

Consider yourself shaken & a finger wagged at you for good measure . Stop worrying, love! I'm assuming you contacted ex-solictor, but just in case you haven't, it may be a good idea to do so. If they are an ex-sol, contacting you may be low on their list or they may just have drop filed any response. Otherwise, you needn't worry. You have done nothing wrong & everything right. I think he's just too lazy & too much of a coward to face you and/or to take responsibility for caring the DCs during access. Remember, you said yourself that he was never a 'hands on' father, so why would he want to be one now? Plus, he knows that asking for access means being asked about paying maintenance! Think about it, his DM & DS have surely been on him to see the DCs, I know I would be if it were my DGCs/DNs. And yet he hasn't contacted you. I really don't think there's anything nefarious going on, he just can't be bothered.

And it's normal to feel sad about 'days gone by'. You loved him and probably had some lovely times. Just don't let the sadness overwhelm you or forget the bottom line truth about the relationship. Remember that before you left, he didn't do a thing to try to make your life together any better. He didn't offer to change, help out more, nor even say 'sorry I couldn't do better'. And remember that you are happier and more peaceful now.

Thanks across I'm trying but the silence is deafining if that makes sense? My solicitor sent the response to his solicitor over 3 weeks ago maybe I will hear this week who knows it just seems a long time to have heard nothing at all or maybe its not?

Maybe it's his solicitor being a slowpoke then. If he's been told not to do anything without their advice (& I think most say that) then he may just be waiting to hear from them. Or perhaps there is a response waiting to be typed and mailed.

I know what you mean, there is nothing worse than waiting, especially when you're a worrier!

Exactly across my mind only makes me think the worst possible but then ex would probably like it that it causes that I really don't know what sort of lines he is feeding his family I dread to think actually no doubt im the bad 1 stopping him from seeing them. I wont lie ik dreading when access does start but I wouldn't deny my dc the chance of a relationship with their dad.

Well have now got reply from ex solicitor, with 3 weeks worth of his days off however it starts from 29th june considering I only got it yesterday that's weird! He is looking for access for the entire weekend this weekend which I am going to say no to as he is supposed to give me 2 weeks notice and I dont think that an entire weekend after over 2 months absence is the right thing at all. So im thinking I will offer that on his days off the following week he can collect them in the morning and return them by evening to build up contact does this seem reasonable? His response makes no mention of building contact up

Also someone shake me I feel so sad about them going with him at all. Im convinced he will fill their heads with rubbish as are my parents

Well, I think the response was probably sitting on desks for awhile before it got mailed.

I do think it's a bit much, too, right off the bat. Much easier on DCs for them to return home in the evening the first few times. Then later on find a way to ask DS if he would like to stay overnight. And I think that question should come from you. There would be too much emotional tug on him if it came from his father. Even as young as he is, I think he might feel torn. If the question comes from you, he won't worry that he is 'hurting' you. IIRC DD is only 1. Is he proposing to take her overnight, too? Is he used to/capable of dealing with feeding a 1 year old, nappies, bottles, sleep disturbances, etc?

It's only natural that you don't want to let them go. They've been your reason for living during these last few months. But as long as he acts like a responsible parent, it is to their benefit to have a relationship with him. As far as him dripping 'poison' you will have to wait and see. DD is too young to understand and DS is of an age where he won't be able to hide things from you. At the first instance, you stop contact and get in touch with your solicitor.

across ive proposed that he have them 10am-6pm on his days off for the 1st 6 weeks to allow the dc to get used to going off alone with him (or more likely him and his mum/sister/aunt) and to build trust mostly for ds but for me as well I still have thoughts of him refusing to return them

Will he cope with 1 year old dd I have no idea he used to have her on a sunday while I worked but I would come in to her with no clothes on her bottom half and id say 80% of the time requiring a nappy change and apparently "only just up from a nap" so needing fed or had been fed late at lunchtime I highly suspect though that his mother, sister, and aunts will be helping with looking after the dc as well as drop off and pick ups tbh. Im am dreading the handovers as well my solicitor has pointed out that he will need to have car seats and a buggy for ellie which will likely go down like a lead balloon he probably expected me to faff about transferring them to his car the last time he had them (the 1st week we seperated) the buggy came back with the cup holder knocked off luckily enough it was easy to fix but he does not take care with things and it may be selfish but I don't want the things for dc ruined by him.

How much my life has changed in the last few months still makes me feel sad at times and a little scared for the future but I try to block this out and just get through each day. Please tell me I will get used to the dc going away as that part breaks me the most

I think you're being reasonable. And I agree that he needs his own 'stuff' for the DCs. Can you request that his DM/DSis do pick up since I know you really don't want to see him. Your parents could be there to receive them back. You will need to eventually build yourself up to it, but no reason not to make it easy at first.

Is your sol putting something in his letters about his guaranteeing return? I don't know if it would be legally binding absent a court order, but you may want to discuss this with your sol. It may make you feel better if you knew you'd be able to demand their return. I really don't think you'll have a problem with it, though, honestly I don't.

I think it's a good thing that he'll have someone there since he gets 'shouty'. It will be less stressful for you, I would think, knowing they are well taken care of.

Yes, you will get used to it, I promise. My cousin at first used to mope around her house at a loss, like a dog who's master has died. She cried and said she felt just 'paralyzed' without her DCs there. But after a bit she started to realize that the time they spent with their father was time she had for herself. She started to do things that were hard to do with them there, cleaning closets or mopping the floor. Then she started doing 'fun' things, movies, a good 'chocolate & magazine' night. Eventually she started looking forward to those weekends and started dating and having 'girl's nights'. It just took time. You'll get there, you WILL.

across I hope I get there all I seem to have is set backs, out of kindess or stupidity I left his mother on my fb so she could see how dc were doing etc wish I hadnt she has shared the twats post which reads "at times you think you should give up but if its worth fighting for keep fighting for whats right" with a pic of my dc and she says so proud of my son keep fighting. A few comments of support as well. I know I shouldn't let him get to me but I actually feel very angry and have cried about it I think that its because it feels like what he done to me and ds doesn't matter and people are thinking he is some hard done to guy who is a good father which he is not help how do I deal with this?

Just quietly unfriend her. You don't need that crap. "What the eye don't see, the heart don't grieve for". But remember the one who complains the loudest usually does the least work. He can trumpet his daddy bear crap all he wants it's all sound and fury, signifying nothing. If he intended an ugly fight you'd know by now. The letter from his sol would have been for full custody not what appears to be basically acquiescing to what you proposed. He's not really fighting for shite, is he?

Take a deep breath, relax. You will be fine.

Thanks across im very worried now more so than I was as its now popped into my head that he will refuse to return the dc if he gets them this friday as we are due to go on Holiday the monday and I Wouldn't be able to go through courts till the monday at the very earliest if not later in the week f**k I hate this why Couldn't he just be an adult accept he has done wrong and be fair.

I don't think he'll do that. I really don't. If he were that interested he would have done it already. Especially since he has a solicitor, who you know is telling him to toe the line. He will have been told to be cooperative or it will look bad to the court. Take a deep breath. It will be alright.

across I think he was shell shoked the one and only time since the separation he had them and hasn't had the opportunity to do it since so it still worries me like the reason he is being cooperative is just to have them under his care so he can then refuse to bring them back. If I asked the police to do a welfare check in this situation and would they ask ds if he wanted to come home? I think he would say he wanted home.

if the response takes as long as the last one did then we may well be away on holiday before it comes through.

I'm in the US so I don't want to guess what UK law may be as I may well give you an incorrect answer. Best thing to do is ring the police and talk to them. I'm sure they'd be able to answer your question. Ask them if, absent a court order, a signed statement promising to return them would hold any weight with them as far as making him bring them back. If it will, then to ease your mind, ask him to sign a simple statement promising to return them at XXX time on XXX date. If he's not willing to sign such a simple statement, then (if legal) do not send the children with him.

Also, review the letters from him/his solicitor. See if there is any language that states or strongly implies that he has agreed to return the children.

Again, legally I just don't know. Any definitive answer I give would be based on US law. Your best best is talk to your sol or the police. If there is time, maybe your sol can draw up a letter for him to sign.

Do you have any idea when all this will be formalized? I think you'll feel so much better when you have a court order that specifies everything in black and white. From the threads I've read it seems so much more time consuming in the UK, attorney letters, then mediation, then filing papers, then court. Here, you file papers, go to court, a judge does a temporary order if you can't agree and BOOM you have temporary visitation orders. Then you hash it out as far as permanent orders.

across ive no idea at the moment its not going to court but is communicated through solicitors. In an earlier response it said he would seek access on his days off collecting the children after work on the day before and returning them at 7pm the following day but your right id rather have some sort of binding signed agreement that will be acted apon. I will definitely ask my solicitor if this is possible thanks.

Dont suppose there are any solicitors about on here that would know? Xx