I've left please hold my hand

[notmakingsense]

Hi I have previously posted about my well I guess now my ex partner. This is my previous thread www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/2062136-need-advice-long

So last night we wound up having another argument and it all came out so now ive left with no legal advice though hopefully I wont need it. Im feeling incredibly guilty as he was so shocked and its the 1st time ive seen any emotion other than anger he said he would seek help about his anger issues and stop shouting so much but I just cant stay.

I hope he does get help and work through whatever is causing it but I still think separating is for best as it was/is badly affecting eldest dc and I have completely switched off from him to cope with to the point where I just dont care about him but I feel so bad that he is hurting and im so confused is feeling like that normal? A part of me keeps saying what of your wrong and the things he says about my contributing to his anger by being soft with dc and neurotic with money are right. Im changing everyones life. I was so sure before it actually happened now im having moments of doubt

I have said to ds that he will see his dad and that its a good thing its just taking some time to arrange it all and dad will have to let mum know when he is coming. I don't think he is at risk of physical harm but I do think he would do his best to ensure I never saw ds again though that isn't possible he would most definitely try then poor ds would end up either a nerves wreck or a bully as well ds had asked why granny was upset after Sunday's incident and the only way I could think to explain it without bad mouthing ex was to say he should have told mummy he wanted to see you. Im lost in reality I have no idea what to tell him i definitely dont want to make it worse for ds though he hadn't wanted left alone with ex even before I left so not sure if its what I said or just an extension of the fear from before? I wish there was some sort of manual to tell me what to do??

A manual would be nice and I'll bet if all MNers got together we could write one hell of a best-seller. If we didn't kill each other first! LOL

I know you said that XP was 'shouty' and I'm sure that's why DS has, in the past, not wanted to be alone with him. But I think right now DS probably doesn't really think about that, just that he hasn't seen his dad in a long time. And that Granny & Dad got upset with each other when he did see his dad the other day. You handled it as best you knew how at the time. Every situation will be new for a while and it's natural that you may flounder a bit, not knowing exactly what to say.

But I think with ds, because of his age, the best policy may be an adapted 'don't ask, don't tell'. If he doesn't directly ask, don't tell him anything unless you have to. Of course if he asks you'll have to decide whether it's in his best interests to answer in terms that a 6 yr old understands or to try to 'deflect' the question. You know, as much as I hated as a child to hear "I'll explain when you're older, dear" I truly understand now why I that was the answer I was given to some questions. There just are some things a child doesn't need to know/worry about. Problem is, in today's world it seems that that is no longer a reasonable answer.

across you may be right he doesn't ask much to be fair but would not get away with tell you when your older I'd just get by why and the same question over and over bless him,

He had a good day today so that's something I'm glad of. Me however how do I control my worry? Dd is at stage where she has taken some steps but falls a lot so has a few bruises I'm worried that when ex does see DC I will be accused of being negligent or worse I do watch her but cannot get to her quickly enough one minute she is crawling or playing with a toy the next up and off then falls or bumps into things.

I'm pretty sure that an expert could tell the difference between a 'routine' fall-and-bump on a toddler and an injury that is caused by abuse. And I think most people realize that toddlers are prone to the odd bruise or bump as they learn to get about and don't automatically think 'neglect'. I remember being absolutely terrified when ds1 was 3 and ended up with a black eye after he tripped and stumbled into a chair. I just knew social services were going to come knocking!

I would expect that 'he' may try to 'fuss' at you just to make you feel bad but I doubt if he'd bother to try and take it further.

As far as controlling the worry, it's just try and try again. You have to keep reminding yourself that worrying never solved or prevented anything and it expends energy that you could use for better things, like enjoying a beautiful sunset, a walk with the DCs, even just a fun TV show or a delicious piece of cake. Next time, try to ask yourself 'What am I accomplishing with this? Is my worrying going to stop something from happening or change anything? Is there anything I can do about what I'm worrying about?' If the answer is no (and it will be) then you just have to force yourself to redirect your thoughts. Not easy, I know!

Thanks across I'm trying to control the worry but it consumes me at times its worse when I have to go to work as I worry about him taking the dc this hasn't happened so far so I'm not sure why it worries me so much.

Ok admission time I find myself feeling sad about how things have turned out and typically I'm remembering the good times when he was the person I fell for

It's just the death of the dream that is making you sad. We all set out on a life path and we think we know where it's going. It's a 'happy path' or we wouldn't have chosen it. Then, all of a sudden, we realize that the path isn't that happy any more and we have to choose another one, one that isn't what we thought we'd be on. And for a while, we can still see that other path, 'over there somewhere', that we still wish we were on. But eventually, our new path turns out to be a happy path, too. Just give it time. I think once all the legalities are out of the way about visitation, etc, you'll be happier.

I really don't think he'll take the DCs. He really hasn't shown all that much interest in them so far, right? So why would he want to commit himself to 24/7 caring for them, finding childcare, transporting here and there, not to mention the level of care needed for a 1 year old; nappies, bottles, etc. No, I think he'll bully and blather to try and scare you, but that's it. Again, as time goes on and nothing happens, you begin to relax.

Thanks across your right I just wish it wasn't like this I don't want all the game playing that seems to be going on to what end I don't know.

Ds said last night how long are we staying at gps and I explained that we wouldn't be returning to previous home he then went on to say wont the house miss us so I asked if he was happy here and was he happy there. The reply broke me a little he said that he is happy where he is and that he was sad alot before we left I asked why he said because daddy shouted alot and said he couldn't kiss/hug me (ds that is) so I asked when did daddy say that apparently it had been while I was gym and he had bumped his head so daddy shouted sent him to his room and said he wasnt to kiss or hug me. My poor poor boy. I reassured him that he could as much as he wanted. He also said that he had been told he would stay with daddy and not see mummy then said that he couldn't remember who said it or if it had been said at all apart from reassurance im at a loss as how to help him??

Poor little love. Bless him.
All you can do is reassure him and be there, as you are always.
Lots of hugs and kisses.
So glad he is happier where he is now. That must be reassuring for you.
Keep going. Still cheering you on over here.

Remember that children can infer or 'misremember' things at that age. If he was crying for you (as they do at times) it is likely that XP shouted at him, you've said he has form for that. It may be that when ds bumped his head what was said was that he couldn't hug/kiss you because you weren't there (you were at the gym) but all he 'remembers' is being told he couldn't hug/kiss you. Just as he isn't sure he was actually told he would be living with XP.

All you can do is reassure him that you love him. IIRC, aren't you getting assistance for him through school? If not, you may want to speak to either his paediatrician or teacher. It may be that they have someone experienced that you can talk to to help you guide him through this. These are emotions that a child really doesn't have the ability to 'reason' about. And as adults it's hard for us to know how to speak to their level.

Thanks hellsbells

across I hope he is mis-remembering though ex used to tease him if he ddd hug/kiss me in front of him calling him a sook but I used to openly tell ds that he was just jealous. I have a support worker for him through womens aid so hopefully that will help him as he is still lashing out alot physically and verbally but turns back jnto my little sweetheart when we are alone. I find myself hoping im doing/saying the right things and asking the right questions too

You're doing the best you know how. Are you speaking to the support worker? I'm sure they can help give you the tools you need to help ds adjust. I'm sure his acting out is just because he's too young to verbalize his feelings. After all, how many times have we just wanted to throw something, and we're adults!!

across I know its just a reaction and if I'm honest his behaviour reminds me of ex sometimes and that upsets me and I withdraw as that was/is my defence mechanism. Then I feel like a rubbish mum as I'm not sure what the right thing to do is and I need to stop withdrawing and deal with it.

My dm and others have noted that I speak about it all in the 3rd person and or without alot of emotion but its like I can tell people about it but if I let myself feel it then I can barely function. While it shouldn't I feel shaken at the thought of meeting him when out and about and rattled even when its my dps that see him. How do I shake this? I know its silly but im worried that when he does eventually get access that he will try to turn them against me, he is so much better with words than I am and has so many people believe his sob story that I still doubt myslef

If you aren't, I think you should seek out counseling for yourself. You need the right tools to deal with what you are going through. What you are feeling is completely normal, but you do need to be able to move forward and be stronger.

And you aren't a rubbish mum. You're just a struggling one.

across I'm hoping to start a support group with womens aid soon. I guess I'm worried that seeking help with getting my head out of the fear created by ex will be something he can use against me. Say he is the better parent as he doesn't need counselling or help and I'm not fit to be a mum. I love my dc so much I feel sick at the thought of them winding up living with ex because I couldn't sort my own head out

No one will think that way, everyone knows that people struggle to find their new normal. In fact I think it would prove that you are the better parent since you are seeking assistance to help your ds deal with the situation.

I really don't think he would want them with him full time. Too much work.

Agree with Across - people will not judge you for getting help; much better than not accepting a problem! (Like him!) The days of being distrustful of MH issues are hopefully over. Many more people are going to counselling for all sorts of things, and self-improvement is one of these.

Anyway, who cares what he tells people about your affairs? I think you'll find that people instinctively distrust 'charmers' who sell a sob story. Most people are old enough and wise enough to realise there are 2 sides to each story and keep their own counsel. I know i do. I don't think people are that interested anyway.

Re ds - it does look as if ex has got it into his head that displays of affection are not on - if he is lashing out in public, but lovely in private, that would indicate it. Not sure what you can do about it - other than mention it to his support worker. Maybe they can work on it.

And ex will not get custody! Not even 50/50 - he is not interested, is he? Other than as something to hit you with?

Thanks across and captain yes I think its just a way to punish me but he is that twisted he would see it through though I think, and is plausible enough on the surface so Unfortunately on way home from getting dc ice cream ex turned up walking towards us, I stood my ground didn't look at him couldn't avoid the twat so he stopped ds to talk to but he never left my side so he couldn't poison his mind this time. He then walked away the same way he came so my thoughts are that he seen us come out of the ice cream shop and parked then walked up towards us otherwise why walk away the way you came the way the roadworks are in the area now that wouldn't make sense unless the only purpose was to "bump" into us I couldn't even cross the road as its all a big loop you have to walk now I feel a bit shaken up and upset but I can't explain why? I mean he did not speak directly to me and ds never left my side

Thanks across and captain yes I think its just a way to punish me but he is that twisted he would see it through though I think, and is plausible enough on the surface so Unfortunately on way home from getting dc ice cream ex turned up walking towards us, I stood my ground didn't look at him couldn't avoid the twat so he stopped ds to talk to but he never left my side so he couldn't poison his mind this time. He then walked away the same way he came so my thoughts are that he seen us come out of the ice cream shop and parked then walked up towards us otherwise why walk away the way you came the way the roadworks are in the area now that wouldn't make sense unless the only purpose was to "bump" into us I couldn't even cross the road as its all a big loop you have to walk now I feel a bit shaken up and upset but I can't explain why? I mean he did not speak directly to me and ds never left my side

It's going to be inevitable that you will bump into each other if you live in a small town/village. And only natural that he would want to speak to DC when you do. If the situation were reversed, wouldn't you? Even if he did see you from the road and stop, as long as he was not threatening or saying things to upset DS I don't think you should let it upset you. You handled it right, next time it will be easier. Remember, you can't stop him from seeing the DCs (even if it is on the street) and it's in their interest to have a relationship with him, as long as he behaves appropriately.

You handled it beautifully. You didn't make a scene, run away, or drag DS off. You just stood calmly by and let them talk. Perfect. If it happens again, you now know that nothing bad will happen and that you know you can deal with the situation.

As far as him getting the children, there is nothing 'plausible' that you have said or done, nor is seeking counseling to help handle the transition a 'plausible' reason for you do lose custody. NOTHING. He can't build a mountain out of a nonexistent molehill. He can try anything he wants, he can probably drag things out, but the result will be the same. You will retain custody, he will have visitation.

I'll say again, he really doesn't want full custody. Has he even ever threatened this? Don't worry about things that haven't happened.

How is ds after the meeting, sense?

across it is a town but not an overly small one and he comes from a couple of towns away but works in the area. What I meant was he had to double back on himself to meet me today like change the direction he was driving in park and walk up had there been no roadworks then he may have done so and missed us as id have been away quicker. Thanks I didn't know what else to do I still get a rising panic when I see him that has been there since the split its like i'm just waiting for the emotional blackmail it was pretty much all I got before I cut verbal communication with him he has said in arguments that "he would fight me for the dc" and when I said in response the very most he would get would be 50/50 he said well I will get that and I wont have to pay you anything

captain ds is being very shouty and angry again I don't know what to make of it its like I get him calmed a bit then he ex shows up for like 5 mins and back to square 1. Im so so worried about what happens when access is sorted for poor ds will he mess with his head further? Will he or his family try to turn sc against me paranoid or what?!

I think once access is sorted and some sort of routine is established for ds, I think things may actually get better/easier for him. Right now he's sort of 'in limbo' not knowing when/if he'll see his dad and you know that children really do need routine. I do think these 'pop up' meetings on the street aren't the best for him, but you did handle it beautifully (calm, quiet, not making a big deal of it). At this point, I don't know what you can do about it, though, since you really can't control XP. And you don't want ds to 'pick up' on a vibe that you are darting around town from place to place trying to hide from him. You need to be cool and confident when you go to town, not worried that he will jump out at you.

I don't know what his problem is about not arranging contact. It's really stupid, all he'd have to do is call you and ask for an afternoon. I guess he'd rather feel sorry for himself and tell people you're being difficult (which is not true!). Another sign that he means more to himself than his children mean to him!

My love, I'll say it as many times as I need to, he will NOT be able to take your children! You are NOT an unfit mother and you have NOT denied him access, he just never calls to arrange it. And he WILL have to pay maintenance.

I will make one suggestion. You may want to call your solicitor and ask him/her about this continuing no contact by him to see DCs thing. Could he be trying to falsely establish that you 'won't let' him see the DCs? Is it to your benefit to let it continue 'as is' or would it benefit you in the long run (by being seen as not wanting to keep DCs away) to have the sol (or you) send a letter to XP stating that he hasn't seen DCs since 'whatever date' and would he like to arrange an afternoon (or whatever). Just my thoughts and of course take NO action without talking to your sol.

across ds has settled a little bit thankfully. I am currently awaiting a reply from his solicitor re contact and maintenance as over 2 weeks ago a letter was sent to his solicitor offering 2 overnights a week but stating in ds case that this may have to be worked up to and requesting arrears of maintenance to be paid and supplying him with paperwork for child maintenance options but so far ive not heard anything and the thing is me and dc have now arranged to visit a relative who stays in a tourist area for 3 days next week which is no doubt when he will respond/want access though id be very reluctant to change the plans as ds and me would be disappointed

Should I be chasing him re access? He has my email address could txt and my solicitor is open mon-fri 9-5 so like 3 ways he could have requested access but so far hasn't?

I didn't realize that there had never been a response from his solicitor. No, you've made the offer, now it's up to him. Either he has a very busy solicitor or he just would rather be 'woe is me'. I will say it's odd that when he saw you the other day on the street that he didn't try to arrange contact, but maybe his sol has advised him to let him/her handle everything.

I wouldn't change plans. You and DCs need a break. It's only 3 days and there are plenty of other days for him to choose.

I hope where you are going is lovely. I'm picturing DCs either playing in the sand or romping in the woods. I have so many wonderful memories of holiday times when mine were little. Now mine are grown and what I wouldn't give for just one day with them as little children!

across yes the last letter said 2 overnights but built up to and asked for his schedule 2 weeks in advance as his days off change every week or at least they did. Ive no idea why no reply yet but I did say in beginning id rather any communication was written rather than verbal as felt like I was overreacting or an idiot when he spoke to me I just don’t want dc suffering but I at the moment im not sure whether they would suffer more through lack of contact with ex or due to it. Thats not my choice to make thats why I offered the 2 overnights
On a brighter note sand it is