I've left please hold my hand

[notmakingsense]

Hi I have previously posted about my well I guess now my ex partner. This is my previous thread www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/2062136-need-advice-long

So last night we wound up having another argument and it all came out so now ive left with no legal advice though hopefully I wont need it. Im feeling incredibly guilty as he was so shocked and its the 1st time ive seen any emotion other than anger he said he would seek help about his anger issues and stop shouting so much but I just cant stay.

I hope he does get help and work through whatever is causing it but I still think separating is for best as it was/is badly affecting eldest dc and I have completely switched off from him to cope with to the point where I just dont care about him but I feel so bad that he is hurting and im so confused is feeling like that normal? A part of me keeps saying what of your wrong and the things he says about my contributing to his anger by being soft with dc and neurotic with money are right. Im changing everyones life. I was so sure before it actually happened now im having moments of doubt

Yes, you absolutely need to find out if an agreement worked out between you and XP is binding and enforceable as far as returning DCs & especially whether the police would be able to intervene based on it. Also, whether letters back & forth mean anything (probably not) or whether a signed contract between the two of you would suffice or if you'll need to seek a court order.

I think MN has a legal forum. You may want to pose your question there. But a call to your solicitor first thing tomorrow would be the best because they know the ins n outs of your particular situation.

Again, I DO NOT think you will have a problem with XP, but I know you will feel much better having no unanswered questions and an enforceable document.

Thanks across I have womens aid today for both ds and myself so will call them after that but may txt my friend who works for him as she may actually know if this is possible or be able to ask him. I think there is still time of there is as we wait for his solicitor to consult with him them write to mine so even if next letter is he accepting built up contact maybe we could include an agreement to be signed that says for 1st weeks dc will always be returned by 6pm on the same day and after that will always be returned by 7pm the following day. I have been told that if he in anyway implies that he intends to keep them or take them away then I can refuse access and say supervised contact only on those grounds.

its so hard my dad has said and im with him that in all likelihood the 1st time he has them they will make it a huge deal which will be overwhelming for poor ds and will id think give him his birthday gifts from almost 2 months ago and say mummy wouldn't let us see you/we weren't invited so couldn't give you them before

Sounds like a good plan.

There really isn't much you can do about what he says. At 6 DS isn't up to the intricacies of adult relations. All you can do is keep telling him that you love him. As far as the bday gifts, you can always say in front of him at send off 'DS is excited to get his gifts from you' or something like that with a big smile. Remember that estranged parents say much worse things & children survive it. BFF's ex actually taught their then 3 yr old to say 'Mummy is a c*'. And here, that is the most vile thing you can say to a woman.

It will be ok.

Thanks across had an unusually speedy response from ex solicitor after mine had to again say they were ignoring the difficulties between him and ds to which the reply again failed to acknowledge it but agreed to days only but for 4 weeks I had said at least 6 so another letter will go off today saying that and saying that contact will not go ahead this week. I do feel a little bad about changing that but as minus a court order I would have no guarantee of the children being returned and the police may or may not intervene then for my own sanity I do not want access to begin this week as it is a holiday and both solicitors and courts would not re open for 4 days in which time poor ds would be distraught dd im sure would miss me and obviously it would mean no holiday for us (we are due to go away monday but not abroad)

He also has asked for the car seats of "his sister" that I have well ds is a blue booster thing that needs replacing so he is welcome to it the other was dd 1st birthday gift from her so in essence they want her gift back to use im fairly pissed off about that but have ordered a lovely girly one for her to have in my car. This is the man who has gone out got a new car, spent £££ on eating out and has paid no maintenance but wants his sisters birthday gifts for dd rather than buying his own im so sick of childish antics. However my parents want to return both seats to him while he is at work let them see what kind of man he really is im not sure it would work but I would rather he had them so when access does begin there is no faffing around and no opportunity fir him to make me feel intimidated or small

Well, that's a fine 'how d'ye do', asking for gifts back! Of course, he must have seats for them, so I guess I'd probably give them back too. He's so immature he'd probably not buy them seats 'just to show you'.

I think they don't want to address anything regarding his difficulties with DS as that may be something you could use later against him. And I agree that you all need your holiday & nothing should jeopardize that. This has been rough on DS and he needs to get away (as do you).

Thanks across I took myself and dc out for the day yesterday so we were not around if he showed up as my solicitor had written another letter informing him that I had concerns about his approach to contact as it is never acknowledged in any responses that there are difficulties between him and ds and that he has unilaterally decided that day contact would be 4 weeks rather than the initial 6 weeks I had said asked or a response and said as a result contact would not go ahead. Im terrified of what will happen now though

The best of it is after stating through solicitors to an address request that I knew he was staying with his mother I now have screenshots to prove he is moving into a flat share! He really does think he can do no wrong is a great dad and its all about him!

Well, hopefully now you're getting packed and ready for your holiday. It will be so wonderful to get out and get away from the day to day things. Try to 'let it go' for the next little while and just relax and enjoy your little darlings with their sand pails & shovels.

When you get back will be enough time to pick up your worries. But when you do, try to look back and see that all the things you have worried about haven't actually happened. Then square your shoulders and look the future right in the face, without fear.

across all packed yes I have said that unless it will mean he gets more contact than I have offered or a hearing or something would go ahead without me I dont want to know what the reply to latest letter asking him to address the problematic (ha emotionally abusive more like) relationship with ds before contact takes place and reiterates it will not be overnight for at least 6 weeks at which point I am willing to

Hopefully I will manage to forget all about it for the next week but why do I still have pangs of sadness albiet in amongst rage at the unfairness of how he is playing victim and being believed? I wonder if I will ever be able to let a man (relations excluded) in to life again obviously its way too soon and I dont want anything like that ever for quite some time but it crosses my mind when I see happy couples and families in fact I doubt anyone would want me anyway. I guess I just want to be happy.

Willing to reassess

And you will be happy again, when everything gets settled and you have your new routine. And it's perfectly natural to have pangs of sadness. You've lost what you thought was to be your future. You've been disappointed in the person you were supposed to be able to be most trusting in. And right now your life is topsy-turvy. BUT in time you will find your routine, you will plan a new future, and you WILL be able to trust again. Then you will be happy again. And love WILL find you in time, when you (& the children) are really ready for it.

Thanks across it just doesn't feel like it just now had a lovely holiday with the dc but got back to a cheeky letter from his solicitor saying how "concerned" he is to learn about ds having a support worker! He has not asked about the dc welfare in a long long time so why would he?! It says that unless contact takes place immediately he will be raising a court action I basically just feel he is still managing to bully me and trying to frighten me. In essence I think they are trying to imply im a liar and that he doesn't need a support worker but his mood swings and behaviour before I left concerned me so I believe it is the right thing? Im really doubting myself as im not sure I will be believed Ir takes me back again to the doubting myself stage is this my fault? Am I overreacting?

Well, he should be 'concerned'. DS is having a rough time and needs the extra support. XP can think what he likes. DS wouldn't be having a support worker if they didn't think it necessary, now would he? You have documentation of his behaviour if need be.

As far as court action, that may not be a bad thing. There is something to say about having things formalized and enforceable. That way you won't have to worry about him dropping by unannounced or keeping the children. Visits & overnights will be all spelled out. You won't have to worry about him returning the children because there will be a court order to show the police if he tries it. Think about it for a bit. So much of your anxiety is not knowing which way to jump because you don't know what he will do next. With a court order, the 'not knowing' is removed. I think you should talk to your solicitor about the pros and cons. And remember, along with access, maintenance will be part of the court order.

I don't think you're overreacting. I think you have been living in limbo. Talk to your parents about the court order, too. They are there day to day and know him and you. And they would be more familiar with the UK system than I am. Here it's pretty cut and dried. Visitation means XP sees the children on X and Y, holidays are X and Y and XP pays so much in support. No ifs ands or buts.

Thanks across in theory that's how it works here though they prefer it to be sorted between the parents if possible, ive never denied access just asking that issues are addressed so that ds doesn't end up more messed up is that so much to ask?

Im scared because ex is good at twisting things and that he will do that in court to make me look like a bad mother or neurotic. The letter says who involved them as if it was the wrong thing to do and now im questioning myself but surely they wouldn't have seen him if it wasnt needed? Despite me asking them?

He can try as much as he wants, but you've done absolutely nothing that indicates you are a bad mother. Your children are well fed, dressed, and cared for. You are informed and interested in DS's schooling. You give them cuddles, love and songs & stories. You have contacted the proper people to help you deal with DS's behaviour. If those authorities hadn't felt there was the need, they wouldn't have offered services for DS.

Remember that judges are not easily fooled. You'll have good representation to present your side of the story & documentation to back it up. And I presume that Ex's solicitor will not condone perjury from his client so I'm sure he won't be encouraging him to lie.

Was the letter from his sol? They may have just been asking for general purposes so that they have the whole picture. If the letter was directly from Ex, I'd just ignore the question. If he'd been more involved, he'd already know the answer!

across it was from his solicitor from his, even mine said he doubted himself for a minute thinking hang on is this really the response to the last letter I sent! So another has gone to his solicitor stating once again that there are issues between him and ds that have to be treated delicately and at his pace in his interest. It gives a specific example of ex behaviour I had given when poor ds told him that him shouting all the time was making him sad and I quote the response a 5 year old got "if you didnt do stupid things I would not need to shout at you" and tells him he is the adult in the relationship and whether or not he believes he is at fault he should be working to fix it which is my point exactly! I just know though that the response will be to take me to court

What a prick to say such a thing to a 5 year old!

Seriously, though, other than the expense, what would be so bad about going to court and getting everything formalized? In a way you have nothing to lose and everything to gain. No more worries about him taking the DCs & keeping them, days and methods of contact all spelled out so he can't play games with you about when he 'wants' to see the DCs. I think you'd end up worrying far less than you do now.

across you are right and I think it may well end in court as I just cannot see him baking down and admitting he cannot have access the way he would like it and has to believe and be led by ds and what I observe in ds behavior the decision is his to make now I either have in black and white that he will treat contact delicately and at a speed that suits ds or he raises a court action in which case he must pay to raise it, my solicitor will defend any action and block legal aid by showing that contact has in fact been offered and my solicitor will just be repeating what we have said all along. He paid maintenance for the 1st time ever last week but only for 4 weeks worth so looks like the 3 months since we separated he doesn't intend to pay anything towards despite saying he would through his solicitor what did I ever see in this knob!!

What you saw in him then is NOT who he is now.

I think court would be a good idea. If nothing else you would be able to get an order for maintenance to be paid regularly.

across it looks very much like its going to end up in court I just hope that it wouldn't mean poor ds being dragged through lots of assessments etc he is already going through enough and the stupid bit is I have said from the start that he can see the dc I only need to know he would not continue to roar at ds when he is clumsy/loud/a bit naughty surely any decent parent wouls be happy to say that.

across it looks very much like its going to end up in court I just hope that it wouldn't mean poor ds being dragged through lots of assessments etc he is already going through enough and the stupid bit is I have said from the start that he can see the dc I only need to know he would not continue to roar at ds when he is clumsy/loud/a bit naughty surely any decent parent wouls be happy to say that.

If it does, just trust your solicitor to advise you. You have documentation re DS so I doubt they'll want to put him through anything more. Judges, above all, have the interests of the children in mind when they hear these cases.

BTW, I'll be on holiday for the next 10 days but will check back when I return. Until then, be strong and remember that things will be OK in the end. You just have to get through all the formalities first. And you will come out stronger.

across thank you I sure hope it all goes ok and as ive not heard anything can only assume he has decided to go to court. Hope you have a great holiday thanks for the continued support.

Holiday was wonderful. BFF, her daughter, and I spent 6 wonderful days at Disneyland. Came home with a summer cold though. That part isn't fun.

Hope all is going well for you.

across that sounds like a great holiday! I went to Disneyland when I was about 11 and would love to take the dc but think it may be some time before I could afford it hope ur cold clears quickly.

well a turn up for the books I got an email to try and sort things between us apparently though im still on alert if im honest as he had called my support worker at womens aid asking for information about ds but was told no half an hour later I got the email so 1st contact is set up for this friday (after numerous emails to get confirmation that access would be with kid gloves ds support and access not to talked about with ds and eventually his new adress) I asked him for future dates where he asked for 2 saturdays in a row he knows this is the only non school day I have with ds as I work a sunday so have said that I am prepared to compromise and will agree to 1 in every 3 saturdays while offering sundays to him. I have already switched hours about at work to do whats best for dc he should I think do the same? My friend who works for my solicitor said my proposal was fair so shall see what sort of reply I get anyway. Wish me luck

I think you're being very good about things. I agree that he does not need to discuss the parenting-issues with DS. That would be inappropriate in any circumstance!

I think it's reasonable that if you work Sundays (assuming he doesn't) that that should be his access day. Saves childcare costs, if nothing else. But you've offered a good compromise. If he's really interested in access, he'll work things out for himself as far as work scheduling goes.

Disneyland is really magical, isn't it? I've been visiting since I was a child (grew up nearby, but no longer a 'local') and try to get there now whenever I can. Even with an Annual Pass it's still expensive; hotel, fuel, food, etc.