Perfect Man with past?

[Hairytoekerr01]

Greetings,

Long time lurker and first time poster here, but I really don't know where else to turn to advice.

I live in a cosy wee flat with only DD and myself and am quite happy.

About 6 months ago a new man joined the small company where I worked and he seemed so different to the other "football, beer and horses" type blokes who work there and we immediately hit it off.

We began to grow closer although it concerned me that it seemed that he was pushing me away and didn't like to talk about his past.

Last week he took me out and said that he had real feelings for me but thought I should know the truth so I could decide if I wanted to go any further or not.

He told me 3 years ago he was working in a european country (I don't want to say which one for reasons I'll explain later) and was attacked in a bar after accidentally picking up the wrong drink. He said he defended himself by punching the person three times on the face until he fell then left the bar. He swears he did not start the situation but admits he was probably too drunk to read the warning signs.

Nearly a year later he was arrested by police and dragged back to the country on a European Arrest Warrant and after being kept on remand for 18 months, he was sentenced to a further 6 months then deported back to the UK.

He said he could have asked to be transferred back to the uk but chose not to due to not wanting to have a criminal record here.

I hate violence and would normally consider this a huge red flag but the person I have grown to know shows no signs of anger or threatening behaviour at all. During a Staff Xmas night out he calmed a drunken arguement down before a few people were likely to lose their jobs as a result of their behaviour. He rarely drinks, has spoken to me how much he hates drugs and seems highly educated, or at the very least very intelligent .

He told me he lost a high flying job, a fiancé who couldn't bare the shame and the respect of most of his family who wouldn't listen to the facts.

I feel terrible for him and really am starting to have feelings for him and I don't know if I'm being neurotic but i do have some concerns.

He is very articulate but sometimes shakes, struggles to speak without stammering and I wonder if that is a sign of underlying trauma?

I shamefully facebook stalked his ex and she looks like she has an airbrush fairy above her, I'm worried that he would always see me as second best?

Although my instincts tell me he's telling the truth I have no way to verify it as I can't google reports in the country due to not knowing where to look or speaking the language etc.. and every time I read about European Arrest Warrants it tends to involve Gangsters, People Traffickers or Terrorists. Would they really bother for someone getting a broken nose in a bar fight?

If I was on my own I wouldn't think twice but have DD to think about, but the logical part of my brain tells me that he was decent enough to tell me this before anything happened between us (tbh around 5 mins before as I was just about to physically drag him to bed) and at the risk of sounding like a teenager I really don't think I've connected with anyone like this before.

Sorry for the long post but please help?

Yes, I'm starting to think that this guy stands out from the "football, beer and horses" blokes at OPs work in all the wrong ways and for all the wrong reasons, many of the reasons being what the OP sees in him.

Some of these replys are really judgemental and I find them upsetting, as I said earlier I've found myself in a position where I've had to defend myself and until it happens to you , you really don't know how you'll react. Everyone is capable of aggression and violence , everyone.

Arguments can be diffused and possibly walked away from. Once a person has decided to physically attack you in public , with witnesses present , they are making a statement. The rules don't apply to them , they have demonstrated they're capable of extreme violence. Reasoning doesn't work once they've crossed that line. Does anyone think they're going to pause their frenzied attack to ask you how you feel about it ?

As I said previously , I was found not guilty via self defence. The law is pretty clear on this. I'm neither a criminal or a thug , but I won't stand and be physically attacked , not by anyone. Of course , there are issues with the ops story and I can see people's concern , but if what he says is true it doesn't mean run away in terror from him.

There are some people we do have to make judgements about. The OP asked for help making a judgement about this man, who she is already pretty involved with. No one has said run away screaming or stop working with him.

I was found not guilty via self defence. The law is pretty clear on this.

Spot the difference.

're self defence , the Op said there is a difference in laws in that country. It wouldn't have taken much for me to have been found guilty. Without knowing the facts of the case I think it's hard to say . My point is that just because someone has once defended themselves does not mean they're a on going risk for violence.

Having said that I would imagine there would be some details somewhere of this.

I learn self-defence.
I will use the techniques I've learnt if I have to. The philosophy I've been learning is that a defence must be an attack and an attack must be defensive.
But we are very clear about what constitutes self-defence and when it's overdoing it.

I'm still very worried about this man.

Hi ladies,

This will be my last post on the issue as I think this has spiralled into something else entirely.

I spoke to him tonight and the whole situation was totally innocent. It turns out he worked for MI6 at the time and was planted in a Russian jail to sneak out secret codes from an imprisoned oligarch. So all clear to go ahead now..

(Hope no more than a few of you took that seriously...)

I have spoken to him and told him for various reasons ( not just this) id like to take things really slowly and get to know him a bit better away from work/after work drinks etc...

The questions I asked him about Europe he answered as far as I could see, extremely honestly.

He showed me some papers about what happened, all tge dates etc.. Matched up with what he said, I felt really bad asking about it as although he said it didn't he was clearly uncomfortable but said he understood.

He showed me a webpage that told how the man that attacked him was jailed for 3 assaults and drug possession. (Karma some might say) Before anyone asks, the photo was the same as the one in the papers he showed me...

Now for some humble pie time, when he originally told me he was taken to Europe because of a warrant I was guilty of Google surfing , finding out about the Euro arrest warrant and deciding that's what happened. In fact the police force of the country contacted him through his ex- employer and asked if he was prepared to come back to assist with the investigation. He went a few weeks later then was held in remand for well over a year due to being a 'flight risk' despite coming back. Ironically this couldn't happen if it was a European Arrest Warrant as safeguards are in place over how long you can be kept on remand.

He pled guilty because the max sentence he could get was pretty much what he'd already done on remand and a guilty after trial could have added years. He also is unsure himself if the third punch was justified and that it was just a reaction.

I subtly tried to find out about the fiancé and family thing. He still talks to his fiancé on facebook (not that I read his page much ;( ) Bizzarely his best mate who he plays golf with every weekend is actually her brother. She couldn't handle the uncertainty and they just grew apart. His parents do talk to him but his family were never that close and although he never talks to one of his sisters he spends. 2 weeks in summer with the other one every year.

The rest of the things he told me I wouldn't feel right about placing on a public forum but he seems a nice balanced guy .

Now from what I've learned I'll get comments about how manipulative he is and to stay away from him, never give a second chance he could be the new Harold Shipman etc...

Then I started thinking, I've been the one posting on forums, stalking facebook accounts, speaking to anyone who knows him, starting conversations with ulterior motives of getting information about his family/friends etc..

Now if this happened TO me I'd be very pissed off, and I can't even use DD as an excuse because I have 50/50 custody with my exdh so no man I have a relationship with would ever have contact with her until 1,2 - 10 years down the line.

This thread has really highlighted people's perceptions about violence and I have actually found it really interesting.

You seem to get some people who believe they are above them or anyone they know having a criminal record or ever being in a fight. The comment about "not being the kind of people I choose" made me laugh out loud. Especially when so many brave people were honest enough to give real-life examples of when decent men/women were caught up in situations where there was no other option to defend themselves.

It reminded me of people's classic attitudes to the homeless, eg It's their own fault, it's their environment, it could never happen to me etc... and then one day it does happen and you realise how wrong you were. Bad things happen to good people.

It got me thinking of when I was barmaid during my student years in Glasgow. (Sorry to keep mentioning Glasgow, I really do love the place!) The Bouncers who worked at the pub were big hard looking men who to be honest with you were scary looking and big muscly typical doormen types. These guys would get attacked practically every week they worked the door, they responded by keeping their cool, trying to restrain the troublemakers until the police arrived.If this didn't work though it would often turn into a fistfight. Now once I got to know them most of these men were Dads working 2 or 3 jobs to support their families. In other words responsible decent men who gave up their weekends to provide for their kids. Yet, they were involved in some sort of punch-up every few weeks at least, which were caused by other drunken men of all income brackets, social classes and occupations.

These men who caused the fights live somewhere, they may be violent all the time, they may have felt sick after their first fight and never thrown a punch again, but they live somewhere and they don't advertise their shame publicly so even their nearest and dearest might not know.

Not having a conviction does not mean you have never committed a crime.

I've had some great advice from you all, whether I have agreed in it or not doesn't matter. It's been great to hear all your opinions.

Hairytoe xx

I actually believed that first bit ! It is late though , that's my excuse.

Thanks for updating :o Good luck with it all :)

You do have a child, this child needs you, and needs you to think carefully.

You say you'd be pissed off with someone checking you out, but given what you've been told, you have every right to. If you didn't, and someone came to harm, it would be your fault.

With this situation, with or without children involved, he has no right to be sniffy about people wanting to understand who he is and what has happened. If he can't deal with that, then he's not fit to know/date.

Don't ever feel bad for checking out your instincts, that's what they are there for.

If this thread had taught you anything, it should be that you can't afford to invest so much in someone you don't really know.

Agreed there has to be some kind of leap of faith, but one with a safety net, not leaping into darkness, hoping blind faith and hope will cushion your fall.

Any relationship that begins with you desperately having to defend how 'normal' violence is to other people has red flags all over it, IMO.

Agree that you shouldn't feel guilty for checking him out or asking him. I hope he hasn't made you feel guilty.
And why is he googling the man who attacked him?

I wonder if he wasn't arrested where I live it sounds very much like the system...

Anyway, I hope you still go slowly. His story about his family and fiance sounds different from the initial one. His parents will be in contact of course, and his sister.
Take care.

The other thing to consider is your ExH. If he gets wind of this, he'll be rightly concerned about the safety of his dd.

You owe it to all concerned to become an expert in the truth relating to this man. You potentially have a lot of genuinely concerned people that will need and merit answers.

I'm sorry but I honestly think he's a fantasist who's fed you a pack of lies. I once dated a man who said he was a marine, ex secret service etc. Turned out he was on the dole after being sacked from his well paid job for absenteeism and living a secret life with another woman (, whom he became engaged to whilst still married.

That's a reassuring update, Hairy, thank you! Your first statement made me laugh!

I don't think you were unreasonable to investigate - much of his story, as you knew it, didn't add up and it makes perfect sense to want to know more before you think about getting closer. You were not wrong.

The EAW frightened me because of the parameters on it. It just can't be used for violent crimes of an everyday type. I'm pleased to hear this wasn't actually the case here, and don't mind you fibbing because I learned a lot about international policing

Good luck!

Maryz

**

As I read it, I was going in my head "Has she actually believed this crap?"

Odd choice of opening for an update, though...

It was a good opening for an update. The OP was reflecting on how the thread was full of people jumping to conclusions and made an amusing joke based on that.

Good luck OP. But do take things slowly and keep your wits about you.

"Not a single decent man i know has thrown a single punch, not one"

I cant disagree with this more - I have a close male friend, gets on better with women than men, prefers music to football - not "blokey" in any way. Due to the fact that he is slightly built he has been picked on a few times and beaten up badly - one time after telling his drunk attacker that "I dont want to do this" and the guy repeatedly coming back at him - he hit him back knocking him down and breaking his nose (unknown to him my friend briefly did martial arts as a child) This was all witnessed not word of mouth.

I think it is possible for a man to get into that situation without being "that kind of man" - although for the country to track him down and take him back I think personally I would be cautious.

LOL I read the first bit of the update and went

"Bad things happen to good people" Agree - there are men who will pick on somone for the sake of it when they have had a drink and I think occasionaly a nice bloke will have to throw a punch or 2 for self preservation...now if he starts to look like he has a short fuse in any way then get out, dont justify it to yourself.

I think you will be ok if you just take it slowly and run for the hills if you start to have reservations about him.

Thanks for the update OP. Just goes to show a "balanced" view is a good one.

OP, if you are happy dating a criminal, then that's up to you. I am assuming that his current employers know about it and you are aware of restrictions it may result in in the future.

I think your justification of it is annoying people though. You just don't get held on remand for such long periods of time in European countries for minor offences. You get asked to go back nicely before arrest. If he had been involved in such a serious bar brawl resulting in 3 punches, he would have known he would be required to assist with the investigation at some point and could have made a voluntary statement. Nearly all (in fact I think all) European countries recognise a wide range of defences, including self defence. His fiancé leaving him is really nothing to do (neither is the way she looks) but she obviously had her reasons.

I find it ironic that your post makes a point of him being so different from the "football, beer and horses" crowd when the whole incident resulted from him being in a bar and involved in a fight.

But as I say, if you are happy dating a criminal, then that's your business. Criminals are entitled to rehabilitation, its in no-one's interests if they are unable to earn a living, unable to form personal relationships, etc.. It may just have been an unfortunate juxtaposition of circumstances - but three punches - I suspect that's what led to conviction being pursued. The average man would maybe react with one punch or two, but it takes quite a lot of practice to inflict three successive punches one after the other on the spur of the moment.

Just saying.

Seems an awful lot of angst for just a bloke

.

"He also is unsure himself if the third punch was justified"