Inviting a Crossdresser on your Hen Night

[rachelmonday1]

I'm actually a guy that enjoys crossdressing and am very fortunate to have a number of female friends, one of whom is getting married and has invited me to join her friends on her Hen Night. I don't look too bad when I'm dressed as Rachel and often go out with the girls with no problems.

I'm happily married and my wife understands the "Rachel" side of me, but thinks it's odd that a girl would invite a crossdresser on her Hen Night.

Any views out there?

I'd like to see how some of the 'it's fine, it's not sexist at all!' posters on here reacted if I;

a) Dressed up in a traditional Ghanaian outfit, as I think it's snazzy and enjoy wearing it, to meet my Ghanaian friends (yes, I have some, I'm not being disingenuous)

b) Dressed up in a traditional Ghanaian outfit to meet my Ghanaian friends and renamed myself Ekuwa while I was wearing it, to let out my Ghanaian side, as I enjoy wearing the clothes so I must be embracing my Ghanaian side, n'est pas?

c) Dressed up in a traditional Ghanaian outfit to meet my Ghanaian friends and renamed myself Ekuwa, AND blacked up, to let out my Ghanaian side, as I enjoy wearing the clothes so why not fully embrace the Ghanaian me? I wouldn't want to be Ghanaian of course but surely ape-ing a Ghanaian for a bit is ok?

As far as I can see a) would be absolutely fine, b) and c) would be very offensive and 'off' afaik. Replace Ghanaian with female and blacking up with over the top make-up and what's the difference?

I don't know, I think... That's why I answered a question asking me what I think by saying 'I think...'.

I get that you believe in gender stereotypes but I think that's related to the fact you believe this is not offensive.

" if they wanted to bind their own feet and wear tiny shoes I'd have no issue with it."

LOL.

Why on earth does anyone sane want to break the bones in their feet and then bind the broken feet up in order to make the toes turn back towards the ankle in a perfect O so that when they eventually set, a man can put his penis in that perfect O and wank into it. The fact that you can't walk anymore, being secondary to the fact that your feet can provide a good wank-hole for a man.

Why would a woman ever actively want to mutilate herself like that for that purpose? (And by the way, women never did, it was done to girls between the ages of 3 and 8 ish, any later than that and you wouldn't get the perfect O.)

I think when you talk about women wanting to do things which are physically harmful to them, you need to look at the context in which women want to do those things. Our wants and our choices don't happen in a contextless vacuum.

He wouldn't want to bind his own though would he? He would want to 'mimic' binding them. He wouldn't actually break his bones. He doesn't want to be permanently crippled, just to have 'fun' for a bit.

if they wanted to bind their own feet and wear tiny shoes I'd have no issue with it

Well I would, I would think they had serious issues that led them to self-mutilate and enjoy doing so and think that mutilation = feminine= woman.

If they were to do it and then simper over how feminine and girly and pretty bound feet and tiny shoes are, in the company of women who had their feet bound as young girls in order to please men, I would find them sickening. And as misogynistic as they are self-absorbed.

Blimey. Still going? Who'd a thought...?

Thing I don't get here, is why if you want to dress other would you pick the boring end of the spectrum? I'm female. I have a wardrobe full of stuff from jeans through to a silk minidress. Now, why were I male would I want to wear er normal clothes like jeans when I could wear a silk mini with bling glam hair and carvela heels?

Were I to want to dress male, what makes you think I'd pick Levi's? Personally I'd probably pick a uniform. As it's peacocking. I probably look male ish half time already. But stick me in an army dress uniform and I could be persuaded.

Feminist theory is very interesting. Just kinda misses the basics occasionally I feel....

The very existence of gender stereotypes, is not automatically sexist

Of course a gender stereotype is sexist. It is by nature reductive and disappears the individual. Stereotypes go hand in hand with prejudice and discrimination. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotype

"Stereotypes, prejudice, and discrimination are understood as related but different concepts. Stereotypes are regarded as the most cognitive component and often occurs without conscious awareness, whereas prejudice is the affective component of stereotyping and discrimination is the behavioral component of prejudicial reactions. In this tripartite view of intergroup attitudes, stereotypes reflect expectations and beliefs about the characteristics of members of groups perceived as different from one's own, prejudice represents the emotional response, and discrimination refers to actions."

Men and women are equal in terms of value

Right. This is why we have so many women Presidents and Prime Ministers. This is why female dominated professions are so well paid and respected. This is why women the world over are as rich, literate and in the public eye as men. This is why female fetuses are not aborted in their millions in China and India....

Society values men way above women and allocates high status to men and the construct of masculinity and low status to women and the construct of femininity.

It's my opinion and analysis, if it happens to be the same as some feminist theory great. But why is my reasoning being held up and insulted as 'feminist theory'. If you want to criticise the view please do but I'm not comfortable with the generalising and the nebulous insult.

I loathe crossdressing and agree with just about everything Offred has said. Fine, wear a dress, no problem at all with that but don't put in a girly voice and pretend to be a woman. It's offensive and demeaning.

Richard, imagine a woman got clothes she thought you(as a man) would look good in, drew facial hair they felt you should have, lowered their voice and imitated your manner of speaking and walking then said "hi I'm Richard," in a stereotypical "manly" way. Would you feel flattered? Or embarrassed and parodied?

Talking to anyone putting on fake mannerisms and a fake voice is weird and annoying. But when those mannerisms are supposed to mirror your mannerisms it's incredibly belittling, as anyone with a noticeable accent or speech impediment will attest to. I find it quite shocking but not surprising that women like your friends Richard actually seek out that mockery. Perhaps it's the only way some women feel "understood" by men - they feel your tights and wigs version of womanhood is as close as they'll get to seeing any man really trying to get what being a woman actually means.

I wonder if in the future cross-dressing in this way will be regarded in the same way as blacking-up now?

One other thing I am wondering about is why would someone post pictures of themselves like this on a website primarily used by women? Does the OP think that women will look at these pictures and be impressed? It must take a very high level of personal confidence to post such pictures in a female-dominated environment.

I don't think it is possible for men to "pass" as a woman in public. I think people may be too polite to mention anything, but I have never seen (either in pictures or in real life) a cross-dresser who doesn't look like a man in a dress and wig.

I agree with cardamomginger about the use of "she" too. It is not appropriate, it is offensive. Putting on make up and a dress does not make you a woman.

I think a tiny tiny number of short, slight feminine looking men can "pass" as a woman in public, but it is exceedingly rare. It is also extremely offensnsive.

Really? Well you are trying to minimise the point I made and others. You are the one attempting throughout to try to make those disagreeing look stupid by non stop attempts at trumping. All I'm saying is sometimes the most obvious could be the answer. Or at least part answer.

Tbh I'm not sure I do disagree. I'm just finding it much harder to care about it, with so many other areas of injustice to women, a few guys thinking they look marvellous in this way just easily ignorable. Politely saying yup you look lovely have a nice night is perhaps the best subversion....

I'm not sure why it is ever a good plan to ignore sexism.

A couple more points for consideration/debate...

Several people have mentioned blacking up and it being offensive. How does fake/spray tan sit on that spectrum?

There seems to be a lot of assumption that anyone dressing as anything they're not is inherently offensive. What about the old adage: Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery?

I'd like to see how some of the 'it's fine, it's not sexist at all!' posters on here reacted if

Actually, I was one of the "what's sexist about it?" posters at the start of this thread. But I have since been convinced by the arguments of Offred, Beachcomber, Cakehanded and others.

Interesting thread, guys, thank you.

This has been an interesting, and it has hhelped me understand my own uneasiness with crossdressing. And why I feel differently about Eddie Izard in heels oradress (i don't mind it because he isn't pretending to be a woman)

Yes I am fine with Eddie Izzard as well. He doesn't say he is cross dressing. He just sees clothes as pieces of clothing and wears what he likes. Which is actually as I think it should be.

Yes but he doesn't say it is women's clothing.

Thank goodness that I am not alone in finding cross-dressing patronising and hideous. Getting in touch with your feminine side or "expressing femininity" ffs? Who's idea of femininity exactly?

Wear what you want but don't dress "as a woman" call yourself "Rachel" and expect me to be flattered by your shallow, two dimensional portrayal of a female.

This has turned into a really horrible thread.

Really daleybum? Count up the number of female posters who say it has been an interesting/eye-opening thread. Why is it so horrible?