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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

mortified at BIL and reaction to request for loan

240 replies

vexedveg · 03/04/2014 00:31

I have name changed for this.
I was not sure where to put this thread but hoping this is the right section

I want to give a bit of background to avoid drip feeding so bear with me. This outpouring is lonnnnnnnnnng!

DP and I dont have a lot of spare money - less so these days like alot of people but we are lucky to have got by to date with no credit cards, no loans and no debts ( apart from mortgage).. We lead a relatively frugal life and are v careful with money - dont really go out alot and our last family holiday was 4 years ago (was able to combine it with a work related trip to keep flight costs down). I buy most of our clothes from charity shops / car boot sales. We do however make sure DD gets things like swimming classes, membership of a running club.

we have one DD and pg with number 2.

I dont come from a well off background but my family is close and all help each other out as much as possible, whenever we can. I struggle with asking for any kind of help from people, including my family and have never owed anyone any money. Personally i find it really hard but also know i have been very lucky not to be in that position until now.

DP's family is somewhat different and alot more money focused. He is the youngest son with 2 older brothers, very successful in the financial sector in the city. They lead very different lifestyles to us and refer to us as the paupers and black sheep of the family. I have never had a v good relationship with eldest BIL, just very different people with different views and values. He once told me that i "should go home to the other f**king gypos". His words not mine. I am Irish.

He however is always offering to help us out and has repeatedly told DP that if there is ever anything he can do help out -including with money - to just ask, he is there for him and nothing would be too much. He always tells us how many millions he has in bank, how much he makes a month etc etc. He has laughed at our flat -saying that its overall value wouldnt even cover the value of his broom cupboard.
We never ever have asked for anything ( and even paid his share of MIL's funeral a few years ago when he refused to contribute.)

We both work FT earning just less than average salary each and live in a small flat in a building with other home buyers and some housing association tenants.

2 weeks ago we were presented with an unexpected bill for 25 k each for compulsory work in our area on subsidence - a bolt out of the blue and a total shock. We do not have those kinds of savings and my family in no way has access to that kind of money.

DP's first thought was to ask BIL to help out and I refused, wanting to explore all other options first. Have spoken to council about a repayment plan and tried to look at how to balance our books and fit in the repayments over the 2 years we have been given as well as cope with my mat leave. DP finally persuaded me that he would ask BIL for a LOAN for 1/3 amount which we would repay with interest- not to be given it as a handout or to keep.

We spent ages coming up with an email, basically explaining the situation and stating that we would really appreciate the loan, would repay it as soon as we could, how hard we both found it to ask but of course, if it wasnt possible it was not a problem and we would go back to the bank. i honestly felt sick writing it and v v embarassed at sending it.

I was dreading his reply but didnt expect what we got.

He didnt get back for a week, fair enough. When he did, he told us that he has been trying to find ways to get us out of paying at all, speaking to the council and pretending to be our debt adviser. he told them we are in massive debt and will not be paying.
he says he wont give us a loan as he thinks this would be propping up our lifestyle, that this will be a valuable life lesson and that he thinks we should be supporting the banks through a loan from them. He also said that he found it strange that we would not be able to find that amount as it is such a small amount. He also sad he was angry that we would approach him in the first place and it wasnt his fault that I came from "tinkers and layabout" stock. He said he was embarassed that his own brother would have to stoop so low as to ask for a handout. We didnt.

we have since found out that BIL shared our email with other family members in a - "jeez - what are they like" and "cant quite believe I have a brother so low on the social rung"

i feel very hurt and embarassed. Not at that he isnt going to give us a loan but at what he said. DP is shocked that when he finally had to ask for something, this is what has happened. I am also angry that even when he knew how hard we found it to go cap in hand for a loan, he shared this and is basically making a laugh of us behind our backs.

I suppose i am not really asking for advice - we will get through it somehow but wanted somewhere to vent.

well done for making it to the end... Smile

OP posts:
AnnRuleRules · 03/04/2014 22:22

Oh meant to add...my extended family is Irish on one side and they ROCK!!! My English side regularly says how embarrassed they are that they can't have fun and laugh just so easily as my lovely Irish side (which is not true as they are pretty fun too). I identify as Irish. Your BIL is one envious, deeply unhappy little man.

BakerStreetSaxRift · 03/04/2014 23:29

OP this can definitely be challenged, don't just accept what the council have said.

Are you in Scotland? There was a scam by (I think) councils in (I think) Edinburgh where they were getting their special contractors in to do work on the roofs of buildings then presenting hire owners with a bill for sometimes upwards of £50k. They uncovered it.

Definitely challenge it.

BakerStreetSaxRift · 03/04/2014 23:29

Hire is meant to be home

vexedveg · 06/04/2014 15:50

good afternoon folks.
I am sorry i havent been back to post for a few days - it has been busy.

Soooo much good advice here and we worked out a to-do list on basis of it.

We spoke to Lease who were just excellent - so lovely and reassuring and talked me down when i started to cry on phone.. Smile. They thought due process had not been followed by council and gave us details of soliticitor to make appt with, who is knowledgable and specialist in this issue. I am going to see them tomorrow with all our paper work. i spoke with one of them on the phone who thought it sounded unusual but obv couldnt say too much until they began a bit more work on it.

We called a home buyers meeting together in our block in our flat. V interesting as it seems we all have been given different advice form council when we had queried it, in terms of repayment terms / time frame. We were told 2 years - others 4 years (the latter which would make it easier). We were also told different things about means tested grants but we are the only flat buyers in our block with 2 people working - most of the rest are retired / on pensions or are no longer repaying a mortgage. One eldery woman was told she would only have to pay 10k, another 15k so unsure why there are different amounts for different people.

I also spoke with 2 residents who are local authority tenants. The council will be paying their bill but they didnt even know there was a need for work and had received no communication.

It was actually really lovely to get us all together and whilst there was high emotion at times (directed to housing association and council), it was really positive too. It felt that none of us were just quite as isolated and we want to arrange these on a quartelery basis - something we really should have been doing anyhow. Plus my DD got the chance to play at being a waitress and serving her lovingly iced cup cakes.

We also made contact with a rep in our community council who was v knowledgable about local info and it seems that the issue with "sink holes" / subsidence has been known about by council for over 35 years and there was issues around this in the past ( with a small block of garages collapsing into a hole overnight!). He is gathering together papers / documents for us to show that this is something the council should have addressed years ago but has chosen not to. Also flags up questions as to

I spoke with our housing association re the insurance. 2 different people with different info - interestingly one said that the 25k was the amount due AFTER the insurance was claimed (??) and another said that they didnt know if such works is covered. I am speaking directly to insurers (on behalf of all home buyers) to find out the score. It seems unlikely that we would each have an excess of 25k on a policy but we shall see.

Feeling more positive and not as daunted by it all. It has really made me doubt the wisdom in having bought an ex-LA flat as this is an issue that can keep arising

Some people asked about MIL estate. She in no way lived a lifestyle like her elder 2 sons. We frequently helped her out with rent / bills / food etc. Her estate's executor was the middle BIL. She had a large number of debts on credit / store cards, back rent and bills etc. She used to have a big jewellery collection which none of us quite know where it went. We were told that when all creditors had been settled - there was about 42 left which her DC donated to a charity. I honestly dont think 2nd BIL lied over the estate.

DP contacted his aunt. She was so nice about it all and really delighted to find out that i am pg ( we havent told anyone to date). She also told us that this is not the first time BIL has bad mouthed us and been quite horrible about us behind our backs but she felt this had reached a new low. She did say that others in the family dont respond or "laugh along" with him but neither have they challenged him. She said she feels awful about that now. She offered DP 1000 to help out saying that she had included him (and not the other 2 BILs) in her will and wanted to give us this now when we really needed it. She was also adamant that our DD's small savings should not be touched. Of course - this made me weep again. (alot of that these days! ) I am uncomfortable with taking her money and we will only do so if the final bill we get means we really need to.

As for BIL - he did NOT contact the council - or at least if he did, there is no record anywhere on our file that such communication took place. I find this baffling as to why he would tell us such a thing? I honesty can find no rationale explanation for it but it was a weight lifted. I felt foolish though asking the council dept.

DP emailed BIL back - as per Balloon's suggestion. We got an automatic response "unable to answer your email as we are on holiday in courcheval ski-ing for 3 weeks and staying in the same chalet as Kate and Wills!" BIL did text him tho- exact words = "Sun, snow and ski-ing - raising a glass to you and your family!" with 2 lovely pictures. One of him smiling broadly with a glass of champagne and another of his son's weekly ski-lessons ticket at 900 euros. I cant help but think it was a a provocative gesture but that is it done with him.

Thanks folks for your ideas and support. When he shattered a bit of my belief in humanity - you more than restored it. DP feels the same. x

OP posts:
mynamesnotwendy · 06/04/2014 15:56

Are you sure he actually has money?

8isalotoflegsDavid · 06/04/2014 15:56

That is wonderful news vex I am so pleased that things look less daunting for you. Good luck with your baby and I hope you get all the support you need from all these agencies now involved. I'm sure it will all be fine in the end.

Your BIL is an utter arse and I hope your DH sees him for what he is now, and never gives him a second thought again.

DustBunnyFarmer · 06/04/2014 15:59

Fantastic update OP - thanks for taking the trouble to post again. Sounds like some good has really come from all this - especially your lovely aunt & neighbours. Good luck with the specialist solicitor. I'd love to hear the outcome if are able to successfully challenge your £25k bill.

DustBunnyFarmer · 06/04/2014 16:01

Oh yeah, also sounds like you'd be well rid of the wanker BIL. Life's just too short to be putting up with his shit.

Squeegle · 06/04/2014 16:08

Thanks for posting your update. What you have taken on is inspiring, good on you for organising the neighbours. Your aunt's kindness almost brought a year to my eye. It seems like while there are some real tw*ts out there like BIL, they are more than outweighed by kind people who recognise integrity when they see it.

Good luck to you both, your lovely daughter and your new baby when he or she arrives.

Squeegle · 06/04/2014 16:09

Sorry, of course I meant tear rather than yearSmile

BillyBanter · 06/04/2014 16:11

Thanks for update. Sounds like mostly good news too.

What a surprise that it was you two who helped your MIL out financially, not your fabulously rich and superior BIL. Who'd have thunk it.

Having heard what your aunt had to say I'm tiny bit disappointed that you didn't cc everyone in on your email and totally blow his lies and malice out of the water, but I realise that is as much for my own satisfaction.

I'm sure he will begrudge the £1k your aunt is leaving to you too.

I'm glad you are done with him. Please be honest when/if anyone asks why.

DustBunnyFarmer · 06/04/2014 16:14

I doubt it will ever occur to him to ask why. Never does to folk like him.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch · 06/04/2014 16:24

"another of his son's weekly ski-lessons ticket at 900 euros. I cant help but think it was a a provocative gesture but that is it done with him."

Yes, you are right. What a complete fuckweasel.

winkywinkola · 06/04/2014 16:33

What a bragging buffoon.

You can bet the only friends he has are utter dickheads like himself.

I loathe that swaggering, blatant displaying of wealth. It just says, "I have lots more money than you."

Why would anyone want to do that? Unless you are a knobber.

ThatVikRinA22 · 06/04/2014 17:06

do you believe in Karma vexed ? because i do....it sometimes take years and years but it will come back and take a huge tasty chunk out of his mean, nasty, cruel, arse.

just sit back and wait for it.
then send him an email equal to his own

RandomMess · 06/04/2014 17:20

What a lovely update Smile, best of all will be when you've hopefully found a way out having to pay the money!

You now know that your BIL isn't worth bothering with at all.
You know the aunt is lovely
You've met the neighbours and will hopefully end up with friends with some of them
You are being proactive in sorting it all out.

SB2014 · 06/04/2014 17:45

I do not believe in Karma. To believe means that if something bad happens to someone, they must have done something bad at some time to deserve it.
Bad things happen to good people and good things happen to the bad. Life is a game of chance.

Bad chance fell on Vex and she has embraced it, thanks to excellent advice here, turning into good. I.E, Vex is using the bad to her advantage. Holding the meeting, becoming a mini expert no doubt about building and procedures at the Council.

How are you splitting the lawyers costs? No need to reply, just don't want you ripped of.

My concern is you are doing all the work and paying, while others who aren't, benefit. Please make sure all the residents put their hands in their pockets, and pull out some money.

VivaLeBeaver · 06/04/2014 18:18

He's a nob. What's the point of posting you a photo of a 900 euro receipt for ski lessons??? I'd put the photo on Facebook and tag him and ask him why he thought you'd be interested?

vexedveg · 06/04/2014 18:35

Viva - we often get texted pictures like that from him and his wife. Usually with some form of a "ha, ha, our life is great" kinda of message. When their son started private school - BIL sent us a pic. Lovely to see DN on his first day. Unusual tho' to tell us how much the uniform cost, the annual fees and asking if DP felt bad that he couldn't "invest" the same in our DD.

I could share many examples of this kind of thing but drawing a line around our wee family to keep him / them out.

OP posts:
DustBunnyFarmer · 06/04/2014 18:38

What a twat. You sound lovely, though.

VivaLeBeaver · 06/04/2014 18:40

If I were your dp I would have to say something. When he asked if you felt bad about not being able to invest as much in your DC I'd have to ask him if he felt bad for being such a nasty, shallow, mean, selfish fucking cunt.

Then I'd never speak to him again. Why would you want to? Please don't. He sounds toxic.

joanofarchitrave · 06/04/2014 18:57

'Unusual tho' to tell us how much the uniform cost, the annual fees and asking if DP felt bad that he couldn't "invest" the same in our DD.'

The only downside to not having this person in your life is the loss of the incredible comedy gold he is clearly providing on a regular basis...

I think your reaction so far shows your resourcefulness and good character. Good luck in the future.

NoArmaniNoPunani · 06/04/2014 19:01

Wow, this man is an absolute bell end. The aunty sounds lovely though

TheDoctrineOfSnatch · 06/04/2014 19:05

The more I hear about this man, the more I dislike him.

eddielizzard · 06/04/2014 19:09

what an absolute prick. what on earth is his problem? who would do that?