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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

mortified at BIL and reaction to request for loan

240 replies

vexedveg · 03/04/2014 00:31

I have name changed for this.
I was not sure where to put this thread but hoping this is the right section

I want to give a bit of background to avoid drip feeding so bear with me. This outpouring is lonnnnnnnnnng!

DP and I dont have a lot of spare money - less so these days like alot of people but we are lucky to have got by to date with no credit cards, no loans and no debts ( apart from mortgage).. We lead a relatively frugal life and are v careful with money - dont really go out alot and our last family holiday was 4 years ago (was able to combine it with a work related trip to keep flight costs down). I buy most of our clothes from charity shops / car boot sales. We do however make sure DD gets things like swimming classes, membership of a running club.

we have one DD and pg with number 2.

I dont come from a well off background but my family is close and all help each other out as much as possible, whenever we can. I struggle with asking for any kind of help from people, including my family and have never owed anyone any money. Personally i find it really hard but also know i have been very lucky not to be in that position until now.

DP's family is somewhat different and alot more money focused. He is the youngest son with 2 older brothers, very successful in the financial sector in the city. They lead very different lifestyles to us and refer to us as the paupers and black sheep of the family. I have never had a v good relationship with eldest BIL, just very different people with different views and values. He once told me that i "should go home to the other f**king gypos". His words not mine. I am Irish.

He however is always offering to help us out and has repeatedly told DP that if there is ever anything he can do help out -including with money - to just ask, he is there for him and nothing would be too much. He always tells us how many millions he has in bank, how much he makes a month etc etc. He has laughed at our flat -saying that its overall value wouldnt even cover the value of his broom cupboard.
We never ever have asked for anything ( and even paid his share of MIL's funeral a few years ago when he refused to contribute.)

We both work FT earning just less than average salary each and live in a small flat in a building with other home buyers and some housing association tenants.

2 weeks ago we were presented with an unexpected bill for 25 k each for compulsory work in our area on subsidence - a bolt out of the blue and a total shock. We do not have those kinds of savings and my family in no way has access to that kind of money.

DP's first thought was to ask BIL to help out and I refused, wanting to explore all other options first. Have spoken to council about a repayment plan and tried to look at how to balance our books and fit in the repayments over the 2 years we have been given as well as cope with my mat leave. DP finally persuaded me that he would ask BIL for a LOAN for 1/3 amount which we would repay with interest- not to be given it as a handout or to keep.

We spent ages coming up with an email, basically explaining the situation and stating that we would really appreciate the loan, would repay it as soon as we could, how hard we both found it to ask but of course, if it wasnt possible it was not a problem and we would go back to the bank. i honestly felt sick writing it and v v embarassed at sending it.

I was dreading his reply but didnt expect what we got.

He didnt get back for a week, fair enough. When he did, he told us that he has been trying to find ways to get us out of paying at all, speaking to the council and pretending to be our debt adviser. he told them we are in massive debt and will not be paying.
he says he wont give us a loan as he thinks this would be propping up our lifestyle, that this will be a valuable life lesson and that he thinks we should be supporting the banks through a loan from them. He also said that he found it strange that we would not be able to find that amount as it is such a small amount. He also sad he was angry that we would approach him in the first place and it wasnt his fault that I came from "tinkers and layabout" stock. He said he was embarassed that his own brother would have to stoop so low as to ask for a handout. We didnt.

we have since found out that BIL shared our email with other family members in a - "jeez - what are they like" and "cant quite believe I have a brother so low on the social rung"

i feel very hurt and embarassed. Not at that he isnt going to give us a loan but at what he said. DP is shocked that when he finally had to ask for something, this is what has happened. I am also angry that even when he knew how hard we found it to go cap in hand for a loan, he shared this and is basically making a laugh of us behind our backs.

I suppose i am not really asking for advice - we will get through it somehow but wanted somewhere to vent.

well done for making it to the end... Smile

OP posts:
Justeat · 03/04/2014 09:40

What a shit!

JamNan · 03/04/2014 09:43

I would have thought your buildings insurance would cover you for this type of unexpected cost. I can imagine the shock this must caused you. I think you need some legal advice.

Cut the BIL out of your lives. From personal experience I can tell you it is liberating never having to listen to or see ex-family again.

PartialFancy · 03/04/2014 10:22

Second what others have said - your MIL's funeral should have come out of the estate unless she didn't have enough to cover it. It even has priority over other debts.

What to do after a death in Scotland. It's the same in England & Wales.

Please don't tell me it was chancer BIL who administered the estate?

Charley50 · 03/04/2014 10:39

Your BIL is an absolute CUNT I am gobsmacked!
What a wanker.

Haven't read thread so I'm sure someone else has said this (who knows more about these things than me) but I think your property managment company/council/HA is trying to rip you off and it might be a very good idea to get together with the other residents and form an association. I think you can even take over managment of the building if they are being fraudulent. I would speak to the council or CAB or a solicitor if I were you.

Charley50 · 03/04/2014 10:52

And how could they get away with asking you for 25,000 each if you own one property? I've read the rest of the thread now and I'm glad you are getting legal advice. I really would try and ge ttogether with the other people in the building - strength in numbers etc. and why should you all pay for legal advice separately but for the same thing... if you see what i mean..good luck, please don't worry, i'm sure they can't do this.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 03/04/2014 10:59

OP, I honestly think that every word you've written shows the height of decency - you may not have the money your BIL has (IF he really does have it!!) but by god you've got so much more going for you, not least your lovely OH. Your decision of course, but I really can't see how you can possibly avoid cutting contact with the poisonous insects for ever

Also completely bemused about the demand for £25k and how they can enforce it; it just sounds thoroughly dodgy. I'm really hoping your research will show it can't be made to stick ...

Pantone363 · 03/04/2014 11:18

This is what I would do

Phone council and see if the call was made

Compose email to all family apologizing that they have been drawn into a personal matter. Mention that as BIL as always offered a loan and clearly has the money you thought it was an option but clearly it is not. However as BIL has plainly made his opinion of you and DH clear "tinkers and layabouts" you feel it best to distance yourselves from such a nasty judgemental person. Make it clear all the options you explored first before asking BIL and how difficult it was to ask for the loan. Drop in a mention of funeral payment and how BIL didn't pay so understand that his reaction may be is understandable if he himself is struggling with money. Tell them this is the end of the issue as far as you are concerned and BIL is not to contact you again.

Anything nasty will be turned around to you not getting your own way and sulking because he won't lend you the money.

cozietoesie · 03/04/2014 11:24

...Please don't tell me it was chancer BIL who administered the estate?....

Just what I was thinking. I've acted as executor to more than one estate and it all sounds most irregular.

nauticant · 03/04/2014 11:26

In the OP's place I wouldn't send an email to the in-laws family. There'll be people on BIL's side who'll think the OP is lying, there'll be people who are neutral who'll be annoyed that they're being drawn into a battle, there'll be people who'll rub their hands in glee, and anyone else will probably just shake their heads at it all.

Once the email has been received, it's contents and the OP's intent behind it will be manipulated and the OP will not be able to set the record straight.

If the OP does decide to send an email, it should be brief and factual. No more than half a dozen two/three line paragraphs setting out what has really happened and where the BIL is simply wrong.

ScarletWomanoftheVillage · 03/04/2014 11:48

Dear BRO,

That's fine. Thought your offers of help were sincere. My mistake, should have known better!

Bro

HelloBoys · 03/04/2014 13:18

This is awful. really hate filled vitriol. I'd cut him out of your lives and suggest brother does the same. If it affects FIL what can you say?

what an evil piece of shit.

My mother had to cut contact with a close half sister of hers a few years back after things which happened with half sister M and HS's (M) DH after stepmother got Alzheimers and father (mother's father) died. There were court cases, legal stuff etc. The other half sister L quite rightly for similar reasons refuses to speak to M even though she divorced her DH who was a major part of the problem and protagonist. People get on with their lives and both sisters (my mum and L) don't regret what they've done especially as they gave M countless chances before.

Catkinsthecatinthehat · 03/04/2014 13:31

I second the advice of another poster who recommended the free advice service Lease - their FAQ covers a lot of major work issues and your right to challenge bills. Also, talk to your MP.

Also not surprised that evil BIL works in financial services. I was once stuck in a restaurant party with a big cheese at a famous investment bank who made a point of abusing the waiters. When I called him on it he said he was doing it because they deserved it for not being capable of earning lots of money....

BeforeAndAfter · 03/04/2014 13:47

I'm not sure if it's been suggested but a meeting with all other owners should help. You could share ideas and any advice you obtain. You may need to do a bit of legwork to identify other home owners in your block but it would be worth it. 25k is a huge amount of money to demand and I wonder how the council has apportioned this charge. They should be providing you with a full account of total costs, with each cost itemised and the breakdown of the allocation to each flat.

If you have a law school nearby they often do free legal work and it's pretty good advice. Google 'pro bono advice' to see what law firms in your area offer for free.

Your BIL sounds nasty and toxic. Give him a life lesson and cut him out completely.

Zipadeedoodaa · 03/04/2014 13:47

Your BIL sounds vile, but I find even more disturbing is the demand from the council for £25k.

Get legal advice immediately, not the CAB, but proper legal advice. Even if you have to pay for the consultation it would be worth it. Don't assume that you have to pay this money.

Zip x

TheSilveryPussycat · 03/04/2014 13:55

The CAB would just point you in the direction of a sol who did a free initial interview anyway. your local CAB might know whether others have had similar bills, but they wouldn't be able to tell you who they are though.

TheSilveryPussycat · 03/04/2014 13:56

I mean, I think this is too specialist for the CAB, not that they palm people off! (I used to be employed as a CAB advisor)

zipzap · 03/04/2014 14:20

How many other households are there in the block - are they all having to find £25,000 or is the council paying for he council tenants or is it splitting the cost just between those that own their own their own flats and expecting you to shoulder the lot?

Do you have legal cover on your home or car insurance? They usually have a helpline you can call in circumstances like this which is a cheap way to get fast proper advice..

I'd also post up about the demand in the legal section on here - there's already been some great advice on this thread but if you post up something with more of the specifics I bet it could also provide some useful help.

As for your awful bil - you're right, he has done a mean bitchy thing by copying in your family and for being so rude about something that he had offered previously. Just ignore him from here on - once you have sorted out why you paid funeral costs and he didn't - and if the estate should have done. Maybe the estate did pay up - even to him if he told them that he'd paid and forgot to mention that you we're the ones that actually paid the cash out.

I'd definitely be reporting him to his professional body - his email is proof enough that he contacted the council on your behalf, because either he did contact them which is bad - or he didn't and lied to you... Also refusing to pay for things because the funeral home might forget is an appalling attitude for somebody supposed to be honest in financial services!

DustBunnyFarmer · 03/04/2014 14:27

Your BIL is a cunt of the highest order.

Just wanted to suggest that when FIL pops his clogs your H refuses to contribute to funeral costs on the basis he met 2/3 of MIL's so has paid his share, though the others are right about funeral costs usually being met from the estate (if there is one). A rum do on all fronts.

DustBunnyFarmer · 03/04/2014 14:29

I forgot to say how lovely your little family sounds. I know who I'd rather be stuck on a desert island with. Good luck with baby #2.

Pobblewhohasnotoes · 03/04/2014 14:48

You know what, I bet your bil has been waiting for the day you ask, just so he could say no. He sounds that spiteful.

I'm shocked that a council could just bill people for £25k!

Iworrymyselftosleep · 03/04/2014 15:09

Back in the day I was the person who sent out letters like this for a LA - certainly sums like this weren't unusual. Im NOT supporting that btw - just saying that it did happen regularly to people who bought ex LA flats in a block. I was a naive twenty yo temp and I couldn't believe it. Some blocks had two or three different repair schemes and the homeowners had to pay their pro rata share of each scheme. I hated the job and quit as soon I could. It was a council in the north of London.

BIL has definitely broken data protection rules if he has been speaking to the LA on your behalf without your permission.

I hope you get better terms veg.

KathrynJaneway · 03/04/2014 15:20

You can't buy class and he's just proved that!! What an ignoramus!!

Can't believe that bill, it just seems so outlandish. What kind of 'works'?

ineedabodytransplant · 03/04/2014 16:18

Keep things simple - do what AF suggested

CoilRegret · 03/04/2014 16:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Pleasejustgo · 03/04/2014 16:25

Are you sure your BIL actually I as wealthy as he makes out? Sounds to me as though he probably doesn't have the funds and is too up his own arse to admit it.