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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

mortified at BIL and reaction to request for loan

240 replies

vexedveg · 03/04/2014 00:31

I have name changed for this.
I was not sure where to put this thread but hoping this is the right section

I want to give a bit of background to avoid drip feeding so bear with me. This outpouring is lonnnnnnnnnng!

DP and I dont have a lot of spare money - less so these days like alot of people but we are lucky to have got by to date with no credit cards, no loans and no debts ( apart from mortgage).. We lead a relatively frugal life and are v careful with money - dont really go out alot and our last family holiday was 4 years ago (was able to combine it with a work related trip to keep flight costs down). I buy most of our clothes from charity shops / car boot sales. We do however make sure DD gets things like swimming classes, membership of a running club.

we have one DD and pg with number 2.

I dont come from a well off background but my family is close and all help each other out as much as possible, whenever we can. I struggle with asking for any kind of help from people, including my family and have never owed anyone any money. Personally i find it really hard but also know i have been very lucky not to be in that position until now.

DP's family is somewhat different and alot more money focused. He is the youngest son with 2 older brothers, very successful in the financial sector in the city. They lead very different lifestyles to us and refer to us as the paupers and black sheep of the family. I have never had a v good relationship with eldest BIL, just very different people with different views and values. He once told me that i "should go home to the other f**king gypos". His words not mine. I am Irish.

He however is always offering to help us out and has repeatedly told DP that if there is ever anything he can do help out -including with money - to just ask, he is there for him and nothing would be too much. He always tells us how many millions he has in bank, how much he makes a month etc etc. He has laughed at our flat -saying that its overall value wouldnt even cover the value of his broom cupboard.
We never ever have asked for anything ( and even paid his share of MIL's funeral a few years ago when he refused to contribute.)

We both work FT earning just less than average salary each and live in a small flat in a building with other home buyers and some housing association tenants.

2 weeks ago we were presented with an unexpected bill for 25 k each for compulsory work in our area on subsidence - a bolt out of the blue and a total shock. We do not have those kinds of savings and my family in no way has access to that kind of money.

DP's first thought was to ask BIL to help out and I refused, wanting to explore all other options first. Have spoken to council about a repayment plan and tried to look at how to balance our books and fit in the repayments over the 2 years we have been given as well as cope with my mat leave. DP finally persuaded me that he would ask BIL for a LOAN for 1/3 amount which we would repay with interest- not to be given it as a handout or to keep.

We spent ages coming up with an email, basically explaining the situation and stating that we would really appreciate the loan, would repay it as soon as we could, how hard we both found it to ask but of course, if it wasnt possible it was not a problem and we would go back to the bank. i honestly felt sick writing it and v v embarassed at sending it.

I was dreading his reply but didnt expect what we got.

He didnt get back for a week, fair enough. When he did, he told us that he has been trying to find ways to get us out of paying at all, speaking to the council and pretending to be our debt adviser. he told them we are in massive debt and will not be paying.
he says he wont give us a loan as he thinks this would be propping up our lifestyle, that this will be a valuable life lesson and that he thinks we should be supporting the banks through a loan from them. He also said that he found it strange that we would not be able to find that amount as it is such a small amount. He also sad he was angry that we would approach him in the first place and it wasnt his fault that I came from "tinkers and layabout" stock. He said he was embarassed that his own brother would have to stoop so low as to ask for a handout. We didnt.

we have since found out that BIL shared our email with other family members in a - "jeez - what are they like" and "cant quite believe I have a brother so low on the social rung"

i feel very hurt and embarassed. Not at that he isnt going to give us a loan but at what he said. DP is shocked that when he finally had to ask for something, this is what has happened. I am also angry that even when he knew how hard we found it to go cap in hand for a loan, he shared this and is basically making a laugh of us behind our backs.

I suppose i am not really asking for advice - we will get through it somehow but wanted somewhere to vent.

well done for making it to the end... Smile

OP posts:
glastocat · 03/04/2014 01:11

No advice, but he sounds like a complete arsehole. I bet he doesnt have the money to lend you and this is his way of blustering his way out of it. I'm afraid I would tear him a new one for the 'tinkers and layabouts' comment alone. I'm sure anyone who was on the receiving end of that little diatribe is also thinking what an arsehole he is too.

applepearorangebear · 03/04/2014 01:13

Ugh - what a completely vile person your BIL is. You and your family sound lovely though - so thank heavens DH has you all and you have each other Smile

I hope that you get the financial issue sorted out soon - have you checked whether your building insurance covers situations like this? - and congratulations on your pregnancy Thanks At least (silver lining...) you now have every excuse never to see BIL's tight, racist little face again.

BillyBanter · 03/04/2014 01:13

I was wondering that Linerunner.

Maybe a final email (copied in to others) saying if you had realised he was hard up for cash you would never have asked and ever so sorry for the humiliation he must have experienced having his financial embarrassment brought to light by your request.

msmoss · 03/04/2014 01:14

I wonder if BIL is actually as rolling in it as he makes out (he may well be in a well paid job but that doesn't mean he doesn't piss everything he earns up the wall so to speak).

Not that it matters he sounds like a total arse. If this is the way he behaves then I'm sure there are plenty of people in the family who also know this and will be thinking worse of his behaviour than they are of you and your DP.

MiscellaneousAssortment · 03/04/2014 01:17

What a cruel and superior arse - nothing but an immoral shyster. I am hating you on your behalf Flowers

vexedveg · 03/04/2014 01:19

Billybanter - we are speaking to bank to see if we can either get any equity out or extend mortgage. The 25k is about 1/4 of value of flat tho'.

Have spoken to CAB and they have advised to go back to council to negotiate a longer term repayment plan. We are not only ones in this position - others in area are struggling with it too. There are some small grants available but we were advised that our salaries would put us out of being means tested. DP has signed up with bank agency to try and get extra shifts. That is not an option for me (work for v small charity).

We found out that others in family had been told as an aunt accidentially copied us into her reply which said that this was none of her business and for BIL not to include in any more communiation about it.

BILs have strange, very competitive relationship. No-one has ever complained of this particular BIL's behaviour - they all sit and talk about money, profit etc when together and laugh when we cant compete on their level. I dont want to.

OP posts:
BillyBanter · 03/04/2014 01:20

Thing is msmoss, is it sounds like he tries to dodge paying anything and everything he can. A real stingy bastard. Of course it may be he spends more than he earns on status symbols so has to be cheap elsewhere.

I wonder if he thought he was fine to display his status symbol of being able to offer financial largesse because he was entirely confident your DH would never ever ask. Which he wouldn't not have had it not been for this.

BillyBanter · 03/04/2014 01:22

The aunt sounds the closest to decent out of the lot.

accidentally my arse! Whether out of good intentions or malicious ones I don't know.

Lottiedoubtie · 03/04/2014 01:22

That wasn't an accident OP, that Aunt is a good person and on your side I'd say.

vexedveg · 03/04/2014 01:24

I honestly dont think he is hard up for money. He is CEO of quite a large financial consultancy firm. I know much wealth may be tied up in things and not easily accessible but dont think that is an issue given many other area of his lifestyle.

i dont want to sound as if i begrudge him any of that and of course - he can spend his money as he wants. That is not the issue for me.

I do like the idea of reversing it and saying how sorry i am to have put him in an awkward situation when he has no money but think I will leave it to DP to decide how best he wants to respond.

OP posts:
sunbathe · 03/04/2014 01:24

Might it be worth going to CAB and getting their advice?

Do you have a Credit Union in the area for a cheaper loan, maybe?

vexedveg · 03/04/2014 01:28

Aunt is a decent sort and most grounded of them. She is MIL's sister and also IRish - not that that would make me biased or anything! Smile

OP posts:
EverythingCounts · 03/04/2014 01:29

Anyone with any sense who he appeared this with - like the aunt - will see him for the complete dick he is. Don't bother with him any more. Agree with going to CAB for advice.

vexedveg · 03/04/2014 01:33

yep - CAB was one of first points of call and have been in contact with them again a few times.

I have books filled with budgets, balances, ideas etc.

I hadnt thought of credit union tbh - good idea. will check that out.

OP posts:
BillyBanter · 03/04/2014 01:37

Then surely mil is Irish so bil its half Irish?

What a hateful man.

And I forgot about the bit where he lied on your behalf to the council. FFS.

BillyBanter · 03/04/2014 01:39

Wait do you have proof? Report him to the police!

I want to see him pay for his cuntery.

3mum · 03/04/2014 01:42

I'm so sorry that your BIL has behaved so appallingly. Not really a worthy human being is he.

I have to say though that this demand still seems funny to me. The council can't possibly expect ordinary people to be able to come up with that sort of money, especially at the moment.

I'd want to know why it isn't covered by insurance as subsidence usually is and if the council chose to self insure, can they really pass that on to you? I'd suggest you ask the council that question in writing and ask for a written reply citing chapter and verse.

Personally I'd be hiking straight down to your local paper to get a journalist on the case. It's a good story and they will undoubtedly pick it up and hopefully do some investigation round it. Just because the council makes the demand does not mean they are right. Even if they are right, two years seems a ridiculous time frame to come up with this amount of money.

Being really cynical, if all else fails, is it feasible for one of you to stop work so that you qualify for the grants? (recognising that it may be difficult to explain why you have stopped work (though stress caused by the bill seems like a good one) and that it may not be easy to get another job later on).

vexedveg · 03/04/2014 01:45

billy - he has forgetten about his irish roots conveniently.

i have yet to face contacting council about his dealings on our behalf. mortified about that tbh and DP is worried that it will cause us additionnal problems.

must admit both DP and I cried AlOT tonight and were at one stage contemplating a termination as an option to save money. We want to rule that out as in long term would only eat us up with possible regrets and resentment.

Interesting that none of rest of family have contacted us to either offer words of support, criticism of us nor comment on BIL. that might be happening without us knowing.

DP is away to bed - he's on early shift tomorrow.
I am going to through head there soon myself and try to get some respite from it. cant even have a gin Smile

OP posts:
vexedveg · 03/04/2014 01:52

3mum - thanks for ideas. will check our insurance more closely - we had to take out Buildings insurance through factoring of local housing association. (the building is local authority and previous owners of our flat bought through right to buy scheme)
council said as majority of tenants / residents of flats are still local authority that affected the rules?
not comfortable about going to the press - possibly other home owners will tho.
Billy -only evidence we have of him having gone to council is through his email.

OP posts:
YNK · 03/04/2014 01:55

Your bil may have money but he is morally and emotionally bankrupt!

Others are right in that the correct term for him is a cunt!

I think the aunt is a really good person to let you know the depth of his cuntery!!!

AdeleNazeem · 03/04/2014 01:56

vexed veg, that is so awful. I really feel for you. I have nothing constructive to add to the useful things people have said but i wanted to say...
you and your husband sound like bloody great people. A nurse and a charity worker too. Having read your first post and how you chose to live your life, frugally and with respect, I felt really sad that this BIL saw fit to humiliate you like this. What an idiot

BillyBanter · 03/04/2014 02:00

An admission of guilt! Of course he may be lying.

Please do speak to the council and ask if such a call was made.

And congratulations!

girloutofglasgow · 03/04/2014 02:04

Endorse 100% what 3mum posted above about the council's arbitrary demand for 25k - definitely worth getting the local paper involved. Your neighbours too - there should be strength in numbers. Also look into getting bill added onto mortgage.
Please no more desperate talk of the termination route - you two are the good guys and we need people like you to bring up the next decent honourable generation.
As you said at end of your original post - you will get through it together - bet you're so glad you're with the good brother!

saffronwblue · 03/04/2014 02:06

Seems like an awful situation and how awful to make yourselves ask only to be treated like this. What a horrible man. You and your partner sound very clear in your own values and should hold your heads up high.

saffronwblue · 03/04/2014 02:09

Oh and I would not engage by sympathising with his financial situation. Just maintain a dignified silence and finalise your detachment from the whole family (except for the aunt).